Overthrow the government?

[f6john]

Is that protected by the first amendment?  Alec Baldwin advocated the overthrow of the American government under Trump on tv last night and it wasn't SNL.

I understand free speech and maybe he has the right to "say" it? But at what point does the government have to step in to preserve the republic. He's just an actor so I guess his job is just to stir things up but he got a lot of applause for his statement. He was a speaker at a Democratic rally so I guess we just chalk it up to political theater?

[Cleaver]

Every Real American should boycott anything he appears in, and let everyone know there is a right and wrong way to make America great again.  Treason isn't a choice.

[Serk]

Interesting...

I did some googling to show this wasn't illegal, as it's protected free speech, and many of "us" have done just that many times when the other side was in charge.

However:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

[MarkT]

The new playbook for entitled lefties - think they can operate with a different rule set.  Madonna wants to blow up the white house.  Hillary breaks laws at will with no consequence.  Same for Obama and Holder. Trump just blusters and does nothing.

[Robert]

They are desperate we will more than likely hear more, but the comfort is when they rise up and speak we find out who they are. Most of the time they don't let their sentiments be made known for fear of reprisals.

Dianne Feinstein comes to mind and her China driver, looks proper on the outside not a nice person on the inside and now has diverted attention to herself and all the lies, and deceit is coming out.

Desperate times call for desperate measures they are watching the systematic destruction of a system that they tried to put in over the will of the people and the constitution. Only someone who is going to get something out of the situation would go so far as to risk their own personal well being.

Funny how the very system they are trying to overthrow is the very system that is given them the right to speak and a podium to do it on. I doubt if Trump had not been elected if anything anyone says would have made a difference.

[Jess from VA]

Interesting...

I did some googling to show this wasn't illegal, as it's protected free speech, and many of "us" have done just that many times when the other side was in charge.

However:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

In a practical sense, it comes down to just how effective your free speech is on overthrow.  

You can stand up on a box in public and jump up and down and yell yourself into a psychosis on the subject and it's just free speech (as it should be).

But if you start getting a following, and organizing, and arming, and planning, it then goes beyond free speech.

This is where the phrase..... Clear and Present Danger comes from. (a rationale for the limitation of free speech originated in a majority opinion written in 1919 by Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes)



He had some personal experience with insurrection (not that the South didn't have some legitimate grievances, outside of slavery).

During his senior year of college, at the outset of the American Civil War, Holmes enlisted in the fourth battalion, Massachusetts militia, then received a commission as first lieutenant in the Twentieth Regiment of Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry.  He saw much action, taking part in the Peninsula Campaign, the Battle of Fredricksburg and the Wilderness, suffering wounds at the Battle of Ball's Bluff, Antietam, and Chancellorsville, and suffered from a near-fatal case of dysentery.

[Daniel Meyer]

While I realize taking things out of context and blowing them out of proportion is "the in thing" nowadays, and I certainly don't agree with Mr. Baldwin's political leanings...the statement referenced in this thread was literally surrounded by Baldwin stating we change our government in an orderly, peaceful, and defined fashion here in the United States and we should "overthrow the government by voting in all new folks" (he may have said by "voting out all the existing folks"...honestly I wasn't listening that hard...yanno...celebs don't carry all that much weight/credibility with me)...

Anyway, yah, context people. Quit letting the highly edited quotes and sound bytes yank ya around by your balls. Banging a cheap drum is beneath dignified discussion of the problems...

The quote:
"The way we implement change in America is through elections. We change governments here at home in an orderly and formal way," he said. "In that orderly and formal way and lawful way, we need to overthrow the government of the United States under Donald Trump."

[scooperhsd]

We may or may not need to replace Trump, but the current Congress is the best reason yet why we NEED term limits.

[Oss]

I recall the magic words were   BY FORCE OR VIOLENCE


Therefore Anti-fa could all rot in Guantanamo as far as I am concered but as was said  Voting is how it should be done, Speaking, writing seeking political discourse and solutions thru elections are all protected speech

Those who advocate or participate in Rioting, killing or rampaging  do so at their own risk and IMHO no tears should be shed for them when they are put down by any means necessary to protect life and liberty of the innocent

We live in a Republic, do it the right way or pay the consequences

[scooperhsd]

I recall the magic words were   BY FORCE OR VIOLENCE


Therefore Anti-fa could all rot in Guantanamo as far as I am concered but as was said  Voting is how it should be done, Speaking, writing seeking political discourse and solutions thru elections are all protected speech

Those who advocate or participate in Rioting, killing or rampaging  do so at their own risk and IMHO no tears should be shed for them when they are put down by any means necessary to protect life and liberty of the innocent

We live in a Republic, do it the right way or pay the consequences

+1  !!!!

[rocketray]

Ben Franklin said you need to replace a government every 200 years as governments become stale and corrupt..plenty of the Founders quotes and free thinkers too are all for ditching governments that aren't working or are oppressive

[f6john]

I apologize for the lack of context. I do think "overthrow" was a very poor choice of word for vote them out of office.

[Daniel Meyer]

I apologize for the lack of context. I do think "overthrow" was a very poor choice of word for vote them out of office.

I'll agree with that for sure...I actually like the guy in some roles he's played ("The Shadow" and "Rock of Ages" come to mind) but otherwise think he's an idiot.

But make no mistake...this was also a deliberate choice of words so that it would get far more exposure then it deserves...and then the clickbait and trash news sites quoted or edited just so it would be even more controversial. None of that was accidental. Clicks make bucks. He is also, promoting his new talk show. A washed up celeb...desperately seeking audience. Gotta get on the inter-tubes for that.

We used to ridicule THAT part of the process...and relegate it to the tabloids/entertainment rags. Now we the people tend to buy it...hook, line, and sinker, as main-line, valid relevant news. Particularly if it supports our particular view or points out the stupidity of "the other side".

When ya get to an end analysis...does *anybody* really care what the Baldwins (or the Kardashians or ?)  think about politics?

[Moonshot_1]

While I realize taking things out of context and blowing them out of proportion is "the in thing" nowadays, and I certainly don't agree with Mr. Baldwin's political leanings...the statement referenced in this thread was literally surrounded by Baldwin stating we change our government in an orderly, peaceful, and defined fashion here in the United States and we should "overthrow the government by voting in all new folks" (he may have said by "voting out all the existing folks"...honestly I wasn't listening that hard...yanno...celebs don't carry all that much weight/credibility with me)...

Anyway, yah, context people. Quit letting the highly edited quotes and sound bytes yank ya around by your balls. Banging a cheap drum is beneath dignified discussion of the problems...

The quote:
"The way we implement change in America is through elections. We change governments here at home in an orderly and formal way," he said. "In that orderly and formal way and lawful way, we need to overthrow the government of the United States under Donald Trump."

I heard Baldwin's quote, in context, and thought to myself, "Isn't that what we did in Nov. 2016?" "Overthrow" the government in an orderly and formal and lawful way? I didn't see conservative chasing Democrats out of restaurants and theaters.

[Bighead]

While I realize taking things out of context and blowing them out of proportion is "the in thing" nowadays, and I certainly don't agree with Mr. Baldwin's political leanings...the statement referenced in this thread was literally surrounded by Baldwin stating we change our government in an orderly, peaceful, and defined fashion here in the United States and we should "overthrow the government by voting in all new folks" (he may have said by "voting out all the existing folks"...honestly I wasn't listening that hard...yanno...celebs don't carry all that much weight/credibility with me)...

Anyway, yah, context people. Quit letting the highly edited quotes and sound bytes yank ya around by your balls. Banging a cheap drum is beneath dignified discussion of the problems...

The quote:
"The way we implement change in America is through elections. We change governments here at home in an orderly and formal way," he said. "In that orderly and formal way and lawful way, we need to overthrow the government of the United States under Donald Trump."

I heard Baldwin's quote, in context, and thought to myself, "Isn't that what we did in Nov. 2016?" "Overthrow" the government in an orderly and formal and lawful way? I didn't see conservative chasing Democrats out of restaurants and theaters.

+1 

[Raider]

Not a fan of him or his view, but he specifically called for no violence.

"It is time to overthrow the government of Donald Trump -- not in a violent way or unlawful way -- but it must be overthrown nonetheless."

Nothing to see here.

[Jess from VA]

Not a fan of him or his view, but he specifically called for no violence.

"It is time to overthrow the government of Donald Trump -- not in a violent way or unlawful way -- but it must be overthrown nonetheless."

Nothing to see here.

Still, this is a face begging to be punched.

[Gavin_Sons]

Not a fan of him or his view, but he specifically called for no violence.

"It is time to overthrow the government of Donald Trump -- not in a violent way or unlawful way -- but it must be overthrown nonetheless."

Nothing to see here.

Still, this is a face begging to be punched.

Now now Jess, let's not revisit the "when is it ok" thread. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Ben Franklin said you need to replace a government every 200 years as governments become stale and corrupt..plenty of the Founders quotes and free thinkers too are all for ditching governments that aren't working or are oppressive

I agree.  We just replaced our Republican side with fresh members that didnt grow up in politics.  NOW its time for the democrats to GO! 

[Crackerborn]

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

George Washington's farewell address published in 1796.

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=15&page=transcript

[Safety Steve]

The fact that the democrats clapped for the overthrow of the government just shows not dumb they are.... Hey democrats you are the government to, when they say overthrow they mean everyone, get them all out, the one thing that Trump's being in office has showed is the  2 party system does not work.  It isn't what is good for the country it is " No that was not my parties idea so I'm not going to vote for it because then that is a win for the other party.

How these life long public servants are millionaires that is what I want to known...

[Robert]

Well there you heard it from a platform of inclusiveness to this statement, at least she is finally honest in one statement.

Nancy Pelosi endorses "collateral damage" against Americans who don't share her views. https://youtu.be/4i0d2-y35Gc

[Bighead]

One reason euthanasia should be legal is that old useless waste of air.

[DIGGER]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

[Gavin_Sons]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

[Crackerborn]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

Sadly, they breed and some actually know how to vote, for the hand that feeds them.

[Michvalk]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

So, you think liberals don't have guns, and a stock of ammo? Your in for a sad awakening

[Gavin_Sons]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

So, you think liberals don't have guns, and a stock of ammo? Your in for a sad awakening

The same people that call for gun control and need safe places? I'm not very worried 

[Willow]

Some talk of a Civil War........

On one side you have 3 trillion bullets
On the other side....they don't know which bathroom they want to use

So, you think liberals don't have guns, and a stock of ammo? Your in for a sad awakening

The same people that call for gun control and need safe places? I'm not very worried 

Civil war, if it comes to that.  The strategy of the liberals is not to outgun the conservatives.  The strategy involves gaining control of the police and military forces.  Those will do the outgunning.

[Jess from VA]

John Brown Gun Club(s)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_Revolt

[rocketray]

If you read the Declaration of Independence....it first lays out when people have the right to abolish their government....