Trying to educate

[solo1]

some people who I know.

I posted this on Facebook. I would hope that they see it.  An outlook thinking that we can get along without an Armed Forces is wrong and maybe I can change some minds. Maybe not. Any way, here it is.

BTW, this is preaching to the choir here.



November 11th, 2018, 11AM. 100 years ago the Great War To End All Wars ended. Since then more wars have come and gone. Many people today know little about these wars. Many think that we should have no military and that people will live in peace. Many are living in a fairy tale. One of the prime duties of the Commander-in Chief, our president, is protect us in a 'common defense'. When ordered, our soldiers, sailors, Marines, and "Coasties" have done just that.

While war is terrible, protecting our Republic will always be an active situation until fairy tales come true. I wish that more people would understand that. It would most certainly lead to less protests when the national budget includes sufficient funds for a 'common defense"

[Serk]

Wow, scary that some folks think we shouldn't have a military to defend our nation!

"Providing for the common defense" is one of the few things that we spend tax money on that's actually constitutional...

[old2soon]

             Having Served Proudly I know of what you speak Wayne. Do NOT take this as gospel but I've read more than once only 1% of the population actually serves. Given those figures-if indeed they are accurate-it makes sense that some of the 99% that have NOT served would indeed be fairy tale belivin snow flakes that think/hope/believe/ Any Military isn't needed. Course IF the snow flakes git their wish/demand/hope of NO Military And the missles and planes started flying over the U S of A and Paratroopers started landing and the assault boats started hitting our shores and disgorging hundreds of thousands of troops maybe the snow flakes could prostate themselves and offer up whatever they have in the hopes the enemy do not kill them til later.        Wayne-the snow flakes that do Not want a military ARE the same ones who want to get rid of big rigs-18 wheelers-and trains. BUT that's another story for another thread on another day.  RIDE SAFE.

[G-Man]

Wow, scary that some folks think we shouldn't have a military to defend our nation!

"Providing for the common defense" is one of the few things that we spend tax money on that's actually constitutional...

But not only are we providing for OUR common defense, we are providing for the common defense of the world.  The folks that think we don't need to spend on the military leave that piece of the pie out.  They see that other countries spend much less on defense, refusing to see that their costs are low because our costs are high.  THEN, I hear how Trump is an idiot for making the other NATO nations pay more so we can pay less.  Go figure!   

 

[Kaahn]

Doesn't need to be as extreme as Military vs. No military.


We'd certainly do better if we cut the military costs of this country, a ton of that money is going to waste.

[..]

Doesn't need to be as extreme as Military vs. No military.


We'd certainly do better if we cut the military costs of this country, a ton of that money is going to waste.

Where do you suggest we cut costs?

Domestic or international? Or both?

[Kaahn]

Definitely international.

..and NASA

My suggestions are poop tho 

[Gavin_Sons]

Definitely international.

..and NASA

My suggestions are poop tho 

  I would have to agree that your suggestions are poop. We need to raise the military budget. I don't want our guys going into a fair fight, I want them to have the best and most powerful weapons made. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either anti American or does not belong here and they should find a new country that fits their ideas.

[MAD6Gun]

Definitely international.

..and NASA

My suggestions are poop tho 

  I would have to agree that your suggestions are poop. We need to raise the military budget. I don't want our guys going into a fair fight, I want them to have the best and most powerful weapons made. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either anti American or does not belong here and they should find a new country that fits their ideas.

Well said Gavin. I saw a quote once. No idea who said it but it goes like so.  "If you find yourself in a fair fight. Your tatics SUCK".  Our military is paid to kill people and break things. They should have the best weapons and vehicles that money can buy.....

[solo1]

I belong to the Army Association.  I get a monthly magazine bringing me up to date on Army expenditures and actions.

Right now, today, our Army by their admission, is falling behind Russia and China. The cuts during the Obama administration have hurt. At present the Army is upgrading all equipment which is the way to go as they can't bring in new. The Abrams tank has a bigger motor for example, The Huey has been upgraded three times, the artillery is being fitted with longer barrels for higher velocities, there now is a bullet resistant ceramic vest that will stop 30 cal rifle bullets. Unfortunately, the Army is behind in cyber attack protection. They are also 6500 personnel short of meeting their recruitment goals due to the upcoming millenials who won't enlist and the obesity of many who cannot meet the physical requirements.

However, as noted above, the Army has always been depended on for armored equipment and tactics, where they are now short.  I wouldn't think that the Marines would have that particular problem since the Marines are based more on the basic man on the ground war fare.

Reading between the lines, they, the Army and the grunts, like our president. Obviously, they can't say it.

[JimmyG]

I certainly am not in the know when it comes to our military capabilities, but I did learn and discuss with brothers at arms during my military stints, what our military is capable of. The public is not aware of what we can do. I saw and my unit saw stuff that was right out of the fiction books at the time, Before I was shipped to Nam.  We have capabilities many people would not believe. Rules of war have kept many things from ever being used.  Our only limiting capability are the traitors in Washington.  It has been said before, and is still true today, our soldiers are wonderful, our politicians are rotten.  That, is why we lose when we lose. 

[scooperhsd]

George Bush (the first), having been a military officer (at one time the youngest Ensign in the fleet), knew exactly how he should use the military - politicians set the end goal, then let the Generals and Admirals decide how to accomplish them. You can say much the same about W (his son).

I remember reading an article by an allied officer about our troops in action / camp life (it may have been here). He was impressed at how professional our soldiers were on moving from off duty to full combat in minutes when needed.

I don't think I'm exagerating to say we could create the island of Korea if it would come down to it. I'm also thankful that we have never had to go that far.

I'm surprised that military resources aren't being used more when we have a natural disaster (earthquakes, hurricanes). At least for initial response.  You have a pool of well trained, disciplined men and women, with all the resources to support them.

[solo1]

The Army is trying to transition from fighting limited guerilla type engagements in rural settings to training for suburban fighting.  There will be an emphasis on changing tactics and using more robotics in supplying munitions and more sophisticated medical support in the field. 

The Army is much more sophisticated than when I was in, no resemblance at all.  Even the physical requirements have increased  a lot.  Thoughts are also about going back to OD and 'pinks' to more resemble the uniforms of WWII and Korea.  As the Sergeant Major of the Army said,  people associate WWII uniforms better with the soldier.

The Marines, IMHO, are way ahead on this thinking, they don't need to change.
 

[Chrisj CMA]

Doesn't need to be as extreme as Military vs. No military.


We'd certainly do better if we cut the military costs of this country, a ton of that money is going to waste.

Maybe Id have an ounce agreement with you if you were only talking about fraud waste and abuse, that needs to be eliminated so we can afford to spend what needs to be spent.

[old2soon]

          Along these lines I saw something today I had NOT seen since they were spooling up for Desert Shield and then Desert Storm. I saw an Entire train dedicated to hauling Abrams Tanks and they were headed East from Willow Springs Mo. Little ways down they can swing south. They were split bout equal tween desert sand and jungle green paint jobs. Sort of an F Y I more than anything. RIDE SAFE.

[scooperhsd]

The Army is trying to transition from fighting limited guerilla type engagements in rural settings to training for suburban fighting.  There will be an emphasis on changing tactics and using more robotics in supplying munitions and more sophisticated medical support in the field. 

The Army is much more sophisticated than when I was in, no resemblance at all.  Even the physical requirements have increased  a lot.  Thoughts are also about going back to OD and 'pinks' to more resemble the uniforms of WWII and Korea.  As the Sergeant Major of the Army said,  people associate WWII uniforms better with the soldier.

The Marines, IMHO, are way ahead on this thinking, they don't need to change.
 

I know for an absolute fact (having spent time at McDonald Douglas in St Louis before I went to Pensacola) that the Navy ALONE spent over $100 million on cruise missles on the first night of Desert Storm, nevermind the billions spent on ships and aircraft, plus what the Air Force spent (also in the billions), and what it took to put Army and Marine Corps troops in Kuwait for their assault.

Going to war in today's times is not for the weak of wallet.

[The Walrus]

Doesn't need to be as extreme as Military vs. No military.


We'd certainly do better if we cut the military costs of this country, a ton of that money is going to waste.

Maybe Id have an ounce agreement with you if you were only talking about fraud waste and abuse, that needs to be eliminated so we can afford to spend what needs to be spent.

I agree on the waste part. As a Division Officer in the Navy I was responsible for my divisions budget. If we had a 'surplus' at the end of the fiscal year we were required to spend it: Whether we needed anything or not. The theory is that maybe next year we will need all that money so we better not reduce our budget.  We spent $10k one year on boots and cold weather gear we didn't need. Kept it in case we needed to trade with another ship. Seems we always needed one more bucket of Haze Gray (to keep us underway) paint.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Doesn't need to be as extreme as Military vs. No military.


We'd certainly do better if we cut the military costs of this country, a ton of that money is going to waste.

Maybe Id have an ounce agreement with you if you were only talking about fraud waste and abuse, that needs to be eliminated so we can afford to spend what needs to be spent.

I agree on the waste part. As a Division Officer in the Navy I was responsible for my divisions budget. If we had a 'surplus' at the end of the fiscal year we were required to spend it: Whether we needed anything or not. The theory is that maybe next year we will need all that money so we better not reduce our budget.  We spent $10k one year on boots and cold weather gear we didn't need. Kept it in case we needed to trade with another ship. Seems we always needed one more bucket of Haze Gray (to keep us underway) paint.

I was only a lowly E-5. But I'm sure all of us ex-Navy have seen plenty of this. I would imagine waste is rampant throughout all the military and all government for that matter. It just seems to be accepted by the system.

[solo1]

I saw the same in the VA back in the '50's.  Although the patient count was less than normal,  the count was left high in order to keep budget money.

Reading the Army News and all of the comments from high ranking officers, I think that times have changed. It looks like the Army is getting frugal and less wasteful.  There's a big emphasis on better accounting and less waste.

[JimmyG]

I believe the excessive waste and the fraud is a by product of having to deal with politicians and their methods.  seems to me, any well trained soldier understands the need for being frugal with your, " stuff".
There are not many of you WWII or for that matter, Korea vets left around to tell about how you used anything and everything to get by.  Being in the field is nothing like being on a ship, or back at the base. Not saying anything derogatory about them either, thank God for their support when you out in the middle of no where. It takes everyone to fight battles.  You don't waste in the jungle or out in the desert on a roll.  No, it seems to be human nature , but more so if you have to deal with politicians, that fraud and waste are rampant sitting back at the NCO club throwing back a few cocktails. Must be a lot worse in Washington trying to get anything done for your troops. 

I am guilty of deal making myself in Viet Nam.  My sister sent me a package, that I received out in the jungle on one of our 45 day commitments. It had several Jiffy Pop popcorn thingies in it. Well the word got out and who comes to see me? One of the most powerful men in our company, the head cook. Yep, we had a cook out in the jungle. We buried the cook truck in a trench everywhere we moved to within our NDP, but that's a whole different story.  He asked what I wanted for some Jiffy pop popcorn. I told him a big thick steak for each of my medics, three of us, and one for the communications crew, four of them. done deal.....delivered raw in a package to me, we built a fire and roasted steaks.  So yeah, I'm guilty too.

[phideux]

Definitely international.

..and NASA

My suggestions are poop tho 

  I would have to agree that your suggestions are poop. We need to raise the military budget. I don't want our guys going into a fair fight, I want them to have the best and most powerful weapons made. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either anti American or does not belong here and they should find a new country that fits their ideas.

Actually we do have the best of the best. The big problem is/or was politicians and leaders keeping our armed forces from using what we have with stupid ROEs. War is about you and your enemy killing each other and tearing crap up until one side is tired of getting their people killed and their crap torn up, so the give.
If we are going to fight a war, let our folks kill people and snuggle crap up. Don't worry about collateral damage, property damage, politician or public perception. Go back to the old ways. How did we defeat Germany???? We carpet bombed their country relentlessly, killing them, their families, blowing up their houses, schools , churches, everything until they had enough. If they could have gotten here, they would have done the same to us. How did we defeat Japan? Bombed the crap out of Tokyo, then nuked 2 of their cities, killing the soldiers, their families and blowing all their crap to hell. If they could have gotten here, they would have done the same to us.
Want to save money?? We don't need to have our military all over the world, stretched thin. Keep our military here, someone snuggles with us, we can launch enough crap from here to take them out, long range bombers, ICBMs whatever. Also stop footing the bill for things like NATO and the UN. NATO has 29 countries, yet we pay the majority of tab, we should pay 1/29th of the tab, or get out. The UN has 193 countries yet we pay the majority of the tab, we should pay 1/193rd of the tab, or get out.
Stop all foreign aid, bring all our troops home, protect our country and our borders, let the rest of the world worry about itself for awhile.

[scooperhsd]

We tried that before - that's part of what led to WWII.

I do think more of our allies and the rest of the world should pickup more of their defense bill , UN bill, etc.

[JimmyG]

But,but,but, what will the majority of the politicians do if they can't stick their noses into something they know nothing about?  How will they get rich off of behind closed door deals if they are removed from the equation? 

[old2soon]

But,but,but, what will the majority of the politicians do if they can't stick their noses into something they know nothing about?  How will they get rich off of behind closed door deals if they are removed from the equation? 

                       WHO gives a flyin snuggle? As a French person said a Long time ago-let em eat cake.  Politicians are the ones pushin fer 15% alky in our gasoline Even AFTER all the Mfgs Stated it WILL void warranties-15% alky. WHEN ZACKLY did the politicians become smarter than the Engineers that designed the stuff?  And B T W-far past TIME to install TERM LIMITS. RIDE SAFE.

[JimmyG]

But,but,but, they don't like us