Helathcare, I'm Confused

[G-Man]

The number ONE issue in the midterms and the issue the Dems are pounding already for 2020.  So, what the heck was the ACA all about?

We kept hearing that 30 million Americans were uninsured leading up to 2008.  Obama made it the biggest issue in the world and we watched our gov't fall all over itself with bribes, name calling, power grabs, and of course, LIES.

Its roll out costed hundreds of millions and failed.  Americans were dropped from their plans and were forced onto exchanges that cost thousands more than they were paying when they were supposed to pay less.

10 years later, it's become an issue again and I heard Bernie say that 29 million Americans don't have healthcare insurance.  So, to insure ONE million people, we rocked the world of tens of million.

As far as I know, the ACA is still law.  I believe the GOP only got rid of the mandatory fine for not buying expensive insurance, but that shouldn't stop people who need insurance from obtaining it.  So, what's the problem?  Why didn't this wonderful law insure all those 30 million who needed it?  Why, after so much garbage and expense, is it not solving the problem?  I know it's still in effect.  A friend of mine got insurance on the exchange just last month (after he got sick by the way so he really didn't buy insurance, he's paying a lot in premiums to pay a little less for the actual service) and says he's gonna drop it when he's better because it's too expensive.

So, where do we go from here?  One party messed the whole thing up and the other party can't come up with a solution at all.  And, the party that messed it up is running on it again. 

Heaven help us.
 

[Serk]

The spin from the other side is that Obamacare was a wonderful step in the right direction, and would have been a resounding success if it weren't for those darn pesky evil Republicans blocking it at every turn and preventing it from being as successful as it could be.

So now the only solution is full communist health care (I.E. Single Payer or "Medicare for all").

I said from the beginning Obamacare was designed to not only fail but bring our entire health care system to its knees so that even regular people would be willing to accept full communist healthcare.

...sometimes I hate it when I'm right. 

[¿spoom]

ACA was an expensive joke, and the Dems knew it. They didn't have/want ANY outside involvement and couldn't get Single Payer, Universal, whatever healthcare passed because there wasn't enough unanimous support within their own party, either.
So they bought a lemon, and figured the country would spend whatever was needed and change whatever details were the worst, as they slowly ratchet clicked towards the inevitable goal. They didn't think they'd lose both houses in the first election cycles after Obama's election. Obama was the 6 year placeholder to prevent anything from changing. They HAD, however already counted on Obama's 3rd term with the Hildebeast's victory, and that's why they're going insane now. 

[¿spoom]

The spin from the other side is that Obamacare was a wonderful step in the right direction, and would have been a resounding success if it weren't for those darn pesky evil Republicans blocking it at every turn and preventing it from being as successful as it could be.

So now the only solution is full communist health care (I.E. Single Payer or "Medicare for all").

I said from the beginning Obamacare was designed to not only fail but bring our entire health care system to its knees so that even regular people would be willing to accept full communist healthcare.

...sometimes I hate it when I'm right. 

Exactly right, though I don't think universal healthcare would be as bad as what we have now. The key is how to pay for it. A US version of "single payer" would still be a joke, like Bernie's "medicare for all" crappola. I don't know anyone on Medicare that still isn't carrying supplemental insurance or on public aid. The people who think that Berniecare would somehow be free healthcare are those who are fully indoctrinated in the "they guy behind me's getting the tab" mindset, and Bernie is a perfect example. His Medicare for all would still end up like the current system. Some would pay extra so that some would pay none. 

[..]

Medicare is equally F'ED UP.

[G-Man]

The ACA has nothing in it that actually lowers the cost of providing healthcare.  Plain and simple.  A CT scan still costs whatever is usual and customary in your area.  Certain new drugs are still very expensive.  The Dr. still needs to clear a certain amount to cover his overhead, staff, and M4 convertible.

I remember that certain items that promoted business were specifically excluded like allowing insurance to be sold, and treatment be sought, across state lines. 

But it was supposed to provide affordable healthcare coverage for all, yet 10 years later the people are no better off.

And they were able to run on this issue, and are running on it for 2020, and they haven't presented one policy they would change or institute to make healthcare cheaper or insure everyone.  The medicare for all thing is unaffordable in a country the size of ours.  The countries Bernie keeps comparing us to are one tenth our size and much smaller, and they don't have to fund a military that protects the world (or even come up with their own share of NATO or contribute to stationing our military all across Europe and the world. 

We need bigger and better ideas from bigger and better people (no short people aloud  )

[¿spoom]

The ACA has nothing in it that actually lowers the cost of providing healthcare.  Plain and simple.  A CT scan still costs whatever is usual and customary in your area.  Certain new drugs are still very expensive.  The Dr. still needs to clear a certain amount to cover his overhead, staff, and M4 convertible.

I remember that certain items that promoted business were specifically excluded like allowing insurance to be sold, and treatment be sought, across state lines. 

But it was supposed to provide affordable healthcare coverage for all, yet 10 years later the people are no better off.

And they were able to run on this issue, and are running on it for 2020, and they haven't presented one policy they would change or institute to make healthcare cheaper or insure everyone.  The medicare for all thing is unaffordable in a country the size of ours.  The countries Bernie keeps comparing us to are one tenth our size and much smaller, and they don't have to fund a military that protects the world (or even come up with their own share of NATO or contribute to stationing our military all across Europe and the world. 

We need bigger and better ideas from bigger and better people (no short people aloud  )

Perhaps you've hit the solution? Stop sending our money elsewhere and only spend it on universal healthcare and paying down the debt. Fund healthcare primarily with a consumption tax (NO EXEMPTIONS) so that the guy buying a canoe pays the same tax % as the one buying a yacht. Funny how healthcare is about the ONLY thing that there's never money for unless you're "special", and special is a moving target.

[..]

The ACA has nothing in it that actually lowers the cost of providing healthcare.  Plain and simple.  A CT scan still costs whatever is usual and customary in your area.  Certain new drugs are still very expensive.  The Dr. still needs to clear a certain amount to cover his overhead, staff, and M4 convertible.

I remember that certain items that promoted business were specifically excluded like allowing insurance to be sold, and treatment be sought, across state lines. 

But it was supposed to provide affordable healthcare coverage for all, yet 10 years later the people are no better off.

And they were able to run on this issue, and are running on it for 2020, and they haven't presented one policy they would change or institute to make healthcare cheaper or insure everyone.  The medicare for all thing is unaffordable in a country the size of ours.  The countries Bernie keeps comparing us to are one tenth our size and much smaller, and they don't have to fund a military that protects the world (or even come up with their own share of NATO or contribute to stationing our military all across Europe and the world. 

We need bigger and better ideas from bigger and better people (no short people aloud  )

Perhaps you've hit the solution? Stop sending our money elsewhere and only spend it on universal healthcare and paying down the debt. Fund healthcare primarily with a consumption tax (NO EXEMPTIONS) so that the guy buying a canoe pays the same tax % as the one buying a yacht. Funny how healthcare is about the ONLY thing that there's never money for unless you're "special", and special is a moving target.

Consumption tax. Be careful what you wish for.

Europeans have this kind of tax AND IT WAS ADDED to the regular income tax.

In the UK Value Added tax is now generally 20%. Raised from 17%.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates

Govt will spend as much as they can screw out those taxed +  A LOT MORE.

[¿spoom]

The ACA has nothing in it that actually lowers the cost of providing healthcare.  Plain and simple.  A CT scan still costs whatever is usual and customary in your area.  Certain new drugs are still very expensive.  The Dr. still needs to clear a certain amount to cover his overhead, staff, and M4 convertible.

I remember that certain items that promoted business were specifically excluded like allowing insurance to be sold, and treatment be sought, across state lines. 

But it was supposed to provide affordable healthcare coverage for all, yet 10 years later the people are no better off.

And they were able to run on this issue, and are running on it for 2020, and they haven't presented one policy they would change or institute to make healthcare cheaper or insure everyone.  The medicare for all thing is unaffordable in a country the size of ours.  The countries Bernie keeps comparing us to are one tenth our size and much smaller, and they don't have to fund a military that protects the world (or even come up with their own share of NATO or contribute to stationing our military all across Europe and the world. 

We need bigger and better ideas from bigger and better people (no short people aloud  )

Perhaps you've hit the solution? Stop sending our money elsewhere and only spend it on universal healthcare and paying down the debt. Fund healthcare primarily with a consumption tax (NO EXEMPTIONS) so that the guy buying a canoe pays the same tax % as the one buying a yacht. Funny how healthcare is about the ONLY thing that there's never money for unless you're "special", and special is a moving target.

Consumption tax. Be careful what you wish for.

Europeans have this kind of tax AND IT WAS ADDED to the regular income tax.

In the UK Value Added tax is now generally 20%. Raised from 17%.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates

Govt will spend as much as they can screw out those taxed +  A LOT MORE.

Understood, but I don't see any other way to even TRY and deal with the current system where 50% of the population pay no Federal Income Tax so they could care less when one party threatens to double it for "rich people" to hand it out for votes from the "working people". Only when everyone has some equal % skin in the game will there be a chance of turning this around. There are still ignorant voters who don't know that health insurance and health care are two different things.

[Robert]

All I know someone is getting some pretty good health care at my expense since I'm not getting it.

[..]

The ACA has nothing in it that actually lowers the cost of providing healthcare.  Plain and simple.  A CT scan still costs whatever is usual and customary in your area.  Certain new drugs are still very expensive.  The Dr. still needs to clear a certain amount to cover his overhead, staff, and M4 convertible.

I remember that certain items that promoted business were specifically excluded like allowing insurance to be sold, and treatment be sought, across state lines. 

But it was supposed to provide affordable healthcare coverage for all, yet 10 years later the people are no better off.

And they were able to run on this issue, and are running on it for 2020, and they haven't presented one policy they would change or institute to make healthcare cheaper or insure everyone.  The medicare for all thing is unaffordable in a country the size of ours.  The countries Bernie keeps comparing us to are one tenth our size and much smaller, and they don't have to fund a military that protects the world (or even come up with their own share of NATO or contribute to stationing our military all across Europe and the world. 

We need bigger and better ideas from bigger and better people (no short people aloud  )

Perhaps you've hit the solution? Stop sending our money elsewhere and only spend it on universal healthcare and paying down the debt. Fund healthcare primarily with a consumption tax (NO EXEMPTIONS) so that the guy buying a canoe pays the same tax % as the one buying a yacht. Funny how healthcare is about the ONLY thing that there's never money for unless you're "special", and special is a moving target.

Consumption tax. Be careful what you wish for.

Europeans have this kind of tax AND IT WAS ADDED to the regular income tax.

In the UK Value Added tax is now generally 20%. Raised from 17%.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-rates

Govt will spend as much as they can screw out those taxed +  A LOT MORE.

Understood, but I don't see any other way to even TRY and deal with the current system where 50% of the population pay no Federal Income Tax so they could care less when one party threatens to double it for "rich people" to hand it out for votes from the "working people". Only when everyone has some equal % skin in the game will there be a chance of turning this around. There are still ignorant voters who don't know that health insurance and health care are two different things.

Wouldn't some just get more benefits to cover their increased cost of living?

[..]

The scary part is knowing that many think that health care in some countries is free.

[Bighead]

The scary part is knowing that many think that health care in some countries is free.

Nothing is free......there are way more people riding the FREE train than pulling it these days and frankly I am getting tired of pulling it,and seeing able bodied people living on the government tit.

[phideux]

[/quote]
Understood, but I don't see any other way to even TRY and deal with the current system where 50% of the population pay no Federal Income Tax so they could care less when one party threatens to double it for "rich people" to hand it out for votes from the "working people". Only when everyone has some equal % skin in the game will there be a chance of turning this around. There are still ignorant voters who don't know that health insurance and health care are two different things.
[/quote]

You know how to turn this around???
The answer is in your statement where 50% of the population pays no Federal Income Tax.
Only allow the Tax Payers to vote. We would have a lot less idiots in office.
You want your say in the government?? Do your part to support the government.

[carolinarider09]

Understood, but I don't see any other way to even TRY and deal with the current system where 50% of the population pay no Federal Income Tax so they could care less when one party threatens to double it for "rich people" to hand it out for votes from the "working people". Only when everyone has some equal % skin in the game will there be a chance of turning this around. There are still ignorant voters who don't know that health insurance and health care are two different things.
[/quote]

You know how to turn this around???
The answer is in your statement where 50% of the population pays no Federal Income Tax.
Only allow the Tax Payers to vote. We would have a lot less idiots in office.
You want your say in the government?? Do your part to support the government.
[/quote]

Starship Troopers  -  If I remember correctly there were "citizens" and "taxpayers"  Citizens earned that right through federal service. 

[hubcapsc]

 > Only allow the Tax Payers to vote.

 >> there were "citizens" and "taxpayers"  Citizens earned that right through federal service.

"Contributors"...

-Mike