GM and Ford discontinuing car lineup

[cookiedough]

What are your all thoughts about Ford/GM getting rid of such popular cars as taurus, impala, lacrosse, and cruze, among others to concentrate on SUV and truck production, and going towards automatically driving cars with electric cars as well?   

What do I know though for when GM went bankrupt I really thought once the Government bailed them out they would scrap GMC truck lineup since is same thing as Chevrolet basically vs. sad they got rid of Pontiac for I thought that was more of a younger, more sporty looking of the bunch.

I think will be a HUGE mistake when gas goes over 3 bucks per gallon here locally since I know when gas was over 3 bucks per gallon a few years ago they were all complaining that truck/SUV sales were down being their more profitable bread and butter lineup. 

Plus,  people still want small/fuel efficient cars for transportation.  I do not really know of one small SUV with a 4 cylinder that gets over 30 avg mpg while most small cars get mid 30's for hwy. mpg nowadays.

I think this will favor toyota, honda, subaru, hyundai/kia and others if gas ever goes back up again or even now with gas cheap since they all have several small fuel efficient vehicles to pick from.  Variety is the spice of life since is nice to have one of each being fuel efficient car and large truck/SUV. 

I for one will NEVER buy an all electric (probably not hybrid either maybe?) or 50K on up truck/SUV  or self driving car.  I know it is coming, but probably not in my lifetime for me anyways.   I know vehicles now have lane departure assist and adaptive cruise control and blind spot monitoring which in certain circumstances is fine to have, but should still be able to turn them OFF and a lot of cars cannot disable them which is something I will look for having to have disable feature for beep, beep, beep is NOT my cup of tea if I go over the centerline/shoulder of the road line.   Adaptive cruise control is nice to have on long interstate trips though.

[scooperhsd]

I'm not going to shed any tears for them when they can't sell trucks when gas gets too high.

I'm not crazy about the self driving cars at all.

Adaptive cruise - THAT sounds useful. Lane departure assist is for those who just have to be (illegally) texting all the time.

I'll probably never buy an all electric or hybrid car  either, and if I need a truck, I'll go buy a used one at significant savings.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[sandy]

I agree with most of your post. I feel that electric cars will gain a place in our country. If a household has 2 vehicles, one could be electric. Charging them is much more efficient (cleaner) on the environment. SUVs and trucks are exempt from the CAFE fuel standards which might be why Detroit is deleting the car models. I too find it sad that cars are being deleted. They will regret that decision in a few years. Like you, I don't need all the new tech sensors, so my 25 year old F150 has all I need. I have no need to "upgrade" my truck.

[carolinarider09]

The problem is that electric cars do not provide a significant decrease in emissions (see link below)

"EVs and PHEVs running only on electricity have zero tailpipe emissions, but emissions may be produced by the source of electrical power, such as a power plant. In geographic areas that use relatively low-polluting energy sources for electricity generation, PHEVs and EVs typically have a well-to-wheel emissions advantage over similar conventional vehicles running on gasoline or diesel. In regions that depend heavily on conventional fossil fuels for electricity generation, PEVs may not demonstrate a well-to-wheel emissions benefit."


https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

I don't have a real problem with electric cars but the infrastructure to keep them charged does not exist for other than around town driving. Hybrids just use gasoline to recharge the battery.  And I suspect there is a loss of efficiency in doing that (i.e. conversion of gas to shaft power to turn generator.)

The only way that electric cars can become a reasonable replacement for gas or diesel powered vehicles is to replace the way we currently produce electric.  Solar is not the answer.  The only energy source that will be able to meet our needs and the world's needs is nuclear.  But that is not a considered option because it would give us energy freedom that would also reduce the CO2 emissions that some say are contributing to what some identify as "climate change".

[RDKLL]

Like any business decision, it is based on previous data and that says that people are not buying those vehicles. We have a small Subaru SUV, a Crosstrek that we love...it is in the shop and our loaner is a Nissan Sentra. Now we have already decided that we were done with the Big 3, but now we are 100% not getting anything other than an SUV or something similar. That said, I dont know when we would buy something because everything is so expensive.

[Gavin_Sons]

Never liked GM or Ford. Now that they are restructuring and getting rid of their cars that means more people will buy Honda and Toyotas making them the top auto manufacturers. The government needs to back off the emissions so these bigger suvs and trucks can get mid 20-30 mpg.

[old2soon]

          As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

[Beardo]

Electric has a loooooooong way to go technologically before its viable up here in the great white north. Battery tech just isn’t designed to work well at -30 or -40. When your battery going dead means that you’ll freeze to death, it’s not a good option.

I think the recent GM factory closures should have happened during the last economic downturn, but instead the Govt got involved and delayed the inevitable and cost taxpayers a schwack of $$. IMO, GM should have Chev and Cadillac, get rid of the rest. Along the lines of Toyota and Honda, have the main brand and also a luxury brand.  Never understood why they have so many vehicles that compete against each other. Make 1 and make it well.

As far as all the other tech....I wish one would make a truck with solid axles, steel bumpers, real 4x4, etc. The only “tech” I want is airbags and fuel injection. Not gonna happen though.

[Gavin_Sons]

         As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

I agree, the U.S should have never bailed them out. Sink or swim like any other business. Their bailout is why I will never buy a GM or Ford.  I knew this would come back around to kick us in the ass.

[msb]

As far as all the other tech....I wish one would make a truck with solid axles, steel bumpers, real 4x4, etc. The only “tech” I want is airbags and fuel injection. Not gonna happen though.

Gee...for such a young guy, you sure sound like an "old fart" Jason.  I guess that's why you fit in so well with our little group over here, eh?

100% agree on the ridiculousness  of government bailouts of large private companies. You just knew GM would be going down this road eventually. Love my 2017 Tacoma Off Road ....one tough truck, with  off road capabilities on par with my previous Jeep Wrangler (but alas, it doesn't have steel bumpers    lol)

[Oss]

GM and unfortinately many but by no means all other US companies are the opposite of patriotic corporations

The biggest problem with corporate law for a century or more is the lack of requirement to be a good citizen - or if you will, exhibit those traits of a good person  And there is no penalty to the corporation beyond slap on the wrist fines reduced to relatively nothing compared to profit and those can be written off in many cases.

Setting up giant losses just to raise the bottom line for shareholders while screwing over their work force, dealers and sales people does bother me.  Many companies depend on GM all up and down the line
It is not just the GM employees who will suffer.

GM should be liquidated, given the death penalty, its CEO COO CFO sent to retirement without their bonuses and then US businesses should be able to buy those assets and restart a new US car company with those tens of thousands or more skilled employees.  This should have been the condition of getting money from our treasury from day one.  The collective head of the snake must go.
 Govmt has no business running a car company but it should in this case be able to help american capitalists themselves make a company that can produce Impala's, and for that matter ditch the emissions so FORD can make Town Cars or Grand Marquis again (love the room in those cars as a tall man)  If you keep shrinking the size of the normal car folks will move to the SUV and that is what happened here.

YMMV

[Gavin_Sons]

As far as all the other tech....I wish one would make a truck with solid axles, steel bumpers, real 4x4, etc. The only “tech” I want is airbags and fuel injection. Not gonna happen though.

Gee...for such a young guy, you sure sound like an "old fart" Jason.  I guess that's why you fit in so well with our little group over here, eh?

100% agree on the ridiculousness  of government bailouts of large private companies. You just knew GM would be going down this road eventually. Love my 2017 Tacoma Off Road ....one tough truck, with  off road capabilities on par with my previous Jeep Wrangler (but alas, it doesn't have steel bumpers    lol)

Those Tacomas and Tundras are awesome trucks. I have a 2017 Tundra TRD off road, had a 2005 before this one.  My 17 is much bigger in the cab but has a shorter bed.

[old2soon]

            Well the Japanese auto makers sorta kinda woke up detroit a little bit. But with their-detroits-recent antics obviously NOT near nuff on the wake up call. Far as the supporting industries go they already-with the announced plans-have told the supporting industries to git snuggled. So the 14700 by g m will equal How Many MORE in the supporting industries?  RIDE SAFE.

[..]

Maybe if there was a program for people who could turn in their older gassy vehicles and get a discount  off a GM product.

Give it a snappy title and it will save GM. 

[shortleg]

         As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

I agree, the U.S should have never bailed them out. Sink or swim like any other business. Their bailout is why I will never buy a GM or Ford.  I knew this would come back around to kick us in the ass.

.  Ford was the only one of the three that did not take one dime from the government.

[solo1]

I've not owned a truck for a long time, don't need one.  When I had them, most of the time the bed was empty.

My 2013 Mazda Six isn't worth much because of the SUV and truck market.  I'm holding onto it though because when the Big Three find that their arse is getting beaten by cheaper running reliable cars, my Mazda will again be worth something.  However, with only 30k miles I'm satisfied where I am.  My other zoom zoom is also sticking around, the Miata at 40k.  BOTH paid for!

I have to laugh about 'good for the environment' electric cars. Evidently, the power to recharge batteries on them is free with no cause for environmental concerns., or so they say.

The gadgets on the new cars are supposed to keep the idiots drivers from killing themselves and others.  Good luck with that.

[..]

         As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

I agree, the U.S should have never bailed them out. Sink or swim like any other business. Their bailout is why I will never buy a GM or Ford.  I knew this would come back around to kick us in the ass.

.  Ford was the only one of the three that did not take one dime from the government.

 

[The emperor has no clothes]

The gadgets on the new cars are supposed to keep the idiots drivers from killing themselves and others.  Good luck with that.

A while back I was behind a driver who was texting. Their lane avoidance technology kept her from crossing lanes. She was ping ponging back and forth in her lane for miles, but she did stay in her lane. I viewed that as a positive.

[Gavin_Sons]

         As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

I agree, the U.S should have never bailed them out. Sink or swim like any other business. Their bailout is why I will never buy a GM or Ford.  I knew this would come back around to kick us in the ass.

.  Ford was the only one of the three that did not take one dime from the government.

Really? 5.9 billion is not one dime? No they didn't call it a bailout rather a loan but it is all bvb the same for me. If your CV company is that big and you need government bailouts or loans you don't need my business.

[Rams]

Comes down to GM and Ford raising a white flag, surrendering to the Japanese sedan and small car industry.   They are admitting they can't or aren't willing to compete.

I have yet to see a Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, etc..... truck that competes with an American "Big Three" work truck.   Recreational truck type vehicles yes.   Towing, hauling, working trucks, no.
Admittedly, I'm a Cummins fan.

Rams

[Gavin_Sons]

Comes down to GM and Ford raising a white flag, surrendering to the Japanese sedan and small car industry.   They are admitting they can't or aren't willing to compete.

I have yet to see a Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, etc..... truck that competes with an American "Big Three" work truck.   Recreational truck type vehicles yes.   Towing, hauling, working trucks, no.
Admittedly, I'm a Cummins fan.

Rams

Of course you haven't seen that, that is not their market. Nissan is trying g with their little half ton with a Cummins that has proved to be junk. My neighbor worked exclusively on that engine and he said Nissan set a release date for the truck and on that date there were already 5 recalls. So the new owners took possession of vehicles with multiple recalls. Not to mention they are the ugliest truck on the road . Sorry if you own a Titan  XD, no hard feelings. My Tundra hauls what I want it to. If I want to haul anything bigger I'll go buy myself a Ram 3500 with the Cummins.

[Rams]

Comes down to GM and Ford raising a white flag, surrendering to the Japanese sedan and small car industry.   They are admitting they can't or aren't willing to compete.

I have yet to see a Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, etc..... truck that competes with an American "Big Three" work truck.   Recreational truck type vehicles yes.   Towing, hauling, working trucks, no.
Admittedly, I'm a Cummins fan.

Rams

My Tundra hauls what I want it to. If I want to haul anything bigger I'll go buy myself a Ram 3500 with the Cummins.

Good decision.   

Rams

[Alberta Patriot]

The Big Three are publicly traded multi national corps that answer only to their investors...period.
During the criminal Federal Reserve created collapse of 2007/08 Chrysler and GM (but not Ford)took billions in taxpayer bailout money in the USA and Canada to save jobs that cost us far more than we got back from these recipients of "Forced Taxpayer Generosity". If each and every individual had a choice whether or not to fork out bailout money directly from their bank accounts, they both would be gone already!!!
For decades, with very few exceptions, the design of these vehicles have been effectively interfered with by bottom feeding, bottom line bean counters, Instead of gear head/engineers and enthusiasts.
And the Icing on top of this cake?...EPA mandated CAFE Corporate Average rules dictate that a substantial number of "ECO" cars come off the assembly lines or there are big fines to pay.
These guys keep stacking up the unsold storage lots with cars that we really didn't ask for. There will be lots of bargain basement car shopping to be had for those who don't care about basic handling, utility or performance. The Enviro Nut Jobs that run the EPA want us to buy "Plug In Eco Squirrel Cages", but we just ain't buyin'...YA JUST CAN'T STEER BEHAVIOR WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN....PERIOD
 

[cookiedough]

[/quote]


Those Tacomas and Tundras are awesome trucks. I have a 2017 Tundra TRD off road, had a 2005 before this one.  My 17 is much bigger in the cab but has a shorter bed.
[/quote]

get a double cab tundra like I did in 2017 thus having a useful 6 1/2 foot bed.  ONLY truck I would trade my 17 tundra on would be a crew cab 6 1/2 bed tundra but they do not make it and they should!  Amazes me no 1/2 ton is cheap anymore, but my mid-level SR5 has enough for me do not need all the crap that GM/Ford/Dodge has on their 1/2 ton trucks and a premium price increase as well. 

I agree if GM, etc. goes bankrupt again, NO more bailouts by us being the Government.  It will come back to haunt them eventually.  Cadillac is beyond my price range getting rid of 2 of them as well, but to get rid of their big car Impala and fuel efficient bread and butter Cruze is stupid.  Now, if they could make a small SUV UNDER 20K in price like the Cruze is and get 35 avg mpg as well,  it would be a winner. 

All new vehicles are becoming crazy pricey and have thru the years bought my fair share new,  but the on average 3% price increase per year EVERY year is more than our pay raises per year working and more often than not the price of a new vehicle is MORE than some of us make per year as well.  I cannot fathom paying over 40K for a vehicle of any kind, just not worth it for most of us, let alone 30K. 

[bscrive]

If you think people are not going to buy SUVs and trucks because gas prices are going ridiculously high, you just have to take a drive up to Canada. we are getting hosed on our gas and I see SUVs and trucks everywhere.
As for GM I think they're just playing games and they're looking for another hand out to stay in Canada and United States. I don't think that they're really ready to go and only concentrate on electric cars, it's all a scam.

[cookiedough]

Comes down to GM and Ford raising a white flag, surrendering to the Japanese sedan and small car industry.   They are admitting they can't or aren't willing to compete.

I have yet to see a Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, etc..... truck that competes with an American "Big Three" work truck.   Recreational truck type vehicles yes.   Towing, hauling, working trucks, no.
Admittedly, I'm a Cummins fan.

Rams

Of course you haven't seen that, that is not their market. Nissan is trying g with their little half ton with a Cummins that has proved to be junk. My neighbor worked exclusively on that engine and he said Nissan set a release date for the truck and on that date there were already 5 recalls. So the new owners took possession of vehicles with multiple recalls. Not to mention they are the ugliest truck on the road . Sorry if you own a Titan  XD, no hard feelings. My Tundra hauls what I want it to. If I want to haul anything bigger I'll go buy myself a Ram 3500 with the Cummins.

+1 on the toyota tundra competing and beating in all relavent categories  in the 1/2 ton truck market being:  price, reliability, and resale.  Do I care it is NOT TOPS in towing over 10000lbs. nor the fastest 0-60 mph nor the best mpg?  If worrying about 2-3 more mpg in a truck or being first in a drag race do not buy a truck,  and who in their right mind would tow much over 8000lbs. regularly in any 1/2 ton truck?  The tundra double cab is actually 4 full sized doors and unless over 6 feet sitting in the backseats,  has plenty of room inside no need for a crew cab since is the biggest seating interior space and most comfiest by far of the big 3 in terms of rear backseat room on the double cab/ext. cab version.   I switched from chevy silverado's mostly crew cabs (a few ext. cabs) in 2007 to tundras and have not looked back since.  I just sure hope they do not go the way of GM and Ford building smaller displacement 4 and 6 cylinder twin turbo engines for I heard that tiny 4 banger in the new silverado as standard eqmt. does not even get more mpg than a comparable 6 or almost same as the 8 cylinder 5.3L V8 engine.    who ever thought of putting any type of 4 cylinder engine in a full sized truck should be fired on the spot, why???  

[Rams]

The Big Three are publicly traded multi national corps that answer only to their investors...period.
During the criminal Federal Reserve created collapse of 2007/08 Chrysler and GM (but not Ford)took billions in taxpayer bailout money in the USA and Canada to save jobs that cost us far more than we got back from these recipients of "Forced Taxpayer Generosity". If each and every individual had a choice whether or not to fork out bailout money directly from their bank accounts, they both would be gone already!!!
For decades, with very few exceptions, the design of these vehicles have been effectively interfered with by bottom feeding, bottom line bean counters, Instead of gear head/engineers and enthusiasts.
And the Icing on top of this cake?...EPA mandated CAFE Corporate Average rules dictate that a substantial number of "ECO" cars come off the assembly lines or there are big fines to pay.
These guys keep stacking up the unsold storage lots with cars that we really didn't ask for. There will be lots of bargain basement car shopping to be had for those who don't care about basic handling, utility or performance. The Enviro Nut Jobs that run the EPA want us to buy "Plug In Eco Squirrel Cages", but we just ain't buyin'...YA JUST CAN'T STEER BEHAVIOR WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN....PERIOD
 

Additionally, don't forget the Union influence on corporate decisions.    Blame does not just go one direction.   

Rams

[Dave Ritsema]

I am sure they based this decision on their sales  history. I just drove down my street and none of my neighbors own cars anymore. (Except some classic cars) Pretty much everyone either drives an SUV or a truck with a few minivans thrown in. I have two trucks and both my wife and daughter both have SUVs. Many of the smaller SUV's get comparable mileage to a mid size car, perform better in the snow, have better visibility due to sitting higher and generally speaking perform better in crash tests.

For those that still desire a performance car or one that is a compact Ford will still provide them with an offering. The market is changing, technology is changing and I can understand the shift.

[cookiedough]

If you think people are not going to buy SUVs and trucks because gas prices are going ridiculously high, you just have to take a drive up to Canada. we are getting hosed on our gas and I see SUVs and trucks everywhere.
As for GM I think they're just playing games and they're looking for another hand out to stay in Canada and United States. I don't think that they're really ready to go and only concentrate on electric cars, it's all a scam.

You Canucks up north of us a ways think differently -    When gas was way up in US terms (gas is always high in Canada so use to it more so) around 3.50 or so per gallon (depending on location was over 4 bucks per gallon), trucks and large SUVs were sitting on dealership lots NOT being sold.  I still remember in the late 2000''s when gas was high they had HUGE rebates on the toyota tundra like 3500-4K off in rebates, never ever seen from toyota on their tundras any rebates like over 2K EVER when gas was cheaper.    GAS being low does promote larger, less fuel efficient SUV and truck sales no doubt about it.  

Is odd though they are also scrapping the chevy VOLT heard it was a pretty good car gas/electric combo for what it was.  A former high school teacher in our town had one and I did not think it was too bad looking either and she loved it.

I still think besides more wind resistance, someone should be able to build a smaller SUV 4 cylinder that gets 35 avg mpg,  it would sell like hotcakes am sure of it.    Even the small Buick Encore good for 4 people does not get over 30 mpg I believe?  I looked at the Hyundai Kona even smaller inside in backseat/rear cargo room and still not achieving over 30 mpg either which is sad.    Heck, it only gets 3 more mpg than our 290hp 3.3L V6 santa fe getting 26 avg mpg hwy. up to 29 mpg long distances under 65 mph.

I also think it is very sad that the trucks and SUV's even with a v8 engine cannot achieve in todays technology 25 hwy mpg. ,  not including the diesel 1/2 ton trucks of course which do but for a premium upgrade in pricing to get the diesel engine plus increase in diesel fuel costs.  My old 350 chevy V8 way back in 1988 got the same 16-17 avg mpg as my newer tundra does, although around 80 less hp and torque both.   Part of the problem is wind resistance on larger vehicles, but mfgs. keep adding MORE weight to their techy advanced large trucks/SUVs as well as tons more hp/torque that most consumers want more and more of which is really not needed am sure the old 350 chevy v8 in the 1980s can tow the same or darn near the same as todays NEW V8 trucks can, just slower is all.

[Dave Ritsema]

Cookiedough
[/quote]

+1 on the toyota tundra competing and beating in all relavent categories  in the 1/2 ton truck market being:  price, reliability, and resale.  Do I care it is NOT TOPS in towing over 10000lbs. nor the fastest 0-60 mph nor the best mpg?  If worrying about 2-3 more mpg in a truck or being first in a drag race do not buy a truck,  and who in their right mind would tow much over 8000lbs. regularly in any 1/2 ton truck?  The tundra double cab is actually 4 full sized doors and unless over 6 feet sitting in the backseats,  has plenty of room inside no need for a crew cab since is the biggest seating interior space and most comfiest by far of the big 3 in terms of rear backseat room on the double cab/ext. cab version.   I switched from chevy silverado's mostly crew cabs (a few ext. cabs) in 2007 to tundras and have not looked back since.  I just sure hope they do not go the way of GM and Ford building smaller displacement 4 and 6 cylinder twin turbo engines for I heard that tiny 4 banger in the new silverado as standard eqmt. does not even get more mpg than a comparable 6 or almost same as the 8 cylinder 5.3L V8 engine.    who ever thought of putting any type of 4 cylinder engine in a full sized truck should be fired on the spot, why???  
[/quote]

Like them or hate them Ford has had the best selling pick ups for many years and was the top selling vehicle in the US last year so they must be doing something right. I see the Tundra as a typical reverse engineered japanese product and while it may represent the best that Japanese automakers can make in the american truck market they still can't compete with the big 3 american trucks.

In regards to towing I am in my right mind and regularly tow over 9000 pounds in my F150 and am working comfortably within it's design limits and  if you don't think the twin turbo six cylinder is adequate for a truck you really need to take one for a drive. They have great throttle response, torque and HP and I am getting 23 MPG in a full size 4WD F150.

When the moved the eco-boost into the Raptor last year the V8 guys swore it was blasphemy until they drove them and saw the data that the HP and torque exceeded their beloved V8's. Technology in the last 5 years has really changed the car game and mostly for the better.

[Gavin_Sons]

Cookiedough

+1 on the toyota tundra competing and beating in all relavent categories  in the 1/2 ton truck market being:  price, reliability, and resale.  Do I care it is NOT TOPS in towing over 10000lbs. nor the fastest 0-60 mph nor the best mpg?  If worrying about 2-3 more mpg in a truck or being first in a drag race do not buy a truck,  and who in their right mind would tow much over 8000lbs. regularly in any 1/2 ton truck?  The tundra double cab is actually 4 full sized doors and unless over 6 feet sitting in the backseats,  has plenty of room inside no need for a crew cab since is the biggest seating interior space and most comfiest by far of the big 3 in terms of rear backseat room on the double cab/ext. cab version.   I switched from chevy silverado's mostly crew cabs (a few ext. cabs) in 2007 to tundras and have not looked back since.  I just sure hope they do not go the way of GM and Ford building smaller displacement 4 and 6 cylinder twin turbo engines for I heard that tiny 4 banger in the new silverado as standard eqmt. does not even get more mpg than a comparable 6 or almost same as the 8 cylinder 5.3L V8 engine.    who ever thought of putting any type of 4 cylinder engine in a full sized truck should be fired on the spot, why???  
[/quote]

Like them or hate them Ford has had the best selling pick ups for many years and was the top selling vehicle in the US last year so they must be doing something right. I see the Tundra as a typical reverse engineered japanese product and while it may represent the best that Japanese automakers can make in the american truck market they still can't compete with the big 3 american trucks.

In regards to towing I am in my right mind and regularly tow over 9000 pounds in my F150 and am working comfortably within it's design limits and  if you don't think the twin turbo six cylinder isn't adequate for a truck you really need to take one for a drive. They have great throttle response, torque and HP and I am getting 23 MPG in a full size 4WD F150.

When the moved the eco-boost into the Raptor last year the V8 guys swore it was blasphemy until they drove them and saw the data that the HP and torque exceeded their beloved V8's. Technology in the last 5 years has really changed the car game and mostly for the better.
[/quote]

My truck is better than your truck blah blah blah. Who cares as long as you like what you buy. I have driven fords and don't like them, also chevys, also don't like them.  I'm happy with my Toyota's, I own 3. 2017 tundra 2015 Sienna and a 02 highlander. Highlander has 230k on it and not a single problem. Had an 2010 Chevy traverse that was a piece of crap.

[Kidd]

If you're a working man and need the bed , the Tundra is totally worthless , unless you'e   6'6" tall..
I am 5'9"   and can't reach into the bed  .            Trucks these days are designed more  for aesthetics and not functionality .     Maybe they were always designed for  aesthetics and just lucky they were lower  .

I have a 2017 F 150 with the 2.7  ,  all the power I need , but , it sits too high  , not as bad as the Tundra

[Gavin_Sons]

If you're a working man and need the bed , the Tundra is totally worthless , unless you'e   6'6" tall..
I am 5'9"   and can't reach into the bed  .            Trucks these days are designed more  for aesthetics and not functionality .     Maybe they were always designed for  aesthetics and just lucky they were lower  .

I have a 2017 F 150 with the 2.7  ,  all the power I need , but , it sits too high  , not as bad as the Tundra

And here I'm thinking about lifting my Tundra another 4" 

[Bighead]

         As I've stated before the those self driving vehicles scare the livin crap outa me. Course on the other hand most of the young drivers and a lot of the older drivers scare the livin crap outa me. I really prefer my G M products BUT they Are makin it cursed difficult fer me to maintain my loyalty. And truth be told I have NOT bought a new vehicle in decades. My mechanic here has had durned good luck in finding me good used rides-Not abused rides. Pull their subsidies and the next time they are on the brink of bankruptcy let em go. I still feel a HUGE mistake was made when fed gubmint bailed out the auto industry. RIDE SAFE.

I agree, the U.S should have never bailed them out. Sink or swim like any other business. Their bailout is why I will never buy a GM or Ford.  I knew this would come back around to kick us in the ass.

Gavin Ford did not take the bail out. Only GM and Dodge did. That is what why I will never buy a GM or Chrysler product again.

[cookiedough]

If you're a working man and need the bed , the Tundra is totally worthless , unless you'e   6'6" tall..
I am 5'9"   and can't reach into the bed  .            Trucks these days are designed more  for aesthetics and not functionality .     Maybe they were always designed for  aesthetics and just lucky they were lower  .

I have a 2017 F 150 with the 2.7  ,  all the power I need , but , it sits too high  , not as bad as the Tundra

yes, the tundra bed is deeper than the f150, but the new 2019 chevy silverado I have heard is wider and deeper than the tundra even.  I am 5'10" and can reach inside my stock tundra from the sides but not touch the bed flat but pretty close.  If I need something in the middle or flat on the bed,  I put my foot on top of my tire and get in there quickly and get it no problems. 

Dave R.,  am sure your f150 3.5 ecoboost is fine and runs well and faster and tows tad bit more than the tundra and even gets better mpg,  but reliability down the road,  will see?    Read up on the turbo having issues later on say 60-90K miles or so.    A big reason why Ford sells the most F150 trucks has a lot to do with fleet sales as well.  If you combine chevy and GMC truck sales it is pretty close.  tundra does not have the production capability to be the huge volume seller as GM, Ford, and Dodge and truck buyers are very headstrong on switching mfgs.  I was chevy thru and thru until 2007 when the tundra dealer let me take the new tundra for a weekend trip NO charge which was shocked and although the gas mpg sucked since I beat the piss out of it burning rubber,  that dealer salesman was so trustworthy to me never heard of a dealership just give a 30k truck FREE for the entire weekend before selling it putting on about 400 miles or more.  If the Dodge Ram had better reliability (it has improved over the years recently) and resale,  it would be a contender for me to buy since I like the 5.7L V8 hemi and ride/handling/comfort with the coil springs in back being the smoothest ride out there in 1/2 ton trucks.  The tundra is o.k. riding, but probably the worst of the bunch, but it is a truck after all. 

When the tundra came out in 2007 bigger and better than any 1/2 ton truck on the market at the time with most powerful engine, 6 speed tranny (most others had still 4 speed autos), monster 4.30 rear axle ratio, best and biggest brakes/rotors, it turned heads, sure did for me.  Problem with toyota is they do not like to change things up their theory if it is not broke, do not fix/change it.  The competition has continually upgraded while nothing wrong with the 2007 on up tundra,  nothing new has come our way on the tundra since 2007 besides cosmetic changes for the most part. 

Sorry, off topic,  but GM and Ford scrapping their car lineup somewhat is going to be interesting in 2-3 years whether gas goes up or not.  AS said,  other auto mfgs. are happy GM and Ford are no longer interested in car sales.

[John Schmidt]

Wish I had a pickup, preferably a late 60's or early 70's. But, when I see a good deal on one locally I'm always overruled 1:1....you all know what I mean there. So, I stay with my '08 Toyota Highlander, had it for 11 years now, turned over 65k exactly 11 years from the day we bought it. Gets pretty fair mileage around town and ranges from 24-27 on the open highway so guess we'll keep it a few more years.

[Jack B]

What surprises me is that the Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, and Chevy Camaro are not going to be dropped.
Do they sell that well?

[Willow]

What surprises me is that the Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, and Chevy Camaro are not going to be dropped.
Do they sell that well?

Yes.

[Dave Ritsema]

What surprises me is that the Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, and Chevy Camaro are not going to be dropped.
Do they sell that well?

Yes.

Agreed. And I also believe that a few select passenger car models are being kept so the companies can hedge their bets and should the market shift they will have the plants already available to quickly pivot back to automobile production with minimal tooling changes should the need arise.  At least that is what I would do. 

[¿spoom]

What surprises me is that the Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, and Chevy Camaro are not going to be dropped.
Do they sell that well?

Yes.

Agreed. And I also believe that a few select passenger car models are being kept so the companies can hedge their bets and should the market shift they will have the plants already available to quickly pivot back to automobile production with minimal tooling changes should the need arise.  At least that is what I would do.  

Exactly. One thing that's perhaps being ignored is that Ford (and possibly GM, I don't know) said they were discontinuing car production in the US which means if car sales get stronger, unemployed domestic automakers can still go to showrooms to look at cars built in Mexico. Thanks, NAFTA, the pointy stick up the US workers' collective butt that still hasn't been removed.
SUVs are just minivans with higher ground clearance, meaning less interior room. In the 60's we just called them station wagons. Great use of space for transporting families and all their gear. At 62y.o. & 99% retired, I prefer a 4x4 truck and a comfy car over an AWD minivan or SUV, so I will miss having a choice of Graf Zeppelins from various mfrs. With apologies to Sir Mix-a-Lot, "I like big boats, I will not lie". With the demise of the "Impadillac" platform that I thought I'd get next year to replace my caddy, I'm not sure what I'll drive eventually when my STS is no longer rust free.