social security coming to an end

[cookiedough]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/the-coming-collapse-to-social-security-as-we-know-it

I have been saying this for years now, but people think the lost funding for social security will never happen in their lifetime.  I can see it being around for those in their early 60s ready to retire, but for those say 50 and for sure under,  I highly doubt much, if any, social security will be around once we retire.  As article said is NOT a right to receive benefits and the way this govt. is spending money time and time again, it will be gone for us under age 50 once we retire, if we live that long, say at age 70.

Maybe Trump should spend some of his billions to build his OWN wall?  Just a thought?  Not like he cannot afford it.  He will not back down on this wall funding issue it seems like and threatening other countries as well to help out or ELSE!!!! 

Just my .02 cents...

[Willow]

Just my .02 cents...

You're overpricing your opinion.

[Oss]

Surprised?
Obama shut the govmt for 16 days to pass Obamacare And not one person read the bill before they signed it  Shameful they should all be rotting in Guantanamo if I was in charge
That fiasco costs my family over 33000 a year thank you very much
5 billion is nothing in the federal budget  absolutely nothing
My democratic party for years gave speeches (clinton and obama) to secure the border you can watch them on youtube while your bike is in the garage this winter
You are a smart man yet you dont understand you secure a border with a wall just like you secure your house with a door and lock
that just is not like you Cookiedough
You wouldnt let people into your house you dont know, our country should not either
Best wishes for a Happy New Year

Oss

See the forest thru the trees, the democrats (and republicans) will say anything they are politicians  Trump is the opposite he is a hard negotiator with a big mouth and a big ego but he is putting the USA first and God bless him and his agenda

[DIGGER]

Surprised?
Obama shut the govmt for 16 days to pass Obamacare And not one person read the bill before they signed it  Shameful they should all be rotting in Guantanamo if I was in charge
That fiasco costs my family over 33000 a year thank you very much
5 billion is nothing in the federal budget  absolutely nothing
My democratic party for years gave speeches (clinton and obama) to secure the border you can watch them on youtube while your bike is in the garage this winter
You are a smart man yet you dont understand you secure a border with a wall just like you secure your house with a door and lock
that just is not like you Cookiedough
You wouldnt let people into your house you dont know, our country should not either
Best wishes for a Happy New Year

Oss

See the forest thru the trees, the democrats (and republicans) will say anything they are politicians  Trump is the opposite he is a hard negotiator with a big mouth and a big ego but he is putting the USA first and God bless him and his agenda

I read somewhere.......

I don't lock my doors at night to keep out the bad element because I hate them.....I lock my doors at night to protect my family because I love them.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just my .02 cents...

You're overpricing your opinion.

[Savago]

@cookiedough no need to be worried about the wall, after all, Trump promised that Mexico is going to pay for it.
 

[Serk]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

[Savago]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

Libertarians have high hopes. But that's all they are. Social Security is never going away. Imagine all the "conservatives" without it. 1776 all over again.

[Valker]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

No, an accurate and applicable analogy. Border security is a federal responsibility according to the Constitutional law. "Common defense" may also cover it. Nobody asked you to pay for the road that leads to your house, so I assume you did not bear that bill alone. You resenting the government paying for things you don't like is like me resenting them paying for roads you use for which you did not pay.

[Serk]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

Libertarians have high hopes. But that's all they are. Social Security is never going away. Imagine all the "conservatives" without it. 1776 all over again.

Make it optional, let me opt out, have back what's already been stolen from me, and I'd be happy...

[MarkT]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

Libertarians have high hopes. But that's all they are. Social Security is never going away. Imagine all the "conservatives" without it. 1776 all over again.

Make it optional, let me opt out, have back what's already been stolen from me, and I'd be happy...

Serk, I paid all my life into the fund with the expectation I'll benefit and get some of it back when I retire.  Now I am retirement age, and oops "we pissed the money away so now we ain't paying after all"?   Broken promises but what else do I expect from our govt.  This whole Ponzi scheme was put in place by Democrats - FDR administration.  Figures its a scam.

[Jess from VA]

Lyndon Johnson began taking from the social security trust account, and using it in the general budget.  But it has continued ever since.  Some years ago, I was told that somewhere in DC is a big fat IOU in a box, for all the Social security money that has been used in the general budget, which is essentially, all of it.

Politicians like to say it's no big deal as it is money owed by government to government, which of course is a lie.  They like to say the same thing about our national debt (now $21 trillion), which is also a lie.  The FY 2018 interest owed on that national debt was $371 billion.   That's $371 billion in interest which does not pay down the principle one cent.  In truth, it is the people's money, spent by the people's government (with copious amounts of fraud, waste and abuse). 

It's amusing that with all the acrimony between the two political parties, (almost) no one likes to talk about this at all.

Kicking the can down the road.  Can it last forever?

Social Security’s Annual Reports of the Board of Trustees says the first shortfall doesn't happen until 2034.  What a happy tap dance.  This promises higher taxes and perhaps an eventual retirement age of 92.  

This may be the only good thing about being old (besides not being dead).  

[DirtyDan]

For what it’s worth I paid into it for 20 years.

Now it’s paying me

No complaints here

Dan

[The emperor has no clothes]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

Libertarians have high hopes. But that's all they are. Social Security is never going away. Imagine all the "conservatives" without it. 1776 all over again.

Make it optional, let me opt out, have back what's already been stolen from me, and I'd be happy...

I'd be happy too. But it's not realistic. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of people right here in this club who's only means of income is Social Security. The realistic solution is to put enough pressure on our elected officials to fix the system and not let them siphon money from it.

[Rams]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

The fact remains that with out a door, anything or anyone can enter without permission, uninvited.
Try this test, open all your windows and take your doors off the hinges.   Take a vacation leaving your home open for anyone to enter.   Come back in a week or two and let us know what you find.

Yes, the analogy is simplistic.  Our home (country) has no windows or doors or, Walls.   If we wish to protect our borders, it is our responsibility to do something about it if we don't want uninvited visitors IMHO.    

Rams  

[Patrick]

Stop half the foreign aid and welfare programs. Stop being the worlds police dept. Then the wall cost wouldn't be an issue, neither would SS. We really could then pave our streets with gold.

[Robert]

     A million seconds is 12 days.
    A billion seconds is 31 years.
    A trillion seconds is 31,688 years.

National debt roughly 18 trillion, and now part of the cost of illegals

According to a report published by Forbes, health care for 3.9 million illegal immigrants costs American taxpayers $18.5 billion annually. Of that total, $11.2 billion in federal taxes went to subsidizing care for illegal immigrants in 2016.

It is not a good idea to pay illegal aliens tax refunds for non-existent or illegal alien children, which an inspector general for the Treasury Department said costs us $4.2 billion a year, The IRS even Ignores Appeals Court Decision and continues Paying "Child Tax Credits" to Illegal Aliens

The IRS encourages and facilitates the commission of job-related felonies, including Social Security fraud, forgery, perjury, and identity theft as long as these crimes are committed by illegal aliens and their employers. Whats worse IRS Policy Labels Illegal-Alien ID Thieves as "Borrowers"

This does not address the amount of illegals here in the US some with estimates as high as 13 million, nor the true cost since its not known beyond these figures the true cost of theft by illegals.
 
Now to Social Security,

Social Security was setup so benefits are entirely self-financing.  They are paid for with payroll taxes collected from workers and their employers throughout their careers.  These taxes are placed in a trust fund dedicated to paying benefits owed to current and future beneficiaries. Even though Social Security began collecting less in taxes than it paid in benefits in 2010, the trust fund will continue to accrue interest and grow until 2025, and will have adequate resources to pay full benefits for the next 26 years.

If the Federal Government had not stolen $2.85 Trillion from the fund. So now all that is left is a file cabinet at the Bureau of Public Debt filled with non-negotiable bonds. If congress had not borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund since it began, it would have no problem today.

BTW the promise to pay back the money the government stole from SS is due to start being paid back in 2020.

This does not include the government handing out benefits to those that dont deserve it or extending benefits to those who were never meant to get benefits.

 The only way the trust fund can get some cash today to pay Social Security benefits is if the federal government draws it from general revenues or borrows the money—which, of course, it can’t do because of the debt ceiling. Also if a government shut down occurs Social Security was never supposed to be stopped since it was a TRUST FUND and independently funded and paid out, NOT part of the general government funds.

So from government corruption and breaking of the trust fund an action that would send anyone else to jail we have to put earned benefits into the government debt where it was never meant to be.

So if a wall for 5 billion will help to put a stop to this its a drop in the bucket and the cost will be offset from the cost of identity theft, stealing of benefits, loss of jobs, loss of life. Heck if the government had not stolen the money from SS the interest accrued on the money would have paid for a wall in a blink of an eye. All these numbers are probably very low to the true cost of this problem since no federal agency is truly trying to find the true cost to the US tax payer.

 In essence, illegal immigration, raiding of a trust fund, paying benefits to illegals,health care and paying benefits to those who NEVER paid in or dont fall under the guidelines is an unregulated form of socialism and wealth distribution that governmental agencies have been not held accountable on and have at will payed out money that was not theirs to pay out and boarders on criminal.

It really begs the question you would never give your money to someone who steals it or does not pay back or had alternate agendas with YOUR money why would anyone trust this government to do the right thing, since they have proven time and time again they cannot be trusted? It goes beyond ideology or political party its just common sense and being responsible with OUR/YOUR MONEY. Its not good for anyone or any party since there is NO control, NO restraint, NO accountability,NO say and much bravado at our expense. Seems to me it boarders on taxation without representation.

NYC Officials Ignored ICE Detainer Requests For Suspect Charged With Attacking NYPD Officer 

Heartbreaking. Legal immigrant who did everything right with a wonderful family allegedly killed by an illegal alien who did everything wrong with family members who tried to help him escape justice.


Chuck Schumer in 2009: -Americans don't like illegal immigration -"Illegal immigration is wrong" -People illegally in the U.S. are "illegal aliens," not "undocumented" -Border fence made the southern border "far more secure...created a significant barrier to illegal immigration"

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1078496926058700800/video/1

You have to ask yourself, what changed?

[Gavin_Sons]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors. 

[DIGGER]

I draw social security.  I get approximately $2000/month.    I also get a union pension so my monthly income is not solely social security.   There are millions and millions of retired people that social security is their sole income.    Take that away and they starve and can't have water and electricity.    You want to see a armed revolt in this country just try taking away their social security.     If it runs out of money the govt will have to find another way to fund it.

[Gavin_Sons]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors. 

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Stop half the foreign aid and welfare programs. Stop being the worlds police dept. Then the wall cost wouldn't be an issue, neither would SS. We really could then pave our streets with gold.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/10/383875581/guess-how-much-of-uncle-sams-money-goes-to-foreign-aid-guess-again
I’m unsure of the current price of gold. But, we might be able to pave a couple hundred yards.

[¿spoom]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/the-coming-collapse-to-social-security-as-we-know-it

I have been saying this for years now, but people think the lost funding for social security will never happen in their lifetime.  I can see it being around for those in their early 60s ready to retire, but for those say 50 and for sure under,  I highly doubt much, if any, social security will be around once we retire.  As article said is NOT a right to receive benefits and the way this govt. is spending money time and time again, it will be gone for us under age 50 once we retire, if we live that long, say at age 70.

Maybe Trump should spend some of his billions to build his OWN wall?  Just a thought?  Not like he cannot afford it.  He will not back down on this wall funding issue it seems like and threatening other countries as well to help out or ELSE!!!! 

Just my .02 cents...

Everybody's been saying it for years, not worth 2¢ to simply repeat it. Fact is, neither party has found the will to increase the funding. Like someone keeping a car for a decade with zero spent on upkeep, now they freak out over the cost of fixing it all at once. Yeah, it's Trump's fault.  

Lots of things at play-more people collecting than ever before and less paying in. Ever-increasing benefits being added with no thought of paying for them. Disability being the new lottery. Brain-dead addicts getting full benefits at 20 years old that I would have to wait until 66½ to get. The brain -dead kids they carried and birthed while high, getting benefits also. The list goes on. Lots of those same people work under the radar, so they'll be NOT contributing to SS like the system depended on. As Mark mentioned, it's the very definition of a Ponzi scheme. There should be a very small portion of those retired on SS who have no other assets or income, but when we started to teach cradle to grave "big brother will get the check" in the early 60's, there's no reason to act surprised or blame Trump now.  Where was that bile when Obama zoomed up the National Debt and planned on sending far more than $5 billion to the Paris Accord and other One World order wealth distribution schemes? No anger that Democrats would rather support illegals to harvest votes? I don't see Schumer & Pelosi giving up their paychecks like the President, or perhaps the Clinton Foundation could pony up some aid?

[Gavin_Sons]

My grandparents heard it in the 50's my parents heard it in the 80's now I have heard it my whole life. Social Security will be gone in 10 years. Well it has been almost 70 years and it is still around.  How does that happen when everyone says it will be gone. It has outlived itself by 60 years    They just throw these scare tactics out to get people worked up over nothing. Apparently it has worked well with cookiedough. I wish I didn't have to pay into social security,  let me invest my money the way I want.

[Savago]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

[Rams]

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

I would agree that more and better enforcement would help.   But, a physical barrier (such as a Wall) will greatly help slow down, channel and obstruct uninvited illegal aliens.  No, it won't stop those determined to cross over but, it will help stop the flow of those who should stay and fight to clean up their own countries.

Ever been to the Korean Peninsula?    There is no wall there, very few trespassers but damn expensive to maintain.    Eventually, we'll end up with such a DMZ if we don't address the issues.   

Rams

[G-Man]

The quicker the Ponzi Scheme of Social Security collapses, the quicker they'll stop stealing a good chunk of my paycheck, the better....

Libertarians have high hopes. But that's all they are. Social Security is never going away. Imagine all the "conservatives" without it. 1776 all over again.

Make it optional, let me opt out, have back what's already been stolen from me, and I'd be happy...

I'm with you!

[..]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

Ahem.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

If not caught (stopped) how do they "face the law"?

[..]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

There is a lawful process in place

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA.

[..]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

more officers protecting the country

Standing shoulder to shoulder along the leght of the border?

Do you have any idea of the difference in cost between having a human barrier or a constructed wall?

[Moonshot_1]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

The purpose of the wall is not to keep people out. It is to have people migrate into this country in an orderly and lawful manner. The wall has doors. Ports of entry. The wall isn't intended to stop lawful asylum seekers. The wall is a tool for the border agents to increase their effectiveness.

As to drug trafficking it would obviously channel the routes used to more manageable areas of law enforcement.

No one has said the wall will fix every aspect of our immigration issues. But it is a tool that would be a great asset in enforcement of the law. 

[scooperhsd]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors. 

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

more officers protecting the country

Standing shoulder to shoulder along the leght of the border?

Do you have any idea of the difference in cost between having a human barrier or a constructed wall?

 Not all that much because if you have the wall - you have to pay to maintain it, or it eventually collapses due to lack of maintenance.

What it may take to prevent illegal immigration (and let's face it - that's the real problem here) would be a minefield on the Mexican side of the border, the wall that Trump wants, then a minefield on OUR side of the border. And THAT won't necessarrily stop them. You need to put some teeth into the enforcement of our existing immigration laws / regulations - on both the illegals AND the US employers hiring them. Border Patrol agents pickup some illegals - give them a quick health check / food/ water to get back safely - then drop them back off in Mexico - no stop at a courthouse.

[Jess from VA]

You also need to remove any economic assistance or benefits of any kind for illegals.

Including emergency room visits, without cash.

And you'll have to work harder at punishing persons and companies for hiring them for work.

That sounds pretty bad, but what we are doing now is not working (at all).

All this disincentive-ising is as important as a wall (and ICE).   

[¿spoom]

About this analogy of locking a door: I believe all forum members already have a nice door at their homes and most importantly, is not asking everyone else in the country to pay to build such door.

Sorry, but is a simplistic and failed analogy.

Ok then remove your doors.  

But you won't do that will you? You think your stuff should be secure in your home behind locked doors but the United States is something that should not be secure? You know how crazy you sound? Oh hell what am I saying, I'm speaking to a troll.

What stops someone from breaking into your home and stealing your property is not the presence of a door, but the certainty of facing the law.

Once I went on a weekend vacation with my family and my daughter who was the last to leave the home forgot to close the door. Left on Friday for Lake Tahoe, returned on late Sunday, back in 2014.

When I returned the door was wide open and you could see the flat LCD screen in my staying room from outside house but nothing was taken from my home. Maybe I got lucky, but certainly living in a nice neighborhood helps.

Just building a 'wall' won't stop drug dealers from crossing the border and smuggling drugs. They got money to build ships to smuggle drugs into USA or build tunnels from Mexico to California/Texas.

It also won't stop desperate people from Central America to request asylum in the USA. They are facing death in their countries, a wall won't stop them to look for a port of entry at a section in the 'wall' and request asylum.

If you ask the actual Americans who leave by the border, they say that a wall would be useless. What they want (and I personally support) is better enforcement and more officers protecting the country... and look at the plus side: you create jobs!

I'm starting to believe this whole 'wall' thing is more of a psychological need than the real desire to properly address the issues at hand.

The purpose of the wall is not to keep people out. It is to have people migrate into this country in an orderly and lawful manner. The wall has doors. Ports of entry. The wall isn't intended to stop lawful asylum seekers. The wall is a tool for the border agents to increase their effectiveness.

As to drug trafficking it would obviously channel the routes used to more manageable areas of law enforcement.

No one has said the wall will fix every aspect of our immigration issues. But it is a tool that would be a great asset in enforcement of the law. 

Very true. Throughout history, walls have been used to direct and intercede in the flow of both enemies and legal passage of persons. Man has seen effective walls around military bases, sporting venues, the Vatican, ancient China and Roman Great Britain, etc.
Perhaps most important the current discussion, does anyone believe we should once again play games with "immigration reform" before we have better security at the border? The last 8 years were a perfect example of an administration avoiding parts of immigration law it didn't agree with, even though the people voted for that law. You can't have "comprehensive" immigration reform when there's going to be picking and choosing which parts of the new law you'll actually accept and enforce. Currently, we're seeing an assault that is hardly immigration, and certainly not mostly people facing death if we don't let them in. Indeed, many bring death to our country. People who walk into, through, and then out of Mexico into America could have stayed in Mexico, where they were promised asylum. That's not imminent death, that's shopping around for a better country. Most of the world would like to move here, but we can't take them all so we need to decide who stays. Our current system keeps out a lot of people we could use here-all the counselors and HR people we graduate here need foreign engineers and scientists to harass  

[Willow]

Stop half the foreign aid and welfare programs. Stop being the worlds police dept. Then the wall cost wouldn't be an issue, neither would SS. We really could then pave our streets with gold.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/10/383875581/guess-how-much-of-uncle-sams-money-goes-to-foreign-aid-guess-again
I’m unsure of the current price of gold. But, we might be able to pave a couple hundred yards.

I read your link.  Is my math correct?  Does that 1% amount to 40 billion dollars?  

[Rams]

You also need to remove any economic assistance or benefits of any kind for illegals.

Including emergency room visits, without cash.

And you'll have to work harder at punishing persons and companies for hiring them for work.

That sounds pretty bad, but what we are doing now is not working (at all).

All this disincentive-ising is as important as a wall (and ICE).   

Every word is true.   

Illegal entrants should not be able to do squat and those that employ them should face severe punishments.

Rams

[The emperor has no clothes]

Stop half the foreign aid and welfare programs. Stop being the worlds police dept. Then the wall cost wouldn't be an issue, neither would SS. We really could then pave our streets with gold.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/10/383875581/guess-how-much-of-uncle-sams-money-goes-to-foreign-aid-guess-again
I’m unsure of the current price of gold. But, we might be able to pave a couple hundred yards.

I read your link.  Is my math correct?  Does that 1% amount to 40 billion dollars?  

Your math is correct. But according to the article, (which is a little vague on the specifics) it said it was less than 1%. Then it goes on to say that for 2014, 3.1 billion was spent on AIDS/HIV which was one fifth of the total foreign aid spent. So from that I would extrapolate about 15-16 billion was spent on foreign aid that year.

[The emperor has no clothes]

You also need to remove any economic assistance or benefits of any kind for illegals.

Including emergency room visits, without cash.

And you'll have to work harder at punishing persons and companies for hiring them for work.

That sounds pretty bad, but what we are doing now is not working (at all).

All this disincentive-ising is as important as a wall (and ICE).   

I agree with the punishing companies (and individuals) for employing illegals. I strongly disagree with refusing emergency medical attention for illegals and their children. Do we really want to be so heartless as a society that we let children die ? (That's a rhetorical question, I'm afraid of your answer)

[Bighead]

Stop half the foreign aid and welfare programs. Stop being the worlds police dept. Then the wall cost wouldn't be an issue, neither would SS. We really could then pave our streets with gold.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/10/383875581/guess-how-much-of-uncle-sams-money-goes-to-foreign-aid-guess-again
I’m unsure of the current price of gold. But, we might be able to pave a couple hundred yards.

I read your link.  Is my math correct?  Does that 1% amount to 40 billion dollars?  

Your math is correct. But according to the article, (which is a little vague on the specifics) it said it was less than 1%. Then it goes on to say that for 2014, 3.1 billion was spent on AIDS/HIV which was one fifth of the total foreign aid spent. So from that I would extrapolate about 15-16 billion was spent on foreign aid that year.

and you are ok with that? And to the next thing you posted if they weren’t here it would be a non issue. True?

[Jess from VA]

You also need to remove any economic assistance or benefits of any kind for illegals.

Including emergency room visits, without cash.

And you'll have to work harder at punishing persons and companies for hiring them for work.

That sounds pretty bad, but what we are doing now is not working (at all).

All this disincentive-ising is as important as a wall (and ICE).  

I agree with the punishing companies (and individuals) for employing illegals. I strongly disagree with refusing emergency medical attention for illegals and their children. Do we really want to be so heartless as a society that we let children die ? (That's a rhetorical question, I'm afraid of your answer)

All financial incentives must be removed, or minimized.

You should be afraid of my answer.... but you and I know that would never happen.  And even if the G and/or health industry bore down on this issue (and they never would), the ER's would take cash, and if the illegals only had $5, the ER would only charge $5 (to give lip service to the enforcement record keeping).

But just so I'm being clear, I don't think ER's should take anyone who can't pay (not just illegals), so long as all those costs get passed on to those of us with (skyrocketing) insurance, or jobs, or cash (because they do).

And ER's particularly have been highly abused by everyone for decades, using them for minor injuries or dizziness or drunkenness, or pain meds, psychosis, neurosis and on and on.  It has driven costs for those of us who have jobs and insurance (and don't abuse ER's) to astronomical levels.  And you can throw in local ambulance service to this abuse equation too.

Many ER's now just go out of business and cease operating because of this systematic abuse.  

I won't go to one unless I'm dying.... but if I am dying I'd like one to be available to me (even at exorbitant cost).  I have insurance, and I have cash, and I can pay my way, however reluctantly.