Illinois shooting

[DirtyDan]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/fbi-atf-responding-active-shooter-situation-reported-illinois-205013616--abc-news-topstories.html

Dan

[cookiedough]

we had an active shooter either August/September of 2018 one mile down the road from us while at work in Madison WI.  we were on lockdown for a few hours and found out police arrived killed him.  Pretty scary stuff indeed never safe anywhere anymore. 

[da prez]

Just down the road from us. Still no motive. And people still have the balls to condemn the police.

              da prez

[Serk]

I feel for the victims, but....

the shooter wasn't a white male, and didn't use an AR15, thus it'll disappear from the news cycle quickly.

Doesn't fit the narrative.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I feel for the victims, but....

the shooter wasn't a white male, and didn't use an AR15, thus it'll disappear from the news cycle quickly.

Doesn't fit the narrative.

Sadly, this is becoming commonplace. The public is numb to these incidences anymore.

[cookiedough]

more and more places of work are holding active shooter training with the local police depts.   I suggest anyone who works for a somewhat larger to mid sized company suggest to HR and mgmt. to hold an active shooter class which takes a tad bit too long for us being 4 hours, but you can get the basics down of what to suggest to do in 1-2 hours of listening and doing actual hand to hand combat (fake) with the local police.  Just do not not what I did and nearly knock the lady police officer backwards almost making her fall backwards down.   She said come at her 1/2 throttle but I guess I put near full throttle on her....

I bet the local statistics show that most active shooters are younger (under age 30) holding a grudge of some sort or mentally unstable and not to be a racist, but pushing 1/2 not white where the minority employed are near 1/2 of all active shooters.  There are some real a-hole bosses/superiors out there, had them several times,  but not enough to make me want to shoot him/her, but instead quit which I have a few times after a few months of putting up with their B.S.  Life is too short to work for such a-hole bosses for very long, so instead of getting even,  leave on  your own accord and leave them hanging.   A few places I have worked have seen every few months that same job posted and HR/Mgmt. has to wake up and find out the REAL reason why so many are leaving for that same job every few months.  Most of the same jobs pop up every few months either because the environment/working conditions are sub-par either needing more workers/overworked or needing the right tools to do the job effectively or their bosses are jerks. 

[Serk]

Still no motive.

He was being laid off...

[Gavin_Sons]

I feel for the victims, but....

the shooter wasn't a white male, and didn't use an AR15, thus it'll disappear from the news cycle quickly.

Doesn't fit the narrative.

Sadly, this is becoming commonplace. The public is numb to these incidences anymore.

It does not have to be commonplace. The news should report this just as they report the use of AR-15's in shootings.

[bassman]

Heard ONE report the gun had a laser on it......”if true”  it shouldn’t be long until a ban is called on them

[MarkT]

Heard ONE report the gun had a laser on it......”if true”  it shouldn’t be long until a ban is called on them

More than that - it will become the new "copycat" active shooter accessory just like ARs did - before the knee-jerk gun banners come out with the new prohibitions.  Then it will be red-dots.  They keep blaming specific gun parts when the problem is really our society and poor upbringing and liberal anti-gun teaching in schools not to mention all the drama publicity news reports motivating unstable malcontents.

[Skinhead]

"Little information about Martin was immediately available. It was not immediately clear whether he has a criminal record in Illinois. WLS reported that Martin was convicted of felony aggravated assault in Mississippi in 1995. Ziman said that investigators were "looking into his criminal history...that's being done as we speak."

^^If true, how could this have happened?  Isn't there a gun law that prohibits convicted felons from owning firearms?  And doesn't Illinois have some other strict guns laws that would make such an incident illegal?  This guy Martin is in a lot of trouble.

[phideux]

more and more places of work are holding active shooter training with the local police depts.   I suggest anyone who works for a somewhat larger to mid sized company suggest to HR and mgmt. to hold an active shooter class which takes a tad bit too long for us being 4 hours, but you can get the basics down of what to suggest to do in 1-2 hours of listening and doing actual hand to hand combat (fake) with the local police.  Just do not not what I did and nearly knock the lady police officer backwards almost making her fall backwards down.   She said come at her 1/2 throttle but I guess I put near full throttle on her....

I bet the local statistics show that most active shooters are younger (under age 30) holding a grudge of some sort or mentally unstable and not to be a racist, but pushing 1/2 not white where the minority employed are near 1/2 of all active shooters.  There are some real a-hole bosses/superiors out there, had them several times,  but not enough to make me want to shoot him/her, but instead quit which I have a few times after a few months of putting up with their B.S.  Life is too short to work for such a-hole bosses for very long, so instead of getting even,  leave on  your own accord and leave them hanging.   A few places I have worked have seen every few months that same job posted and HR/Mgmt. has to wake up and find out the REAL reason why so many are leaving for that same job every few months.  Most of the same jobs pop up every few months either because the environment/working conditions are sub-par either needing more workers/overworked or needing the right tools to do the job effectively or their bosses are jerks. 

Active shooter training should take minutes. Pull out your weapon and shoot back. Except the vast majority of places where these shooting take place actually disarm the legal, law abiding folks before they can come in, and then do nothing to protect them from this happening.

[Jess from VA]

This guy Martin is in a lot of trouble.

Nope, his troubles are over (in this world).  

The gunman, identified as Gary Martin, 45, was killed by responding police officers,

And.... Gary Martin had a violent criminal history in Mississippi, where he was convicted of aggravated felony assault for stabbing a woman.

[old2soon]

           Makes ZERO difference the perp is a Convicted Felon the gun grabbers have more ammunition in their arsenal against honest law abiding citizens. Scary gun even scarier laser sighting and scarier yet more than 5 rounds. With ALL the laws on the books in Illinois-a very democrat run stronghold-a BAD GUY Still slips thru the cracks and lays his hand on a firearm. And Yet STRANGER still "they"-pick a group-wanna paint ALL honest Law Abiding CITIZENS with the same brush! DUMB ASSES. I'll Pray for the families affected by this senseless shooting BUT full grown REAL MEN can figure stuff out with out resorting to shootings. Makes ME wonder if one good guy with a firearm might could have turned this situation around. RIDE SAFE.

[phideux]

"Little information about Martin was immediately available. It was not immediately clear whether he has a criminal record in Illinois. WLS reported that Martin was convicted of felony aggravated assault in Mississippi in 1995. Ziman said that investigators were "looking into his criminal history...that's being done as we speak."

^^If true, how could this have happened?  Isn't there a gun law that prohibits convicted felons from owning firearms?  And doesn't Illinois have some other strict guns laws that would make such an incident illegal?  This guy Martin is in a lot of trouble.

So another felon breaking several laws with an illegal, and illegally acquired weapon, the liberal and democratic solution will be?????
More gun laws and taking guns away from the legal law abiding folks.

[Jess from VA]

There have been a lot of workplace shootings over the years.  Remember the post offices?

The thing that always sticks in my mind is that if it has to do with work policies or conditions, or firing or layoffs (which I think is the case, or why bother going to work to do the deed?), this nearly always has to do with management decisions.  Your co-workers have to deal with the same crap you do.  So why go down and randomly shoot up your co-workers?  Just because there's more of them around?

Insanity and derangement rarely means you lose all your abilities at rational thought or simple judgment.

It must just be laziness.   And childish temper tantrums. 

[¿spoom]

Still no motive.

He was being laid off...

AURORA, Ill. (AP) The Latest on the mass shooting at a warehouse in Aurora, Illinois (all times local):

12:15 p.m.

Authorities say the man who killed five co-workers at a suburban Chicago manufacturing warehouse brought his gun to a meeting in which he was going to be fired.

Aurora police Chief Kristen Ziman said Saturday that because 45-year-old Gary Martin brought his gun to Friday's meeting, it's likely he knew there was a chance he would be fired, though she doesn't know exactly what he had been told or why he was fired.

Ziman says Martin pulled the gun and began shooting right after he was fired. She says three of the five Henry Pratt Co. co-workers he killed were in the room with him and the other two were just outside. A sixth male worker was shot but survived.

Police say Martin also shot and wounded five police officers before officers killed him.

___

Noon

Police say the fired worker who killed five people at a warehouse in Aurora, Illinois, was able to buy the gun he used because an initial background check didn't catch that he had a prior felony conviction in Mississippi.

Aurora police Chief Kristen Ziman said Saturday that Gary Martin was issued a firearm owner's identification card in January of 2014 after he passed the initial background check.

She says he bought the Smith and Wesson .40-caliber handgun on March 11, 2014, and that his 1995 felony conviction for aggravated assault in Mississippi wasn't flagged until he applied for a concealed carry permit five days later. That application process includes vetting using a more rigorous digital fingerprinting system.

[Skinhead]

This guy Martin is in a lot of trouble.

Nope, his troubles are over (in this world). 

The gunman, identified as Gary Martin, 45, was killed by responding police officers,

And.... Gary Martin had a violent criminal history in Mississippi, where he was convicted of aggravated felony assault for stabbing a woman.

Sorry Jess, I should have used the non-existent sarcasm font, I knew he was dead.  I was trying to make a point of how useless and ineffective gun laws are because there are no legal repercussions that apply to a corpse.

[Willow]

"Active shooter'"  I've always been a bit amused at the  term.  If he's (or she's) not yet active he isn't a shooter.  After he's stopped being active is he still a shooter?  Why add the adjective?  Isn't shooter enough?  Is the implication that all gun owners are shooters just waiting to become active?

Don't use the term.  It carries a thought we need not buy into.

[Skinhead]

"Active shooter'"  I've always been a bit amused at the  term.  If he's (or she's) not yet active he isn't a shooter.  After he's stopped being active is he still a shooter?  Why add the adjective?  Isn't shooter enough?  Is the implication that all gun owners are shooters just waiting to become active?

Don't use the term.  It carries a thought we need not buy into.

There you go Carl, getting all Englishy on us.

[Serk]

"Active shooter'"  I've always been a bit amused at the  term.  If he's (or she's) not yet active he isn't a shooter.  After he's stopped being active is he still a shooter?  Why add the adjective?  Isn't shooter enough?  Is the implication that all gun owners are shooters just waiting to become active?

Don't use the term.  It carries a thought we need not buy into.

I think the purpose of that term is more along the lines of during the event to distinguish to first responders that the call isn't that there has BEEN a shooting, but that there is an ongoing, and thus active shooting...

Of course, even using my feeble understanding of the terminology, once the shooter has stopped shooting for whatever reason, then it would no longer be an active shooter situation...

(Just don't get me started on "assault weapon" linguistic pretzels...)

But that's just my take on the linguistics of the situation

[Jess from VA]

IL, the gun loving state (not).

Gives the convicted felon a FOID card, and lets him buy a new gun.  (well done)

Then discovers the conviction when he applies for a CCW five days later.  (So presumably, Mississippi did put the conviction in the system)

They disapprove the CCW, but take no action to charge him with the crime he had to commit (lying about the felony conviction on the gun purchase), or to recover the unlawfully possessed firearm.

If you cannot figure out and enforce existing laws, why do you want more (restrictive gun) laws?  (A rhetorical question, we know why.)

The survivors of the murdered employees would seem to have decent wrongful death cases (and the wounded police officers may have actionable cases too).  

One wonders why he was being fired.  He took his gun to the meeting.  Had he been violent/threatening at work?  Maybe a metal detector in HR is a worthwhile investment.

PS: The Six prior arrests in Aurora are not relevant to convictions.   (unless there were any)

[¿spoom]

Latest update;
AURORA, Ill. (AP) The man who killed five co-workers and wounded another and five police officers at a suburban Chicago manufacturing warehouse brought his gun to a meeting in which he was going to be fired, authorities said Saturday.

Because Gary Martin brought his gun to Friday's meeting at the sprawling Henry Pratt Co. warehouse in Aurora, he likely knew it was possible he was about to lose the job he had held for 15 years, police Chief Kristen Ziman said at a news conference.

Ziman said she didn't know what had been conveyed to Martin, why he was being fired or whether he had shown up for his regular shift or was there just for the meeting. But she said as soon as he was fired, he pulled his handgun and began shooting. Three of the five co-workers he killed were in the room with him and the other two were just outside, she said. A sixth employee and five police officers were shot but survived.

Frantic calls to 911 started pouring in from frightened workers at 1:24 p.m. and officers arrived at the scene within four minutes, authorities said. Martin fired on the officers when they arrived, striking one outside and another near the building's entrance. The other three wounded officers were shot inside the building. None of their wounds are considered life-threatening, Ziman said Saturday.

All of the officers who were wounded were shot within the first five minutes of police arriving at the scene, authorities said. Martin then hid inside the 29,000-square-foot building and a search ensued. He fired on an officer about an hour later and police fired back, killing him, authorities said.

Police identified the five slain workers as human resources manager Clayton Parks of Elgin; human resources intern and Northern Illinois University student Trevor Wehner of DeKalb; plant manager Josh Pinkard of Oswego; mold operator Russell Beyer of Yorkville; and stock room attendant and fork lift operator Vicente Juarez of Oswego.

The wounded worker, whose name wasn't released, was taken to a hospital with injuries that were not life-threatening. A sixth police officer suffered a knee injury during the search of the building.

Martin had been arrested six times in Aurora over the years, including for domestic battery, Ziman said.

He was able to buy the Smith and Wesson .40-caliber handgun he used in the attack because an initial background check didn't catch that he had a prior felony conviction in Mississippi, the chief said. Martin was issued a firearm owner's identification card in January of 2014 after he passed the initial background check and he bought the gun that March 11.

It wasn't until he applied for a concealed carry permit five days later and went through a more rigorous background check that uses digital fingerprinting that his 1995 felony conviction in Mississippi for aggravated battery was flagged and his firearm owner's ID card was revoked, she said.

The shooting shocked the city of 200,000, which is about 40 miles (65 kilometers) west of Chicago.

"For so many years, we have seen similar situations throughout our nation and the horrible feeling that we get when we see it on the news. To experience it first-hand, is even more painful," said Aurora Mayor Richard C. Irvin said Friday.

Resident Christy Fonseca said she often worries about some of the gang-related crimes and shootings around her mother's Aurora neighborhood. But she never expected the type of phone call she got from her mom on Friday, warning her to be careful with an active shooter loose in the town.

Police cars with screaming sirens revved past her as she drove to her mother's house, where the Henry Pratt building is visible from the porch stoop. It was only when they flipped on the television news that they realized Martin had killed people just a few hundred feet away.

"In Aurora, period, we'd never thought anything like this would happen," Fonseca, a lifelong resident, said as she looked out at the warehouse where Henry Pratt makes valves for industrial purposes.

At Acorn Woods Condominiums where Martin lived, a mix of brick apartments and condos nestled on a quiet street just a mile and a half from the shooting, neighbors gathered on sidewalks near Martin's unit talking and wondering among themselves if they knew or had come in contact with him.

Mary McKnight stepped out of her car with a cherry cheesecake purchased for her son's birthday, to find a flurry of police cars, officers and media trucks.

"This is a strange thing to come home to, right," she said. She had just learned that the shooter lived close by and his unit in the complex had been taped off by police.

Asked if Martin's rampage had been a "classic" workplace shooting, police chief Ziman said:

"I don't know. We can only surmise with a gentleman that's being terminated that this was something he intended to do."

[old2soon]

       As stated my Brother Ross-A K A da prez-lives not far from the shooting scene. He also related to me thru phone calls zackly how much FUN he had acquiring his F O I card up there. We went to the Gun Counter in a big box store couple years ago and being as I was from out of state the clerk could Not hand me the weapon directly but Could hand the weapon to my Brother who then could hand it to me and Ross also assumed ALL responsibility for said weapon while in my possession. 2 LEGAL gun owning Adults and at that particular store anywho-we were put thru the paces or hoops as I just related. Sorry-can't recall the name of the store but I'll ask Ross and he or I will post that name back.            With All That bein said HOW ZACKLY did this particular turd slip thru the cracks? Inquiring minds and likea dat. RIDE SAFE.

[RP#62]

Where I work, we have CBT (computer based training) courses that must be taken periodically.  I was scrolling through the various classes that I was overdue on and one of them was "active shooter training".  I remember thinking cool, I'm an active shooter, I'm out out the range all the time, maybe its marksmanship tips.  Wasn't at all what I expected.

-RP

[cookiedough]

most of what the police said in active shooter situations is get as far away as possible ASAP even breaking glass windows to get outta there NOW.  If unable to,  hiding is not always your best strategy.  If you know he/she might come in your room at work,  shut all the lights off, lock the door, hide by the door with 2-3 of you, and all at once subdue him/her going for the GUN first thing with both hands on the gun or gun area/hand.  Once the gun is away,  2-3 people should be able to hold him/her down and beat the living snot out of them if he/she fights back.    But, hoping ONLY 1 shooter and not 2-3, then not good.  Most are single individuals though who are probably mentally unstable which in this day and age there are way, way too many.

Unfortunately, 99% of places allow no guns at work or in the building at all.  Not sure it will be upheld, but have heard lots of places if you bring a gun on the premises while at work even leaving it in your car in the parking lot,  can be fired over that.  Not sure that is true though or not?  I say if left in your vehicle then is on your property even if on the land of the working place.

[baldo]

Unfortunately, 99% of places allow no guns at work or in the building at all.  Not sure it will be upheld, but have heard lots of places if you bring a gun on the premises while at work even leaving it in your car in the parking lot,  can be fired over that.  Not sure that is true though or not?  I say if left in your vehicle then is on your property even if on the land of the working place.

It's true. At Fedex, you can't have a firearm in your vehicle on company property. It's a terminating offense, zero tolerance. A mechanic in Memphis just lost his job for this reason. He took his wife's car to work, her gun was in the trunk. He didn't know.

They should also ban spear guns....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

[DirtyDan]

Spear guns..........

Really ?

Dan

[baldo]

Spear guns..........

Really ?

Dan

Did you open the link and read it?

[DirtyDan]

Yes .........

Still spearguns?

Dan

[baldo]

Yes .........

Dan

Crazy, huh?
That plane is still in use....N306FE. I had it on my gate last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtAXaWBFbRQ

[cookiedough]

Unfortunately, 99% of places allow no guns at work or in the building at all.  Not sure it will be upheld, but have heard lots of places if you bring a gun on the premises while at work even leaving it in your car in the parking lot,  can be fired over that.  Not sure that is true though or not?  I say if left in your vehicle then is on your property even if on the land of the working place.

It's true. At Fedex, you can't have a firearm in your vehicle on company property. It's a terminating offense, zero tolerance. A mechanic in Memphis just lost his job for this reason. He took his wife's car to work, her gun was in the trunk. He didn't know.

They should also ban spear guns....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

Personally IMO,  I think if you have say a deer rifle or shotgun inside a case in your car backseat or trunk or wherever and even if  you bring your car into work parking lot and someone sees the case sealed up laying in your backseat, etc.,  it is YOUR property inside YOUR car as long as it stays in YOUR car it should not matter and no being fired should happen.  Once you take that case OUT of your car,  fine, be terminated then.