Midwest floods

[Moonshot_1]

I'm sure most of you have heard about the flooding in the midwest. I'm in the Sioux City Iowa area (about 45 miles NE) and its been pretty substantial. We have a river that runs through the town and the water rose more than I have ever seen it. Lots more water to come from up north. We don't get a lot of damage anymore as the town, years ago, had a FEMA program to move at risk houses out of the flood plain. Now much is green space. Still a pain in the butt.

Anyway, the real problem is the roads. Many are not only underwater but many have been washed out.
Some major roads have been destroyed. Particularly in Nebraska. Fremont, NE, a fairly good sized town, was completely cut off a couple days ago. Don't know if it has receded for them yet.

Point to the post is about the roads in the midwest and if you have travel plans that will take you through Iowa and Nebraska this summer. Have a close look at the routes as there will be much construction and some roads may be simply closed till the road departments can get to them.

This is how bad it is in Omaha. Much of Offutt is underwater. https://www.omaha.com/news/military/air-force-gives-up-fight-to-stop-water-at-offutt/article_631f9b34-5271-50e8-b5eb-19f488daaf32.html?fbclid=IwAR0k8AhIJMvR7BQO2PAIrw77TV2h5e_KTGBD2h06D9owt5SxfjT0W2bFs1s

Once the flood waters recede, we'll get to see the carnage. We're going to have some here for sure.

[Pappy!]

Very sorry to hear about this. A lot of misery comes with flooding.

[Rams]

I know several people/families that live in flood prone areas.   They like being and living near the river or creek.    I have a hard time finding sympathy for folks that live anywhere near a hundred year flood plain.    Feel the same way about beach front homes.   The same folks get flooded out all the time and then expect everyone else to help them.    Once maybe, twice, not happening.

I understand the misery that comes along with flooded or washed out roads and do support efforts to improve the options for those roads but............

Yeah, I know, this is one of those subjects hard asses take a beating.   Helmet and flak vest on.   Let the beatings begin.

Rams

[Moonshot_1]

I know several people/families that live in flood prone areas.   They like being and living near the river or creek.    I have a hard time finding sympathy for folks that live anywhere near a hundred year flood plain.    Feel the same way about beach front homes.   The same folks get flooded out all the time and then expect everyone else to help them.    Once maybe, twice, not happening.

I understand the misery that comes along with flooded or washed out roads and do support efforts to improve the options for those roads but............

Yeah, I know, this is one of those subjects hard asses take a beating.   Helmet and flak vest on.   Let the beatings begin.

Rams

Probably shouldn't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

I can see your point in some cases.

But a lot of folks live in these areas because its the only thing they can afford at the time. Speaking from personal experience here. Young couple with a couple of kids you go with what you can afford. Sometimes its a risk. We lucked out.

[Rams]

I know several people/families that live in flood prone areas.   They like being and living near the river or creek.    I have a hard time finding sympathy for folks that live anywhere near a hundred year flood plain.    Feel the same way about beach front homes.   The same folks get flooded out all the time and then expect everyone else to help them.    Once maybe, twice, not happening.

I understand the misery that comes along with flooded or washed out roads and do support efforts to improve the options for those roads but............

Yeah, I know, this is one of those subjects hard asses take a beating.   Helmet and flak vest on.   Let the beatings begin.

Rams

Probably shouldn't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

I can see your point in some cases.

But a lot of folks live in these areas because its the only thing they can afford at the time. Speaking from personal experience here. Young couple with a couple of kids you go with what you can afford. Sometimes its a risk. We lucked out.

There are exceptions to every rule but, I don't believe I'm painting with all that broad of a brush.  We all make decisions in life, all have consequences.   Living in a flood prone area or on a beach is a bad decision with a pretty reliable consequence eventually.    Been there, done that.    

Rams

[Willow]

... I don't believe I'm painting with all that broad of a brush.  ...    

Perhaps not with too broad a brush but certainly with personally skewed perspective.  We all want to badge ourselves for making the practical choices while others may see it differently.

Consider maybe the non-riding person who hears of a motorcyclist's life and well being saved by expensive medical attention.  Such a person might hold the opinion that the rider knew that motorcycles are dangerous and should have been left to his expected consequences.  That medical expense could be used on someone who needed it through no fault of his own.

We all make our choices.  Some make sense to others.  Some don't.  We should  be careful not to validate ourselves by believing that anyone who makes choices different than our own deserves whatever life and chance delivers to him.

     

[Rams]

... I don't believe I'm painting with all that broad of a brush.  ...    

Perhaps not with too broad a brush but certainly with personally skewed perspective.  We all want to badge ourselves for making the practical choices while others may see it differently.

Consider maybe the non-riding person who hears of a motorcyclist's life and well being saved by expensive medical attention.  Such a person might hold the opinion that the rider knew that motorcycles are dangerous and should have been left to his expected consequences.  That medical expense could be used on someone who needed it through no fault of his own.

We all make our choices.  Some make sense to others.  Some don't.  We should  be careful not to validate ourselves by believing that anyone who makes choices different than our own deserves whatever life and chance delivers to him.

     

Noted.
As I said, been there, done that.   Opinions will always vary.

Rams

[Oldfishguy]

A lot of snow in Minnesota too this winter.  We had a quick thaw last week and from an informal estimate I’d say 30% of the homes had water where it shouldn’t be.  And with about half the snow remaining the next weeks high temps will send the water down river;  more water is about to pass, probably more than many can handle.

As far as building in a flood plain, my thoughts are most are just nieve.  We learned from our first house about clay soil and building on a down slope.  Nievity. 

As far as the analogy relating to motorcycles, I don’t think it really applies.  We know the game we play is slightly more hazards than a car, but we all know entering the game.

[Wizzard]

A lot of snow in Minnesota too this winter.  We had a quick thaw last week and from an informal estimate I’d say 30% of the homes had water where it shouldn’t be.  And with about half the snow remaining the next weeks high temps will send the water down river;  more water is about to pass, probably more than many can handle.

As far as building in a flood plain, my thoughts are most are just nieve.  We learned from our first house about clay soil and building on a down slope.  Nievity. 

As far as the analogy relating to motorcycles, I don’t think it really applies.  We know the game we play is slightly more hazards than a car, but we all know entering the game.

As well does the person that moves to a flood plain.

[Gryphon Rider]

I know several people/families that live in flood prone areas.   They like being and living near the river or creek.    I have a hard time finding sympathy for folks that live anywhere near a hundred year flood plain.    Feel the same way about beach front homes.   The same folks get flooded out all the time and then expect everyone else to help them.    Once maybe, twice, not happening.

I understand the misery that comes along with flooded or washed out roads and do support efforts to improve the options for those roads but............

Yeah, I know, this is one of those subjects hard asses take a beating.   Helmet and flak vest on.   Let the beatings begin.

Rams

Probably shouldn't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

I can see your point in some cases.

But a lot of folks live in these areas because its the only thing they can afford at the time. Speaking from personal experience here. Young couple with a couple of kids you go with what you can afford. Sometimes its a risk. We lucked out.

There are exceptions to every rule but, I don't believe I'm painting with all that broad of a brush.  We all make decisions in life, all have consequences.   Living in a flood prone area or on a beach is a bad decision with a pretty reliable consequence eventually.    Been there, done that.    

Rams

Like south of Calgary, a residential community was built on a flood plain in a town called High River.  The predictable happened.

[MarkT]

Both sides of this coin are valid.  When we bought our house in '96 - the one we are in now - not being in a flood zone was priority.  We also got a great price on it and now it's worth more than twice what we paid.  Lucked out on that one but the bad side is the whole NE Colorado area is the hottest housing market in the country and we are getting swarmed with mostly liberal immigrants from CA. We moved here 32 years ago from WI when CO was solidly red. We've seen the liberals change the demographics and the state went from red to blue to pink and good luck with your guns when the snowflakes get that steamroller moving.  Just 5 miles west of us a huge housing development went in to the Cherry Creek flood plain and the adjacent hills - the hills area - Pradera - is upscale, has been the site of the Parade of Homes event a couple of times with million dollar CEO homes. With interspersed golf course.  The flood plain development is your typical entry level sardine can houses.  Picture the Little Boxes song by Pete Seeger.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0



That housing development is in bottomland of the creek upstream of the Cherry Creek reservoir which was dammed / created by the Army Corps of Engineers to prevent future 100-year Cherry Creek floods like the one that wiped out Denver in 1864 and again in 1878 and again in 1933.

https://www.theclio.com/web/entry?id=21844

https://sites.google.com/site/denvercountycogenweb/books/history-of-the-city-of-denver/the-great-flood-of-1864



 The folks who bought there are either ignorent of the danger or are risk takers or were just attracted by the pricing.  However there is competitive housing available sans the threat.  I believe it's mostly ignorence and poor priorities.  I have a saying - if you make it your regular habit to play on the tracks tempting fate sooner or later you will get run over by a train.  We bought a place on a 3 acre piece of land with plenty of space between neighbors on a hilltop with no flood possibility, at a price lower than those sardine cans.  And we have a piece of LAND.  Not to mention the breathing room.  Worth much more to me than a Ticky Tacky house that will wear out, on a postage stamp lot with your side window 8 feet from the neighbor's window, built on a flood plain.  Don't need a power mower - but you better get at least a reel one to mow your 100 sq ft lawn or you'll have the HOA knocking at your door - and forget painting your house anything but the 5 approved pastel shades or putting up a flag pole. Better plan a big chunk of your budget for flood insurance - if you can even get a policy. Pure foolishness - not a responsible decision, IMHO. Did I mention the breathing room?

[Wizzard]

My daughter is an architect and lived in Aurora for 6 years and designed many 1 mil dollar homes in Cherry Creek. Yes its a flood plain is it not?

[Jess from VA]

Major flooding in Africa as well.

[Dave Ritsema]

I feel bad for anyone in this situation. Flooding brings misery to all involved. While some may knowingly live in a flood prone area many victims do not and are still affected. Here in the midwest we have had several "thousand year" flood events in the last five years and the majority of those involved did not live in established flood plains nor did they have any reason they would be in a flood effected area when they purchased their home. No judgement from me on anyone's situation, only sympathy. Flooding sucks.

[MarkT]

I agree - feel bad for them.  And in fact anyone who gets flooded.  Just sayin - these folks in the Cherry Creek flood plain nearby are clearly 'playing on the tracks' as it were - and some may not know it while others are perhaps gamblers with their lives.  As I said - I know the history of flooding in Colorado and I give a priority to locating well away from bottomland.  Another one comes to mind - the Big Thompson paleoflood of 1976 - "most deadly natural disaster in Colorado's history" - occured a few years after I left the area and returned in 87.  Killed 144 people.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgqW8vGeO9U

http://blogs.denverpost.com/library/2012/07/31/big-thompson-flood-disaster-colorado-1976/2795/

It killed a lot of people - and now 43 years later you can still see evidence of it.  Other big Colorado floods are mentioned in the above Denver Post archive article.

Michael Parks - Jim Bronson - immortalized the flood with his song 'Big T Water'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObY5Sp38xeA

[Dave Ritsema]

I agree - feel bad for them.  And in fact anyone who gets flooded.  Just sayin - these folks in the Cherry Creek flood plain nearby are clearly 'playing on the tracks' as it were - and some may not know it while others are perhaps gamblers with their lives.  As I said - I know the history of flooding in Colorado and I give a priority to locating well away from bottomland.  Another one comes to mind - the Big Thompson paleoflood of 1976 - "most deadly natural disaster in Colorado's history" - occured a few years after I left the area and returned in 87.  Killed 144 people.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgqW8vGeO9U

http://blogs.denverpost.com/library/2012/07/31/big-thompson-flood-disaster-colorado-1976/2795/

It killed a lot of people - and now 43 years later you can still see evidence of it.  Other big Colorado floods are mentioned in the above Denver Post archive article.

Michael Parks - Jim Bronson - immortalized the flood with his song 'Big T Water'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObY5Sp38xeA

Wow Mark....You gave me a flashback there.

I used to spend summers in Estes Park and after the Big Thompson Flood went down there and volunteered in search and rescue operations for several days after the flood. We were only 16 and it was the first time I had ever seen a dead person. (Outside a funeral home.) I am sure that was what inspired me to be a firefighter after I became an adult. Thanks for posting this.

[cookiedough]

building homes, etc. in a known flood plain should be illegal or at the very least NOT allowed by the zoning.  You know floods will happen eventually and even if have a sump pump like I do,  if water is rushing up top thru your home upstairs (not the basement where sump pump is)  not  much can be done.

I live in low lying subdivision where sump pump is required.  If not,  I would have 1 inch to over 2 feet in my basement during very heavy rainfalls.    This past September 2018 when we got an unheard of 12 inches or more of rain in 24 hours my sump pump was running NON STOP all the time for over 20 hours straight.  Every 20 seconds to fill back up was running off/on constantly. I have 2 backup sump pumps just in case it fails and has twice now since 1993.  Does NO good though if NOT home like the one time sump pump failed and has 1-2 inches of standing water all over basement floor by the time I got home that same day at night.

Land was cheap in the 90s got my city 100x110 foot lot for 5K.  Now, some 25 years later, same size lots are going for 25K.  Who would have known? 

[Rams]

building homes, etc. in a known flood plain should be illegal or at the very least NOT allowed by the zoning.  You know floods will happen eventually and even if have a sump pump like I do,  if water is rushing up top thru your home upstairs (not the basement where sump pump is)  not  much can be done.

I live in low lying subdivision where sump pump is required.  If not,  I would have 1 inch to over 2 feet in my basement during very heavy rainfalls.    This past September 2018 when we got an unheard of 12 inches or more of rain in 24 hours my sump pump was running NON STOP all the time for over 20 hours straight.  Every 20 seconds to fill back up was running off/on constantly. I have 2 backup sump pumps just in case it fails and has twice now since 1993.  Does NO good though if NOT home like the one time sump pump failed and has 1-2 inches of standing water all over basement floor by the time I got home that same day at night.

Land was cheap in the 90s got my city 100x110 foot lot for 5K.  Now, some 25 years later, same size lots are going for 25K.  Who would have known? 

My question is, regardless of the number of pumps you have, do you have back up power when it fails during a flood event?

Rams

[Moonshot_1]

Couple things to add to the discussion.

About the flooding in the midwest and flood plains and such.

The Flooding in Iowa and Nebraska wasn't just the result of rivers going out of their banks and flooding neighborhoods in obvious places. This was a result of a number of late season blizzards dumping several inches, in some places feet, of snow for a number of weeks followed by nearly a week's worth of torrential rains melting that snow.

There are places miles and miles from any rivers that are inundated and cut off for the first time in memory.

We just had one of our local roads open up. While there was water over the road at one time the thing that kept it closed was ice burgs on the road. Lots and lots of ice burgs that the river pushed up and through farm fields. Been here going on near 40 years. Ain't never seen that before. Huge chunks of ice a couple feet thick. Thousands of them. In a field after the water receded.

They had the road closed and when you looked down the road it looked it had been washed out and destroyed. Nope. Ice Burgs on the road.

[cookiedough]

building homes, etc. in a known flood plain should be illegal or at the very least NOT allowed by the zoning.  You know floods will happen eventually and even if have a sump pump like I do,  if water is rushing up top thru your home upstairs (not the basement where sump pump is)  not  much can be done.

I live in low lying subdivision where sump pump is required.  If not,  I would have 1 inch to over 2 feet in my basement during very heavy rainfalls.    This past September 2018 when we got an unheard of 12 inches or more of rain in 24 hours my sump pump was running NON STOP all the time for over 20 hours straight.  Every 20 seconds to fill back up was running off/on constantly. I have 2 backup sump pumps just in case it fails and has twice now since 1993.  Does NO good though if NOT home like the one time sump pump failed and has 1-2 inches of standing water all over basement floor by the time I got home that same day at night.

Land was cheap in the 90s got my city 100x110 foot lot for 5K.  Now, some 25 years later, same size lots are going for 25K.  Who would have known?  

My question is, regardless of the number of pumps you have, do you have back up power when it fails during a flood event?

Rams

No I do not have backup power if the power goes out.  Been thinking of a battery powered backup sump pump but ever since 1993 our power has never gone out for more than 2-3 hours tops and only like 3 times out briefly in 25 years is all.  We have underground power lines and the electrical company is usually right on it usually say the substation downtown needs fixing or something like that in a storm outage.      There is always 5 gallon buckets dumping water into the washtub sink in basement I guess?  My guess is by the time I needed a battery powered sump pump,  the one time I need it the battery that runs it will be dead in say 10+ years from now?    I have changed the pump out twice and both times NO fun usually ice cold water and aways down in there to unhook the clamps, etc., but can get it done in less than 1 hour or so, assuming the power never goes out for very long.