Suspect a ripoff happening from a shady Toyota dealer. Comments?

[MarkT]

On 06-24 my 2012 4Runner wouldn't start after the truck had not been used for several days.  No circuits had been left on. Voltmeter on battery indicated 6.46v.  Put on automatic 6amp charger in evening, orange light indicated charging.  Checked in morning 06-25, now down to 3.4v, charger has green light.  Replaced bad charger with 6a analog charger, indicated charging at 8A.  Checked several times, by end of day indicated 13.4v w/o charger attached.  Has never been a charge problem with this battery. Appears to be the OEM battery with Toyota branding on this 7yr old 4Runner Limited. Onboard voltmeter (Escort Passport) consistently reads 14.1-3v charging, as it does when plugged into our late model CX5 and Jade.

On 06-26-19 I got an appointment to fix the electrical leak at the Co Springs Toyota dealer I'll call LT here.  On arrival I explained the problem to service advisor Daniel and that I suspect a computer failure is causing the leak; perhaps a power cycle of the computers would correct it.  He said he would replace the battery.  I said I don't believe it's the battery given my engineering background and understanding of the symptoms and suggested they look for an ongoing leak by metering the amps drain between the battery and power cable while using a jumper to prevent loss of presets, and pulling fuses to isolate the leak.  I didn't do that already because their techs have experience with this vehicle and I prefer to hire them rather than get greasy myself.  I will wait for their work in the waiting area.

A half hour later or so (I think it was PB) came to me in the wait area and said they would charge $130 for the diagnostics but not to worry, it will be applied to the repair.

Another wait and a tech comes up and says the battery tests bad so it needs to be replaced.  I said that surprises me, but he's the tech, I'm OK with them replacing it after they confirmed with technical tests.

PB comes up and says they are done, let's finish up the paperwork.

I'm expecting to see on the invoice, the $130 applied to a reasonably priced battery replacement.  Maybe a small install fee as it would take me about 5 minutes to unscrew two cable clamps and a bracket screw, lift out the old battery and set in the new, and reattach the cable clamps and the hold-down bracket.  SURPRISE!  They are keeping the entire $130, calling it "600251  C61" whatever that means but it's not applied to the repair as PB promised.  An install fee for FIVE MINUTES work?  I checked online at other Toyota dealers, pricing on this 00544-24F60-575 TRUESTART battery - most sites say it's DISCONTINUED (TOYOTAPARTSDEAL and Olathe Toyota and many others) and UNAVAILABLE.  However two I found (Camelback Toyota and Frontier Toyota) both still list it at $117.81, sale priced at $112.67 and $109.90 respectively.  LT charged me TWELVE DOLLARS MORE THAN MSRP $129.99, FOR A DISCONTINUED OLD BATTERY.

When I arrived home after this "service" I checked the volts of this "new" battery - it was 12.2v should be 13.5 or so.

Frontier Toyota (and I presume others) has a battery core charge of $20 that is refunded when the core is returned. LT instead charged on the invoice $10.40 for "HAZ WASTE" - making money on the $20 battery core value which they kept while at the same time charging me for disposal.

I have had LT service this truck twice before per my records. 21NOV 18 and 21JAN19.  On the first LT provided a gratis Detail certificate.  On the 2nd service call LT ran the truck through their car wash.  No car wash on this service visit.  

On the 21JAN9 service I received a 10% discount for military service.  Not received this 26JUN19 service.  Apparently I am no longer a veteran. Though the tags on the 4Runner say otherwise.

The bill for the "repair" being for replacing the battery with a DISCONTINUED one for $12 over MSRP per other Toyota dealers online, plus they kept the bogus $130 "diagnostic" charge which they promised to apply to the repair, invoice totalled $281.97.  Installation charge? To disconnect/connect 2 cables and a holddown bracket, I can do in under 5 minutes?

In summary, LT Overcharged for parts and labor, broke their promise on diagnostic credit, sold me OLD DISCONTINUED battery at $12 above MSRP when I didn't need one, no customer appreciation shown by a car wash, no appreciation for preserving their freedom at the risk of my life.

In my business, our Mission Statement emphasizes DELIGHTING THE CUSTOMER WITH SERVICE BEYOND EXPECTED AND PROMISED.  Furthermore, my customer knows he is APPRECIATED FAR MORE THAN THE VALUE OF HIS TRANSACTION.

LT has fallen FAR SHORT of the mark for customer happiness.  They have TWO CHANCES to redeem themselves:  I bought their "TCA Maintenance Plan" in November and two services are not used yet.  At this point, I will buy NOTHING ELSE FROM THEM WITHOUT REDEMPTION.  That includes SERVICE AND VEHICLES.  I have not slammed them yet in public, especially online media, or contacted customer advocates or legal entities. Those actions are not off the table.

I'd say their people more than adequately punished me for giving my opinion the problem was not the battery. I can't figure out why their behavior seems to indicate I am their enemy now, to be screwed. BTW - I am monitoring the voltage frequently.  This morning it was 12.3v - at least 1v low for a new and freshly charged battery.

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On the days following this "service" I monitored the voltage with a Fluke meter.  Dropping even below 12.0v.  The starter cranked slower and slower until on Mon evening 7/1 it wouldn't start, just heard the relay (or Bendix) clicking.  Checked voltage, it was 11.55v.  Immediately went to the computer and scheduled a service for Tue AM.  Put the truck on 6amp analog Rayovac charger at 7pm.  It's meter indicated 8amp charge.  Ran it until midnight, 5 hrs, still at 8amps.  Turned off charger and measured volts - 12.2v.  This "new" battery will not take a full charge from a standard automatic charger.

Tue AM at LT informed them the problem still exists and asked for the service mgr WW. Told him the whole story and they also ripped me off with a discontinued battery for $12 over MSRP.  He focussed on arguing with me, "it's not discontinued they have lots of them".  It has a little date sticker on it indicating when it was made - last year - well that proves it, LA-DE-DA.  Or it proves they can make stickers and stick them on to support their lie.  Google the P/N 00544-24F60-575 and you'll get lots of hits from Toyota dealers saying it's "DISCONTINUED NOT FOR SALE" but I found 2 that at least reported the price which was $117 not the $129.99 LT charged me.  LT sold me old inventory that won't take a full charge at an over-price from when it wasn't yet discontinued.  After I told them several times I don't need a battery the problem is a parasitic electric leak.

My newly assigned srv advisor SZ - after I explained the whole thing so far - said they will cover the diagnostic cost for the first day and also apply the $130 they ripped off from before.  Then she asked, do I have an extended warranty (this is a 2012 4Runner).  I said no; she said well maybe you could buy one and then we can apply it retroactively.  That sounds pretty shady to me, unethical and probably fraud.  Is this not the same as buying fire insurance to cover your burned down house?  She'll go check with the mgr WW if they can do that.  Comes back after wasting another couple hours or so and says, no, WW says if I buy the warranty for hundreds of dollars we have to wait 90 days to apply it (still sounds illegal to me) meanwhile they will only cover 2 hrs of diagnostics plus the hour they ripped off.  And it's supposed to be OK with me for my truck to be down for 3 months.  This was on Tues morning, 7/2.  They had me wait most of the day (I got there at 7) finally they called a Lyft for me to run me home 43 miles.  SZ says she is off until the next Mon.  I told her a couple times, I am expecting a "reasonable" charge for their work - she said I might want to set aside $500 for it.  I didn't comment but I don't expect to pay that much or even close for diagnostics.  They are supposed to know what they are doing.

Meanwhile their story per mgr WW  is they pulled the fuses with a meter in series on the power cable indicating the ongoing leak and it didn't stop when they pulled every fuse.  Hmmm.  My online research indicates this has to find it if you pull all the possible circuit's fuses and these guys are supposed to be the Toyota experts.

They had the truck all day Wed, no status call.  Thu was 7/4.  They had it all day Fri.  Sat I went down there on the bike to pick up my GPS and Escort and Fluke meter I had left in the truck.  Mgr WW walked me back to the truck to get them.  They had several panels off exposing the wires.  He said now with their probing around, they haven't found the leak, now the leak has stopped and they are charging the battery back up at this time. I said "I hate intermittent problems" and "well if it goes away by itself you haven't found and fixed the problem so there's no confidence in the repair". WW introduces me to their sr advisor "Rick" who has taken over for SZ while she is on holiday. He has no info for me.

The truck has been there since then; over the weekend and all day Mon & Tue no status calls.   Meanwhile I have no 4-wheel transportation beyond my Kubota tractor.  Wife is out of state with the Mazda.

I am recording all phone calls and in-person conversations with these yahoos - no trust at all and I am gathering evidence.

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At this point I am leary of this company and it's shady operation and employees.  They have shown dubious ethics and practices.  I don't trust their competence.  I patronize a dealer in situations like this because even though they cost more per hour than my local mechanic, they are supposed to be more familiar with the vehicles; may have seen this problem before or at least have svc advisories/bulletins that my mechanic is not privy to.  I'll add here, I was told by one of the advisors that one of their sr mechanics has a Tundra with the same problem - a parasitic electric leak on his Tundra - and he can't find it in 2 weeks of diagnostics.

I'm not feeling the love, as it were.  I am concerned they are going to bill me based on the clock at $130/hr.  NOT HAPPENING.  I am looking at my options - legal protection, consumer advocates and the like.  I need a card or 2 in my hand if they try to pull that off.

Oh BTW, this truck has NO aftermarket mods.  And GPS, radar are plugged into the lighter sockets which are powered with the ignition.

Comments?

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Hey Mark. Sorry you are dealing with what is the norm nowadays. Let me explain...

I worked at a Chrysler/Jeep/Nissan/Eagle/Renault dealer for about 15 years. By the time I left, Jeep and Chrysler were the only ones left. During the historic takeover of the private sector by the government, Obama's "car czar" ordered DC to shut down about 70% of it's dealers, and mine was one of them. Toyota had just begun the "unintended acceleration" recall, and their dealers were busy, to say the least. My box ended up at my local Toyota dealer, where I stayed for about 6 years. What I discovered there was eye-opening, to say the least. Of the approx 20 techs there, maybe 3 of them could pass an electrical 1 course. As explained to me by one of the career Toyota guys, they had such good vehicles since the 80s, that diagnostics were rare. Really rare. Like, guys asking to borrow my multimeter, and 5 minutes later asking to borrow me, because they were in over their heads.

The concept of amp draw was likely too much for anyone in the shop to comprehend. At least, not completely. I've watched this way too many times: Vehicle comes in with a weak battery, it gets a battery. If it comes back, it gets an alternator. If it comes back, it goes to the shop foreman to figure out what it actually was in the first place.

As far as the battery goes, the dealers get batteries from different sources, depending upon their location. Ours came from the local Interstate dealer, who was an authorized supplier for Toyota. I've seen stickers on top of other stickers on many-a-battery. This is common, since Johnson Controls supplies most of the batteries out there, regardless of brand. Not defending the dealer, but if they ordered a battery for your 4Runner today, they may get exactly what they put in your vehicle already.

Parts pricing... A thorn in my side. Many dealers employ a shady pracice called matrix pricing. Basically, it's a giant scam where if they decide they're not making enough profit, they adjust the pricing up by a percentage. I had many arguments with my parts managers about this being bullshit. It's not 1985, FFS. Anyone can punch a part number right off their RO into Google and find out that you're bending them over dry.

Labor; many places give you the first hour of diag for free; after that, you pay. Apparently, they do not. Sadly, that hour that you paid for likely was an hour of head scratching rather than diagnostics. It seems somewhat apparent that they are grasping at straws, since they have panels off looking for something, yet they claimed they could not isolate any draw source. If they removed every fuse from the fuse box under the hood, the draw would have to be gone, unless there was a draw in the wiring below the box itself. My guess is that they took all of the fuses from the fuse panel under the dash, not the main power box under the hood. That would leave many circuits still intact, which would still show amp draw.

Now that I said all that, good luck. You're gonna need it.