Wing motor with reverse...

[John Schmidt]

Picking up a Wing motor with reverse, 68k miles which usually won't be an issue. I'm only doing it due to the reverse for my trike, if it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth I'll sell it later. It's a later version so has the better innards of the '97 & up models.

My question(s) are first...has anyone done this switch or know of one having been done? I know I'll have to switch out the front cover, might swap the cams(or the heads as a unit). I know there's some wiring to be done and I believe a special component that mounts by the trunk on the Wing. I'll have to compare the gearing of the Wing tranny to the Valk but I'm of the impression that the gearing difference is mostly in the final drive rather than the transmission...may be wrong on that. Doubt I'll get the job done in time for Inzane, depending on the complexity mostly. Looking for input on this.

[Avanti]

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,2634.msg1158773.html#msg1158773

steveB (VRCC UK)

Read this.

[John Schmidt]

You are looking to install the reverse setup into your Valk Trike ?

Yes, if not too much trouble. Probably a winter project, nothing else to do up here during those months. It's the entire motor from a Gold Wing that has the reverse in it, guess I'll find out what's involved but having a reverse in the trike sure would be nice. I have more than ample leg strength to move it around while in the saddle, but there have been times it would have been nice to just be able to flip a lever.  

Just read Avanti's link to Steve's post a while back. Not sure I understand the need to change out the shifting drum if the entire Wing motor is used. The rest I understand but don't like the idea of splitting the case for the drum change, have done it on every version Wing/Valk motor since '75(Wings) & not my idea of a day at the beach. More investigation apparently in store.

[ridingron]

I picked this up somewhere. I would swap the whole motor and use Valk carbs, cams/heads and exhaust. My buddy's '93 Wing's MPG was about 30 at 70 mph.

 

    Bike               Primary       Secondary      Final          1st          2nd         3rd          4th         5th


    Valk                1.591         .971             2.833         2.66        1.72       1.291        1.00       .805

                                                                                     
 '97-'00 Wing           -----         -----            -----        -----       -----         1.272        .964       .758

[John Schmidt]

Ron, if I understand your chart it looks like the Wing top three gears are a slightly lower ratio than the Valk. Probably not a bad change out due to the extra weight of the trike. Not a big deal since I usually only travel around the 70-73mph range anyway.

[Jess from VA]

I think it would be easier to find a woman to ride with you that is strong enough to push it uphill for you when necessary.






I mean that motor and all that work would buy a lot of cheeseburgers. 

[Avanti]

I believe Steve was explaining two different ways to have reverse. The first using the Wing engine and putting Valkyrie parts on it. The second using Wing parts on a Valkyrie engine.

He use the word "could" when explaining what needs to be done to do a reverse conversation on a Valkyrie engine.

"You could use the rear case and associated parts from a Wing but you will still need to split the left and right hand crankcase to exchange the shifter drum."

This is why he used the Wing engine and transferred Valkyrie parts over to the Wing engine.

[ridingron]

 

Ron, if I understand your chart it looks like the Wing top three gears are a slightly lower ratio than the Valk. Probably not a bad change out due to the extra weight of the trike. Not a big deal since I usually only travel around the 70-73mph range anyway.




I picked this up somewhere. I would swap the whole motor and use Valk carbs, cams/heads and exhaust. My buddy's '93 Wing's MPG was about 30 at 70 mph.

 

    Bike               Primary       Secondary      Final          1st          2nd         3rd          4th         5th


    Valk                1.591         .971             2.833         2.66        1.72       1.291        1.00       .805

                                                                                     
 '97-'00 Wing           -----         -----            -----        -----       -----         1.272        .964       .758

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you looking for better MPG or a little more grunt for the heavier Trike?

The Valk is 1 to 1 in fourth gear with an over drive of  .805 in fifth. The motor rpm is lowered.

The Wing is already in overdrive in fourth at .964 and farther in over drive in fifth at .758. The over drive is for better MPG. The overdrive can be too steep as was the problem years ago when someone made a set of replacement gears (4th & 5th). Mario???

I'm not sure if there is final drive ratio difference, but that would need to be factored in if they are different.

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

I used the complete Wing motor - changed the cams, lifters and carbs. You need to use the Valk water pump and the front case it bolts to. You also need to change the inner timing case (behind the cam pinions) as they are larger and chrome plated on the Valk. Gearing is only slightly more relaxed in 4th and 5th and a bit lower in 1st. Ride duo most of the time and can't say it was noticeable. Built 2 Valks with Mario's gears and that's a different story. Used minimal electrics on my build and of course you need a Wing starter motor which fits (just) with a longer cable. Oh and you have to put up with your mates calling it a Winkerie.

[Avanti]

On the Wing engine the motor mounts need to be changed to the Valkyrie type, as Steve also explained.

Thanks for responding Steve.

[Chrisj CMA]

It might be easier to go on vacation to Japan. Find a Japanese valk motor. As I remember the Japan Valkyries were fitted with reverse.

[John Schmidt]

I used the complete Wing motor - changed the cams, lifters and carbs. You need to use the Valk water pump and the front case it bolts to. You also need to change the inner timing case (behind the cam pinions) as they are larger and chrome plated on the Valk. Gearing is only slightly more relaxed in 4th and 5th and a bit lower in 1st. Ride duo most of the time and can't say it was noticeable. Built 2 Valks with Mario's gears and that's a different story. Used minimal electrics on my build and of course you need a Wing starter motor which fits (just) with a longer cable. Oh and you have to put up with your mates calling it a Winkerie.

Winkerie! 
So Steve, do you recall what wiring changes/additions had to be made? I understand the mechanical aspect but in looking at my Wing shop manual there's a load of electrical stuff involved. Seems to be a bit on the complicated side since it has to work with the bike's harness. But when isolated to just that which is involved with activating the reverse, seems to be much less involved. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[John Schmidt]

I think it would be easier to find a woman to ride with you that is strong enough to push it uphill for you when necessary.






I mean that motor and all that work would buy a lot of cheeseburgers. 

Jess, don't go trying to pawn off your old girlfriends on me. 

[Jess from VA]

My 120lb wife could push my dresser Harley backwards (on a shallow incline, with my foot help, for the 6-8 feet I needed). 

She bent way over and got her arms out in front of her on the forks, and a few guys on the sidewalk even clapped.   But I don't think the appreciation was her strength, so much as her jeans.   

[Grey wolf oz]

I think it would be easier to find a woman to ride with you that is strong enough to push it uphill for you when necessary.





hope he at least gave you her number ! 
I mean that motor and all that work would buy a lot of cheeseburgers. 

Jess, don't go trying to pawn off your old girlfriends on me. 

[John Schmidt]

Just one of those gals could come in 1st, 2nd, & 3rd...at the same gig.  Warm in the winter and shady in the summer.  

[steveB (VRCC UK)]

John - from memory the Wing reverse system monitors starter motor temp. times how long the motor is run, speed in reverse, makes sure you are in neutral, and lights a 'reverse' indicator light on the dash.
I worked on the idea that it would be unlikely I would be backing any distance, run the starter so long that I overheated it or tried to put it in gear whilst reversing. So as you can see from the photo's I modified the Wing's mechanical lever and made a simple sprung loaded detent knob. The shift lever is from a dockside crane we were working on at the time. The Wing comes with a sender on the crankcase to light a reverse indicator light so I utilised that. Reversing - make sure you are in neutral pull the detent knob, shift lever to reverse and push starter button. OK no failsafes but it worked for me.

[John Schmidt]

Steve, thanks for the info. I looked in the manual and anything associated with the reverse operation is pages long, I think it can be simplified. I might add some backup lights like a car has...just for kicks, might even install a beeper. 

[Grey wolf oz]

the standard valk comes with a revers option,,,,,,,,




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