Battery

[scooperhsd]

'98 Std Valk.
Tried putting Battery tender on it - no lights.
Put on car charger (that has a 3A setting as well) - indicating SUL - doing a de-sulfate process.

Does this mean the battery is shot ?

[WintrSol]

Any idea how old the battery is?
But, yes, it does sound bad. Take it to a store that sells battery and have it tested.

[scooperhsd]

Any idea how old the battery is?
But, yes, it does sound bad. Take it to a store that sells battery and have it tested.

About 5-6 years - I had it when we arrived in KC Sep 2018. I'm thinking I did good on it....

[h13man]

A tender only puts out usually .75 ma. thus not a good charging source and I know that for a fact.   I used the 2 amp. setting on my bench charger to charge the following unit.


https://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-YUAM3RH4S-Maintence-Free-Battery/dp/B0835MCLNP/ref=asc_df_B0835MCLNP/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642169471090&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10846572220589955518&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016735&hvtargid=pla-1951462932458&psc=1&mcid=22f8ff9f45a13454b85d34ca4d02d08a

[Chrisj CMA]

Any idea how old the battery is?
But, yes, it does sound bad. Take it to a store that sells battery and have it tested.

About 5-6 years - I had it when we arrived in KC Sep 2018. I'm thinking I did good on it....

Good for not buying a battery. Not so good on an alternator to limp an old battery on beyond its days.

[WintrSol]

A tender only puts out usually .75 ma. thus not a good charging source and I know that for a fact.   I used the 2 amp. setting on my bench charger to charge the following unit.

I have two tenders - the 0.75A model and the 1.5A model. The 1.5 is more than adequate for charging a 14AH battery; the 0.75 is not, and just useful for storage or topping up.

[scooperhsd]

I just got back from jumping the Valk with one of the cars. Took a few tries before it started running. Then had a look at the battery terminals - both of them had that white fuzzy stuff, thus indicating battery dead. replacement is supposed to get here tomorrow. I expect to clean the terminals while I'm at it.

[0leman]

Sounds like you may need to do some battery maintenance once in a while.  But then most of us don't pay enough attention to this. 

[VALKHUNTER]

To determine life of battery, see battery date code pressed into battery case.

[LadyDraco]

Battery Mart  has  a  sale  going on right now...

It still sounds  like  it's  time  for  a  new  battery..
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

[-mike-]

I do use a Konnwei BK 100 battery tester.
Reasonable priced, easy to use, reliable measurement.
Measures CCA and IR. No more guessing about battery health. Gives you a fair warning long before you experience starting issues.
Be prepared to have some six-pack-of-beer visits of friends or neighbors if the word spreads you own this thing.









-mike-

[Willow]

...
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

Someone please explain this to me.  Doesn't the alternator turn the same whether it is just running the bike or also charging the battery?

[The emperor has no clothes]

...
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

Someone please explain this to me.  Doesn't the alternator turn the same whether it is just running the bike or also charging the battery?

I'm certainly no electrical expert. But I think the issue is not that it turns more, but that the extra draw on it wears the brushes and rotor more.

[RNFWP]

...
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

Someone please explain this to me.  Doesn't the alternator turn the same whether it is just running the bike or also charging the battery?

I'm certainly no electrical expert. But I think the issue is not that it turns more, but that the extra draw on it wears the brushes and rotor more.

I'm no expert either. Would like to hear from one of our knowledgeable folks.
It's also my understanding that increased electrical current output requires more mechanical input from the engine. Say 750 watts takes 1hp but 1500 watts needs 2hp from the engine. (Made up numbers) With  increased alternator load it also generates more heat and wear. I think there are lots of variables, rpms being a big one.

[Willow]

...
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

Someone please explain this to me.  Doesn't the alternator turn the same whether it is just running the bike or also charging the battery?

I'm certainly no electrical expert. But I think the issue is not that it turns more, but that the extra draw on it wears the brushes and rotor more.

I'm no expert either. Would like to hear from one of our knowledgeable folks.
It's also my understanding that increased electrical current output requires more mechanical input from the engine. Say 750 watts takes 1hp but 1500 watts needs 2hp from the engine. (Made up numbers) With  increased alternator load it also generates more heat and wear. I think there are lots of variables, rpms being a big one.

My understanding is there is no transmission in the alternator.  That is everyone's knowledge.  It either turns or does not.  It turns by the power of the engine.  It does not take more or less.  For the bike to run on the output of the alternator it must be turning.  As the battery needs to be charged it takes from the alternator even as the electrical system of the engine takes from the alternator.

I do not understand the claim that the alternator works harder when the battery needs to be charged more.

[Pluggy]

Short explanation for Willow.  The shaft of the alternator turns a set of electromagnets (the rotor) iinside of a coil  (the stator).  Electricity is produced when the magnetic field carried by the rotor magnets is transferred to the stator. 

The force to turn those magents is proportionate to the demand for electric power. Pulling more power from the stator requires more mechanical force to turn the rotor.  That's why a 1963 Ford engine slows a bit when turning on alll electrical accessories. 

A weak battery will require a little more alternator output.  Added lights and accessories require more power, sometimes a lot more.  The alternator is about 60% efficient, so more heat is generated when the power requirement goes up.  A common failure is heat breaking down some part or material inside the alternator.

[Willow]

Short explanation for Willow.  The shaft of the alternator turns a set of electromagnets (the rotor) iinside of a coil  (the stator).  Electricity is produced when the magnetic field carried by the rotor magnets is transferred to the stator. 

The force to turn those magents is proportionate to the demand for electric power. Pulling more power from the stator requires more mechanical force to turn the rotor.  That's why a 1963 Ford engine slows a bit when turning on alll electrical accessories. 

A weak battery will require a little more alternator output.  Added lights and accessories require more power, sometimes a lot more.  The alternator is about 60% efficient, so more heat is generated when the power requirement goes up.  A common failure is heat breaking down some part or material inside the alternator.

It sounds reasonable but I am missing the part that says how the force to turn the magnets (speed?) is managed.  I am trying to understand but it seems to me that identifying a weak battery is a bit much.  By your explanation the addition of electric accessories would be more harmful as they would require continual power output.

[Chrisj CMA]

...
As  Chris  said  it's hard  on the  alternator

Someone please explain this to me.  Doesn't the alternator turn the same whether it is just running the bike or also charging the battery?

I'm certainly no electrical expert. But I think the issue is not that it turns more, but that the extra draw on it wears the brushes and rotor more.

I'm no expert either. Would like to hear from one of our knowledgeable folks.
It's also my understanding that increased electrical current output requires more mechanical input from the engine. Say 750 watts takes 1hp but 1500 watts needs 2hp from the engine. (Made up numbers) With  increased alternator load it also generates more heat and wear. I think there are lots of variables, rpms being a big one.

My understanding is there is no transmission in the alternator.  That is everyone's knowledge.  It either turns or does not.  It turns by the power of the engine.  It does not take more or less.  For the bike to run on the output of the alternator it must be turning.  As the battery needs to be charged it takes from the alternator even as the electrical system of the engine takes from the alternator.

I do not understand the claim that the alternator works harder when the battery needs to be charged more.

There is a sort of "transmission"  in the alternator.  It's called voltage regulator.  If the battery is fully charged the voltage regular can dial down the output. In effect giving the alternator a rest.   If the alternator never rests it is in fact working harder than if it does get to rest.

[Pluggy]

Willow, think of it like this.  The voltage regulator reads the voltage in the electrical system.  It then makes a decision and either sends power from the alternator or stops power from the alternator.  This happens quickly and all the time.  This maintains an electrical system at about 14V.

[Pluggy]

Hello Willow,

The the bike at idle generates a lot less power than at highway speed.  Accessories (heated jacket, halogen lights, etc.) that seem OK on the highway are an excess load on the electrical system at idle.  

That excess load reduces the voltage in the electrical system, including the battery.

Back on the highway, the alternator works to raise the voltage of the battery and power accessories, too.  That's a lot of work for the alternator, causing heat and wear.  A strong battery is helpful, but if the alternator fails, consider those accessories.

[Chrisj CMA]

Hello Willow,

The the bike at idle generates a lot less power than at highway speed.  Accessories (heated jacket, halogen lights, etc.) that seem OK on the highway are an excess load on the electrical system at idle.  

That excess load reduces the voltage in the electrical system, including the battery.

Back on the highway, the alternator works to raise the voltage of the battery and power accessories, too.  That's a lot of work for the alternator, causing heat and wear.  A strong battery is helpful, but if the alternator fails, consider those accessories.

Yep a low idle is also hard on the alternator. At 900-1000 my alternator hits 14+ all day long. One more thing. A smart battery like the lithium one I put in a couple years ago supplements the voltage regulator in that it stops accepting power from the alternator when it doesn't need it.

And as far as accessories. I have a few and still see the volt meter drop to 13 for short periods but then go right back to 14 after awhile. So highway lights, additional rear running lights, onboard stereo and the volt meter aren't enough to cancel rest periods for the alternator.