wheel bearings-yea or nea

[fudgie]

Going to do the double wheel bearing mod, if thats what it is called.  ??? Got a 5204 coming thru Napa. $47 for that sucker! Question is, should I go ahead and replace the right side since i'm in there or leave it alone? Any other tips would be great to. Never done bearings on a bike but have on trucks a time or 3. 98 tourer, 52k, 1 year DS. 2 up 95%, 90% hiway rider. Thx x-ring for the write up. 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Are you going to just hack the spacer or have it machined ?  I'm planning on doing this also I know a couple that have with absolutely no problems. One guy had his spacer machined and the other just wacked it off with a hack saw.All three of my Valk's have had to have the ( L ) bearing replaced.

[2qmedic]

I replaced my rear left bearing several months ago with the double bearing. I took mine and had it machined to ensure that it was square and the proper thickness.
It is peace of mind.
Cheers

[fudgie]

Well I thought about having it machined since there are a dozen machine shops in town but I'm thinking i'll do it with a hacksaw and fine tune it with a sander or grinder. I'll get a couple incase I screw this one up!

[X Ring]

Fudgie, it cost me 10 bucks to have mine machined.  That's not a lot for a whole lot of peace of mind.  Also, since you've got it torn apart I would replace the right one.  You'll probably never have to mess with it again.

Marty

[MP]

I had three machined for $23. You want them square, so they push on the bearing evenly.  If you can hack it off, and sand square, great. It would be fine.  I could not get it square enough for me.

MP

[sandy]

Keep it stock. From having worked for Thompson Ind (bearing manufacturer), I learned about Grade I -V bearings. I feel Honda buys Grade I in bulk for wheels. I replaced my LR at 30+k miles. At 111K miles, I've had no more problems. BUT: I bought a replacement from a local bearing supply (grade V) and have had no more issues with a rear wheel. BTW: 47$ is way too high a price. Even a Grade V is about $10-12 bucks.

[fudgie]

Keep it stock. From having worked for Thompson Ind (bearing manufacturer), I learned about Grade I -V bearings. I feel Honda buys Grade I in bulk for wheels. I replaced my LR at 30+k miles. At 111K miles, I've had no more problems. BUT: I bought a replacement from a local bearing supply (grade V) and have had no more issues with a rear wheel. BTW: 47$ is way too high a price. Even a Grade V is about $10-12 bucks.

My partner for the day yesterday owns a repair shop and he made calls and the cheapest he could get was $42. There are some bearing places next town over but I cant get there during the week. Figured Napa was better then a mega parts store. 

[X Ring]

Decent price Fudgie.  For 2 SMK 3204 bearings I paid just under $100.  They were U.S. made.  I investigated brands the local auto parts box stores carry and they were made in China.  With the quality problems of Chinese made products, I wasn't comfortable with using them. 

Marty 

[flash2002]

What do you think of all-balls bearings, are they any good...

[Ricky-D]

I had three machined for $23. You want them square, so they push on the bearing evenly.  If you can hack it off, and sand square, great. It would be fine.  I could not get it square enough for me.

MP

Yep, that's the crux of it. 

Destined for failure if unnatural forces are applied. Just a matter of time!

***

[X Ring]

What do you think of all-balls bearings, are they any good...

When I called All Balls, they told me all their bearings for the Valkyrie are made in China.  A lot of guys here use them.  I won't for two reasons:  1.  Quality like I said in my previous post.  2.  By buying an American made bearing from a top tier manufacturer I am helping to keep fellow Americans employed.

Marty

[Friagabi]

Interesting thread, If I remember correctly one side of my back wheel has a double bearing and the otherside has a single row bearing. That single row bearing is the same as the front wheel bearing.

Now both bearings are a press fit in the wheel and both go into the wheel until the bearing bottoms out in the bore.

Now if you are planning on running an axle through the wheel and putting a nut on the end of that axle then winding that nut up tight, then you need a spacer between the bearings. That spacer needs to be as long as the distance between the bottom of the bearing bores in the wheel.

First question, why would you shorten it? Would that shortened spacer cause the inner races to apply side thrust to the bearings? If so then you will have very early failure of the bearings.

Most ball bearings have little capacity to handle side thrust. The ones that the Valkyrie uses are somewhat able to handle side thrust.

Double row bearings have a design problem and need to have tollarances very close or one or the other rows of balls will carry the load. Which means that you might as well have a single row bearing.

If you were to replace the single row bearing with a double row bearing then you would have to adjust the spacer on that side to compensate for the thicker bearing. If you miss by as much as .001 of an inch or the ends of the spacer are not square then you will side load one or the other bearings and that bearing will have a short life.

I gave this some thought and bought grade V bearings for the back and the front and have not had a problem since. Bought a extra single row bearing to carry with me. Packed it with a silica gell and wrapped the box with clear packing tape (several layers) and it rides in the saddle bag.

I should have made a spacer to make up for the difference between the single row bearing and the double row bearing and I would have a spare to use if the double row bearing fails. That side of the rear wheel would get a single row and a spacer to replace the double row bearing.

Hand on the throttle and eye on the line until the next bearing house.

[X Ring]

Interesting thread, If I remember correctly one side of my back wheel has a double bearing and the otherside has a single row bearing. That single row bearing is the same as the front wheel bearing.

Correct except for the '97s.

Now both bearings are a press fit in the wheel and both go into the wheel until the bearing bottoms out in the bore.

Again, correct.

Now if you are planning on running an axle through the wheel and putting a nut on the end of that axle then winding that nut up tight, then you need a spacer between the bearings. That spacer needs to be as long as the distance between the bottom of the bearing bores in the wheel.

That's why it is left alone.

First question, why would you shorten it? Would that shortened spacer cause the inner races to apply side thrust to the bearings? If so then you will have very early failure of the bearings.

We don't shorten it.  You've made an assumption.

Most ball bearings have little capacity to handle side thrust. The ones that the Valkyrie uses are somewhat able to handle side thrust.

Both the left and right rear wheel bearings on my '97 Tourer were made by NSK.  I replaced them with 3204s made by SFK, another top tier manufacturer.  Honda doesn't have bearings made specifically for them.  They use commercially available bearings that meet their specs.

Double row bearings have a design problem and need to have tollarances very close or one or the other rows of balls will carry the load. Which means that you might as well have a single row bearing.

Really?  That's very interesting considering double row bearings are specifically designed to carry higher rotational and angular loads and some motorcycle perfomance customizers are doing this modification to other makes, with engines that make ours look tiny and weak, for the added reliability the double row bearing gives.  In addition, the rear wheel bearing that fails the most in the Valkyries is the single row 6204 left rear wheel bearing.  As the left bearing is only supported by the axle and is subjected to braking forces as well, installing a larger, stronger bearing provides the left side of the wheel with a bearing better suited to handle those stresses.   

If you were to replace the single row bearing with a double row bearing then you would have to adjust the spacer on that side to compensate for the thicker bearing. If you miss by as much as .001 of an inch or the ends of the spacer are not square then you will side load one or the other bearings and that bearing will have a short life.

Exactly.  The 5204/3204 double row bearing is 6.6mm thicker than the 6204.  That's why you have .260" machined off the small end of the spacer.  Spending the few dollars to have the spacer machined will ensure the spacer is square.  In addition, the spacer, as designed, allows for the easy removal and installation plus not every frame has exactly the same dimensions.  The variance in the frames nullifies your contention the spacer has to be exact.

I gave this some thought and bought grade V bearings for the back and the front and have not had a problem since.

That's why I recommend buying bearings only from top tier manufacturers. 

I should have made a spacer to make up for the difference between the single row bearing and the double row bearing and I would have a spare to use if the double row bearing fails. That side of the rear wheel would get a single row and a spacer to replace the double row bearing.

Let me make sure I understand this.  You think replacing the right double row bearing with a single row bearing plus a spacer and sliding it into the final drive unit is a good idea?  That's scary.

With 5204/3204 bearings on both sides of the rear wheel, I carry one spare bearing for the rear wheel and one 6204 bearing for the front wheel while on a trip.  By using bearings made by top tier manufacturers, the chance of them failing is far less than bearings made by lesser manufacturers.

Marty

[MP]

+1 Marty.  Good answers.
Exactly what I did when I converted to two heavy bearings.

MP

[Friagabi]

If you will read the post you will find that the bearing stays in there as long as it takes to get to a bearing house to get a double row bearing. You stay on the side of the road while I go looking for a bearing house. That is OK with me. This thread did not say which spacer was going to be trimmed. Now it does. Good job. Much better than having someone trim the center spacer.

[X Ring]

Hand on the throttle and eye on the line until the next bearing house.

This is what you wrote.  Doesn't say anything about going to the bearing house buying a 5204 and performing a 2nd bearing replacement in their parking lot.  I don't know many people who carry the tools and equipment to perform a bearing change on the road but if you're going to change a bearing on the side of the road, why not install the correct one and do it once instead of twice? 

As far as bearing availability, I live 45 miles from the nearest bearing house and they didn't have one in stock.  They had to order them.  The local auto parts stores didn't have any either and there's no telling what brand they could get.  I'll just carry the correct spare and get towed to a local shop or VRCC member's house and change it there.

Marty

[fudgie]

I plan on carring my old spacer and a new machined spacer. Also a bearing of each or two. That way, heaven forbid, I have to take it to a dealer, and they happen to refuse to install the machined spacer, I will have the old one handy for them. I'm trying to avoid problems in the future since we take road trips every month. Kinda like a Pingel. Why d!ck with the stock petcock a few times instead of a fail safe one.  ???

[X Ring]

I've still got my original spacer.  I bought a used axle and spacer from Pinwall and had that spacer machined. 

Marty

[Friagabi]

Do you think that double row balls could replace the swingarm bearings and the steering head bearings? A whole lot less preload to fuss with? Did not know that double row balls would handle large side thrust! I learn something every day on this board.

[X Ring]

Wouldn't know.  I haven't investigated those.

[fudgie]

I dont think they would fit in the steering stem. To thick. It would be better to do the rear since its a 'common' failure. You could be left stranded with a rear blow out. It makes far more revolutions then the steering stem. Never heard of a stem bearing blow out.