needs choke to start

[Youngsmoke]

I live in Las vegas, and so for me a "cold" morning is in the 70's these days, high 60's at the lowest.  The thing is that I have noticed that no matter what the outside temp, if I don't put the choke on when I start up for the first time the bike dies after a second or 2.  I have the Idle set at between 900 and 1000 when it is warmed up.  is this wrong? 
  It's not like starting with the choke on is a big deal, but I shouldn't have to when it is warm outside.
thanks in advance
Hammer

[DFragn]

Idle rpm is good warm.

I would guess fouled slow jets. Try running some Techron, Seafoam or Berrymans B12. A half a bottle in a full tank with the Seafoam or Techron [I prefer Techron &run a few oz's. every tank]. Careful with the Berrymans B12 only 4-5 oz's per tank. A whole can could damage o-rings and such. Berrymans IS the better of the 3.

[R J]

Are you screwing with the throttle when this happens?

If so, leave your meat hooks off of it for at least 30 seconds, then you can blip the throttle.

With 35 jets, these bikes are cold blooded as hell.   That is the way I like mine however....

[Youngsmoke]

it dies if i blip the throttle or not.  though the only times I have messed with the throttle were when I noticed that the rpms were way low and I was trying to keep it from dying.  I will run some fuel system cleaner through, it just seemed wierd to me that it would die right off when ambient air is warm

[HotRod]

I live in Las vegas, and so for me a "cold" morning is in the 70's these days, high 60's at the lowest.  The thing is that I have noticed that no matter what the outside temp, if I don't put the choke on when I start up for the first time the bike dies after a second or 2.  I have the Idle set at between 900 and 1000 when it is warmed up.  is this wrong? 
  It's not like starting with the choke on is a big deal, but I shouldn't have to when it is warm outside.
thanks in advance
Hammer

I live in Henderson and have always choked mine on first start of the day,dont worry about it,runs great when shes warmed up right? Shoot me an e-mail man,lets ride,I'm off Tuesday,Wednesdays.

[PatrickDoss]

Not to start any arguments about the stuff, but something else to consider is the ethanol in the fuel.  I've had my bike since 2002, and it has needed more choke than it used to ever since they switched to that around here.  It doesn't burn as well when the cylinders are cold, and therefore the bike needs more choke to stay running, especially if you're running stock jets.

[HotRod]

Not to start any arguments about the stuff, but something else to consider is the ethanol in the fuel.  I've had my bike since 2002, and it has needed more choke than it used to ever since they switched to that around here.  It doesn't burn as well when the cylinders are cold, and therefore the bike needs more choke to stay running, especially if you're running stock jets.

I would not doubt that one bit,I run nothing but premium but who knows whats in there anymore.

[Ricky-D]

I live in Las vegas, and so for me a "cold" morning is in the 70's these days, high 60's at the lowest.  The thing is that I have noticed that no matter what the outside temp, if I don't put the choke on when I start up for the first time the bike dies after a second or 2.  I have the Idle set at between 900 and 1000 when it is warmed up.  is this wrong? 
  It's not like starting with the choke on is a big deal, but I shouldn't have to when it is warm outside.
thanks in advance
Hammer

What you report is completely normal.

Remember the temperature to you is good but compared to operating temperature for the motor, it is still cold.

***

[R J]

ROD:

This is pointed to you, Why the hell do you waste your $$$$ putting high octane in your bike?

It was not designed for that crap and will run a whole hell of a lot better on the 89 stuff..........

Mine has been modified internally and as long as it has carbs, it will get 87 or 89 and give me good mileage and performance.........

Fire away, I'll just ignore ya on your banter.......  Also, I got my fire suit on....  LOL.     

[HotRod]

ROD:

This is pointed to you, Why the hell do you waste your $$$$ putting high octane in your bike?

It was not designed for that crap and will run a whole hell of a lot better on the 89 stuff..........

Mine has been modified internally and as long as it has carbs, it will get 87 or 89 and give me good mileage and performance.........

Fire away, I'll just ignore ya on your banter.......  Also, I got my fire suit on....  LOL.     

No need to fire,you run what you want I run what i want,simple as that. I switch it up sometimes but prefer not to run lawnmower gas that often.

[Larry]

I live in Las vegas, and so for me a "cold" morning is in the 70's these days, high 60's at the lowest.  The thing is that I have noticed that no matter what the outside temp, if I don't put the choke on when I start up for the first time the bike dies after a second or 2.  I have the Idle set at between 900 and 1000 when it is warmed up.  is this wrong? 
  It's not like starting with the choke on is a big deal, but I shouldn't have to when it is warm outside.
thanks in advance
Hammer

+1 on what DFragn says about the pilots. Just finished doing my jets and it runs like new again. Was getting hard to start and once warmed up was good again. I look my pilots right out and replaced them with 38's as I was running lean in the pilot circuit anyway. Nice looking tan colour (Canadian spelling) now. I messed around with various cleaning solutions last summer and this spring but the problem persisted and since I needed to change mains anyway for a Dial-a-Jet system install, went with the 38's.

[Hoser]

RJ is right.  Hoser

[CajunRider]

I live in Louisiana... 80 deg on a cool day...

I still need to choke after she's sit in the garage over night... and usually after sitting in the sun light at work all day. 

Choke is normal for any engine that's less than about 150 deg when started... remember that "running" temp is somewhere in the 180 deg area.  (Yep... triple digits...)

[alph]

When I first got my cycle it started without using the choke.  Now, it won't start without it.  I would guess that's just the way it is.  I'm just glad it starts, my old Yamaha was way cold blooded compared to the Valk!!

[JetDriver]

No need to fire,you run what you want I run what i want,simple as that. I switch it up sometimes but prefer not to run lawnmower gas that often.

"Premium" gas is a misnomer.  The gas is not better or worse than regular.  Its octane level is different- that's all.  A higher octane level makes it harder to detonate the fuel mixture.  It's engineered to be harder to ignite to prevent pre-detonation in high compression engines.  A lower octane fuel will ignite more easily.  If the engine is designed for "regular," and "premium" is used, the fuel will not ignite at the point it was designed to for that engine.  Also, there is absolutely no power difference between the grades.  Nothing changes between grades except the detonation point.

However, after having said that, I absolutely agree with you that you can run whatever you want. 

[Valker]

No need to fire,you run what you want I run what i want,simple as that. I switch it up sometimes but prefer not to run lawnmower gas that often.

"Premium" gas is a misnomer.  The gas is not better or worse than regular.  Its octane level is different- that's all.  A higher octane level makes it harder to detonate the fuel mixture.  It's engineered to be harder to ignite to prevent pre-detonation in high compression engines.  A lower octane fuel will ignite more easily.  If the engine is designed for "regular," and "premium" is used, the fuel will not ignite at the point it was designed to for that engine.  Also, there is absolutely no power difference between the grades.  Nothing changes between grades except the detonation point.

However, after having said that, I absolutely agree with you that you can run whatever you want. 

Almost. The OCD in me makes me say that it's not detonation point, it is the speed at which the flame front advances or 'burn speed'. The higher octane burns slower (relatively since it is still almost instantaneous) than the lower octane. Lower octane actually has more energy (BTU) than premium, but not really enough to tell without precise instrumentation.

[JetDriver]

Almost. The OCD in me makes me say that it's not detonation point, it is the speed at which the flame front advances or 'burn speed'. The higher octane burns slower (relatively since it is still almost instantaneous) than the lower octane. Lower octane actually has more energy (BTU) than premium, but not really enough to tell without precise instrumentation.

I certainly recognize I'm no expert on the topic, and was hoping someone would further and more accurately define/explain the process, but...  One of the things I remember reading was that high octane fuel would help prevent "dieseling," the event where just the compression of the fuel in the compression cycle would heat the fuel to the point of detonation, before the spark plug fires.  If that's accurate (?), is the octane level just controlling the flame spread?

Still, the long and the short is, if the manufacturer says to run regular, regular will give the best performance.  Of course, that's just my humble opinion, HotRod- you should STILL run what you want.  

[Valker]

I think you are right on the compression firing thing. Basically resistance to multiple points of ignition causing shock waves we call pre-ignition or knocking.

[Larry]

Ya gotta love a good discussion about gas, such a relief! 

[OverdueBill]

If I put Rotella oil in my car tire, should I use premium gas?  Sorry, couldn't help it.

[alph]

Ya gotta love a good discussion about gas, such a relief! 

this would be a great time for someone to pull my finger!!!

[JetDriver]

Alright alright- I get it.     This all started because of people who continue to swear that their gas mileage goes up and they can "feel" the difference when they run premium, or just run it because they KNOW it's better.  Personally, I can feel my engine operating better when I change the oil every 500 miles, and I make my own oil filters, but that's just me. 

[HotRod]

Almost. The OCD in me makes me say that it's not detonation point, it is the speed at which the flame front advances or 'burn speed'. The higher octane burns slower (relatively since it is still almost instantaneous) than the lower octane. Lower octane actually has more energy (BTU) than premium, but not really enough to tell without precise instrumentation.

I certainly recognize I'm no expert on the topic, and was hoping someone would further and more accurately define/explain the process, but...  One of the things I remember reading was that high octane fuel would help prevent "dieseling," the event where just the compression of the fuel in the compression cycle would heat the fuel to the point of detonation, before the spark plug fires.  If that's accurate (?), is the octane level just controlling the flame spread?

Still, the long and the short is, if the manufacturer says to run regular, regular will give the best performance.  Of course, that's just my humble opinion, HotRod- you should STILL run what you want.  

Oh I will I just thought that premium burned cleaner,I switch back and forth ya know.

[HotRod]

Alright alright- I get it.     This all started because of people who continue to swear that their gas mileage goes up and they can "feel" the difference when they run premium, or just run it because they KNOW it's better.  Personally, I can feel my engine operating better when I change the oil every 500 miles, and I make my own oil filters, but that's just me. 

Nobody said anything about it making the bike run better,I just said that's what I run and RJ was bored and wanted to stir things,thanks ya old coot.

[JetDriver]

Nobody said anything about it making the bike run better,I just said that's what I run and RJ was bored and wanted to stir things,thanks ya old coot.

No, you didn't.  If you read these threads long enough, though, somebody always does.  Don't know why I chose this one to get up on my soapbox, but I did.  HotRod, if you and I ever find ourselves riding together (Inzane maybe?), and I see you putting premium in your tank, I promise I won't say anything.  Afterall, it's your money. 

[Cruzen]

I don't know how long you have had this bike or how long you have lived in Las Vegas but here are a few things to consider.

The Valk has 6 carbs which can go from lean to overly rich depending on the elevation. Depending on where you are in Las Vegas you may be between 1200 and 4000 ft elevation and your bike idle screws may not be properly set for you location.  The carbs could be even farther off if someone has replaced the exhaust or rejetted the carbs or if the bike was originally set up for a different elevation.

I live in Scottsdale which has an elevation of around 1200ft.  When I travel up to Prescott which is around 5000ft elevation the motor, which is stock, will not run properly when it is cold.  While 60 or 70 degrees may seem warm to you it is cold to a motor that is designed to run between 180-210 degrees.  I have to use the choke to start my IS and even then it gives me trouble until it warms up.  Once warm it runs about 1500 rpm lower at 5000ft than when I am at my 1200ft home elevation.  I run my bike on 89 fuel.  You may consider having the idle mixture screws adjusted for your area if that is where you're going to keep it.