Electrical Help Needed ...I am at my wits end!!!! LONG!!!!

[TearlessTom]

Okay to try to make a long story short I have been having a electrical gremlin on my bike since I purchased it about 3 1/2 years ago.  Usually it just a turn signal or running light out but not the bulbs.  Have had problems with the starter switch, brake / tail lights / etc.

So this winter I decided to add some  driving lights, while adding them some how I grounded out a circuit somewhere and fried the turn signal/ head light  wiring and to a lesser degree the starter switch wiring.

And one wire on the main wire harness  (the 9 pin connector. On the harness side the black/brown wire and the black/white wire loop back together?)

(The driving lights were not involved in that I have them on a separate circuit completely independent from the main harness with the exception of picking up the power at the accessory terminal.)

So being tired of chasing this gremlin I ordered a used wire harness from Pinwall, a new turn signal wire harness which includes the switches, and a starter switch and harness.  

So basically I replaced every thing but the rear sub-harness to the tail lights, and the sub-harness that goes to the fan/water temp gauge/ oil sensor.

 I also replaced a few vacuum lines while I had it down and also wired in a toggle switch so I can turn on the turn signal , flip the toggle switch and have 4-way flashers.

So I get it all back together and everything tucked in nice and neat, she is running like a champ. All the lights are working or so I thought and off I go to the gas station to top it off for a ride tomorrow.

I guy pulls up and tells me my rear running / tail light is out so I checked it at the station and I had a blown fuse. I also had no meter lights, neutral light, and the tach was not working.

I get home, replace the fuse and  and everything starts working as it should. I turned it off and then back on , this time the tail light is very dim, then I noticed smoke from the headlight bucket....I say WTF...  

It fried the turn signal wiring again and the wire on the main harness that loops around that I described above.

It appears the main wire that over heated is the brown with 3 black traces in the turn signal wire harness. so now I have  a new signal harness ordered again and went ahead and ordered a replacement main harness from Pinwall (JUST IN CASE THERE IS DAMAGE I CANT SEE)

What could be causing this?   I can't figure it out... It would seem like a ground but these are new harnesses, the same thing that happened to the old one should not be happening to them unless the problem is elsewhere.

Please any idea's would be helpful, I am at my wits end and can't afford to continue this.

[Thunderbolt]

Have you removed, cleaned and reattached the negative cable from the battery that attaches to the frame?  Sounds like since your wire melted, that it is being used as a ground return and is not large enough to do that job.  I know that there are several points like the coil on the left side of the frame and near the upper radiator hose near it's base where ground wires are connected.  Sounds like you probably have been to all those points if you replaced the harness though.

[John Schmidt]

It's hard to trouble-shoot from a desk, but in the past here's one thing I did to help track down a problem. First, I removed both cables on the battery so there is nothing "hot" or any available ground. I then went to the various lights that appeared to have trouble and removed the bulbs. Then, I removed as many of the harness grounds I could find...such as the one by the front coil. The idea is to isolate the harness as much as possible. With the multi-meter set on ohms, and the black lead clipped to the frame for a good ground, I start to check for shorts on all the wires that are burned.

It's not a perfect science or method, but should narrow your search field down quite a bit. That's assuming the problem is a short to ground.

[TearlessTom]

It's not a perfect science or method, but should narrow your search field down quite a bit. That's assuming the problem is a short to ground.

Is there something else it could be?  

Okay I forgot to mention that it is the 2nd fuse the tail/meter fuse that kept blowing out so I think the problem is in that circuit.

I understand what you both are saying but not understanding the logic totally.  

Why am I looking at the grounding points?

In my not so good mind if a wire is supposed to be grounded and is not the only thing that would happen is the circuit not work.  It is when a wire that IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE GROUNDED and is grounded is what causes this type of problem.

Oh snap, I think I understand what you are saying.  Disconnect everything that is suppose to be grounded then anything I find that is grounded may be the problem... is that it?

[TearlessTom]

Oh one more thing/clue.

Why would the main harness side of the red multi pin connector not be fried like the other side of the harness?  Its all one long wire when the two sides are connected together.  But then it jumps over to a completely different connection and fries just the one wire that joints the brown/white stripe and the black/ brown stripe?

[gregc]

If I read this right, I would go back and disconnect everything you did when you added the driving lights. I think this problem didn't start till after you installed the driving lights.  You might have crossed a wire or be expecting a small ground wire to handle the extra amperage of the driving lights.  Did you run the power supply for the driving lights thru a relay? If not the headlight switch/ starter switch will not be happy handling the extra load.  Just my suggestion of where I would look.

[Gryphon Rider]

I would suggest a good place to start would be the ignition switch.  I haven't checked your description against wiring diagrams, but it seems that your problem circuits are powered by the IG2 circuit of the switch.  On my car I once had smoke under my dash and traced it to a broken part within the ignition switch itself, which caused a ground wire to be overloaded.  My point is that a faulty switch can send current to circuits it where it doesn't belong.

IG1:  Fuse B (top fuse) - Turn, Stop, Horn
        Fuse D (5th from top) - Starter, Ignition

IG2:  Fuse A (6th from top) - Acc. Term.
        Fuse C (3rd from top) - Headlight
        Fuse F (2nd from top) - Taillight, Meters

[Thunderbolt]

or the wire is open that is supposed to be providing a ground, the circuit will "look" for a ground wherever it can "find" the best one.  If you lose the main or largest ground wire or connection is loose, the lights or whatever circuit will try to put all the current or amperage through the alternate path which will be the smaller wire.
Confused yet?

[John Schmidt]

Thunderbolt is on target with his thoughts, if a main ground isn't doing the job, then the system will indeed look for a ground somewhere. When that happens, you're going from a cable that's maybe 1/4" diameter at the battery to one that is maybe 18-20 gauge, i.e., 1/32" diameter or less. It just can't handle that load.

If it seems to be the lights in back, I'd unplug that part of the harness under the right side cover and start looking for a short to ground under the rear fender or where the wires take a beating going into the tail light ass'y. You should be able to remove the various bulbs in the tail light and turn signals, then hook one lead of the ohm meter to ground and start touching each wire where they connect on the right side. If you find continuity on anything but a green wire, that should be a problem area.

[stapo]

.I had a similar problem, cut out the earth wire (ground) , made up a new one and reattached it to the motor solved the problem. The local Auto elec. told me I probably had a "dry" connection.
regards.

[Blackduck]

Sometimes I think I should run  my handle as "overkill"
Had problems which turned out to be fried battery, blew a bunch of bulbs and had a run home in the dark (FUN).
Pulled all the ground wires looking for a fault, cleaned all then ran another new cable direct from the alternator casing to the battery.
Finally found the battery was total dead, would hold a charge for a short while then go to nothing.
Same with a lot of late model cars, ground cabling is the cause of a lot of problems.
Clean all connections and if in doubt add another heavy cable from the battery to the engine, either alternator case or starter case.
Cheers Steve

[TearlessTom]

Thanks for all the great advice so far. 

I got her back in mostly operational condition for now. Still haven't found the exact problem but getting closer.

I disconnected the new running lights and new front turn lights. I forgot to mention the turn lights earlier and I guess that may be important.

I have made some temporary repairs  and have everything working as it should except the  neutral light and the right front running light. and of coarse the driving lights.

The reason I think the running light may be of importance is that the original ones I always had problems with them going off and on. It never caused a problem and was never able to track it down but since the new ones the right one is also out I think it may be in that circuit or at least somewhere up front.

I have ordered a new turn switch again and as a precaution a new main harness. I will replace them next Monday if they come in on time.


Also the single BROWN wire from the turn switch blows the   2nd fuse when ever I plug it in. As long as it is unpluged everything else seems to function fine with the exception of the right running light and the neutral light.

I have copied and printed all of Chets diagrams and also a Clymer schematics which is in color and helps some.

Thanks again for all the advice, I will re-re-recheck all my grounds again as well as the other advice.

If anything else comes to mind please let me know.

Tom

[TearlessTom]

Okay got the new harnesses and everything back together and working as it should. 

I was able to finally track down the problem.

I had a very tiny nick on the right turn signal just inside of the signal housing.

Whew.....   that was an expensive and time consuming upgrade.

Thanks for all the help!

[X Ring]

Glad you found it.

Marty

[R J]

Glad to hear ya found it.

I just discovered your post and have read all the way to the bottom.

I was getting ready to tell you to look at the wires up under the rear fender.

I had my lard a$$ed sister-in-law on  the bike giving her a ride one day, when we encountered a deer.   Deer crossed the road, I took the bike to the ditch and went off of a driveway culvert hitting hard on the bottom end.   That short encounter of the suspension down too low, my CT rubbed the wiring loom and took some hide off of it.     That was a bear to find also.

[f6rider]

I have some basic rules when it comes to electric's on my bikes.  I never tap into the oe harness for power etc. Unless it is a plug and play deal. When I have wire splice I always heat shrink and solder. If  I put a end on the end of a wire a crimp it and seal it with a little heat shrink as well.
And i always give my self plenty of time to do the job.
I built my own trailer and spent hours routing and soldering the wires. I have a kit with a bunch of wire, heat shrink, connectors  a nice soldering gun, electric tape, wire ties, and liquid electric tape.

I recently added spots to my valk andit has some leds. I added a Buss fuse box under the right cover and run everything off that. Just a neater job, and i have nothing connected to the battery.

[Thunderbolt]

sounds like it was expensive and time consuming. 

[9Ball]

another thing to consider is...are you grounding the driving lights through the steering head bearings?  It's a good idea to have a ground wire from the driving lights that runs to the frame and not on the triple tree side.

glad you fixed your problem.

[mrtidy]

Glad you got your problem fixed.... I came in late on this for sure... but
next time when you have a short blowing fuses....
Don't keep putting in new fuses and trying to trouble shoot it or with an ohm meter...

Take a blown fuse and solder 2 wires on it and attach a 12V bulb...
plug it into the fuse block..

If the light is bright then there is a short....
start messing with your assoceiated wiring with the circuit..
if the light goes dim then you've probably found the source of the short...
It goes dim due to the voltage being divided between the bulb and load being in series now....

If the load is not present then the bulb in the fuse block will go out if the short is
removed..... 

makes troubleshooting a short much easier...