6 DEGREE WHEEL

[BIG--T]

I've read a little about the wheel. I know it advances the timing, more power on low end, but does it really increase the mpg too?? If so by how much- driving normally?

Also how hard is it to do?

Thanks!

[Walküre]

Did mine a few weeks ago - don't know about the mpg, but can definitely feel the low end power difference. I don't go much over the speed limit, so can't speak to that, either.

As for ease of doing it - Shop Talk has an article, and if you follow it to a T, you'll be okay. Key is keeping everything lined up. I made a "holder" for the drive pulley like the article, with a piece of strap steel from Menards, and two bolts. Quick and dirty. Here's the Shop Talk article:

Changing your Trigger Wheel

R

[TearlessTom]

Another option which is cheaper and easier in my opinion is the ECT mod. I did that along with adding an Interstate ICM and she runs like a scalded dog. Mileage is up about 1.5-2mpg

[BIG--T]

Did mine a few weeks ago - don't know about the mpg, but can definitely feel the low end power difference. I don't go much over the speed limit, so can't speak to that, either.

As for ease of doing it - Shop Talk has an article, and if you follow it to a T, you'll be okay. Key is keeping everything lined up. I made a "holder" for the drive pulley like the article, with a piece of strap steel from Menards, and two bolts. Quick and dirty. Here's the Shop Talk article:

Changing your Trigger Wheel

R

Thanks for the link Roger

[BIG--T]

Another option which is cheaper and easier in my opinion is the ECT mod. I did that along with adding an Interstate ICM and she runs like a scalded dog. Mileage is up about 1.5-2mpg

What is and does ETC stand for and why is it different than a standard? That is great about the performance, but getting better mpg on this and the wheel mod is amazing. I would have thought the opposite, more power= less mileage.

[GJS]

I did the 6 degree wheel about 4 years ago, and went back to stock when I rebuilt my machine after an accident.

I definitely got a rush from the additional boost around 3kRPM, there was no mistaking it.
However, I did feel like the rest of the power band did not deliver as smoothly. It seemed like in order to add it to one area it had to be taken from another.

As far as MPG goes, I could not see a difference. It could have been there but I live in and around a lot of hills and did not measure any change. I have an 99 Interstate and generally see 200-220 a tank without going to reserve.

I like the stock configuration, now that I'm back there. The bike engine/power responds smoothly through the entire range, without the Snap at 3k. I did like the "warp Drive" feeling, but I think I prefer the consistency now.  

Best regards,

Glenn

[Walküre]

What is and does ETC stand for and why is it different than a standard? That is great about the performance, but getting better mpg on this and the wheel mod is amazing. I would have thought the opposite, more power= less mileage.

ETC Mod is "Engine Coolant Temperature" mod. The Valk basically advances timing when the motor and coolant are cold, and when it warms up, doesn't. So, the ECT mod uses a variable resistance, to "fool" the engine into thinking the engine is colder than it is, allowing some variable adjustment to the timing. I didn't see it, or understand it, until after I had the 6° wheel. I will be doing it sometime in the future, when I go back to the stock trigger wheel. Maybe.

Here's another link, this time to the ECT Mod:

ECT Mod

[BIG--T]

What is and does ETC stand for and why is it different than a standard? That is great about the performance, but getting better mpg on this and the wheel mod is amazing. I would have thought the opposite, more power= less mileage.

ETC Mod is "Engine Coolant Temperature" mod. The Valk basically advances timing when the motor and coolant are cold, and when it warms up, doesn't. So, the ECT mod uses a variable resistance, to "fool" the engine into thinking the engine is colder than it is, allowing some variable adjustment to the timing. I didn't see it, or understand it, until after I had the 6° wheel. I will be doing it sometime in the future, when I go back to the stock trigger wheel. Maybe.

Here's another link, this time to the ECT Mod:

ECT Mod

Roger it almost sounds to good to be true! More power, more mpg, cost nearly nothing....Is there a downside? Lol! It did say it would give more mid range power, does that mean it cuts the low end power?    Thanks

[Walküre]

Roger it almost sounds to good to be true! More power, more mpg, cost nearly nothing....Is there a downside? Lol! It did say it would give more mid range power, does that mean it cuts the low end power?    Thanks

I don't think it does cut low end - if anything, makes it better. The only downside is that you make so much gas, you have to stop every 100 miles and dump some out...

As I said, I haven't done it yet. You need to remember that the bikes are designed for ALL weather conditions, ease of starting, moderate fuel economy, low pullution, etc, etc.

You MAY see a little premature engine wear, but negligible. Maybe 330,000 miles, instead of 350,000 miles. But probably not. I'm sure there are people MUCH more knowledgeable than I that can think of possible downsides. But, I haven't seen anyone say NOT to do it.

As I said, I will probably change over some time in the future, just not right away - almost all my riding is straight-line, 60 mph, back and forth to work. It rather depends on any changes in MPG that I get. That is "key" right now...

R

[TearlessTom]

No it has no effect on low end ,  It seems to really kick in around 3000 +/-  rpms and up.  

Have you ever noticed that your bike seems to  have more power when colder than after it warms completely up,  that is what  this does.   The bike is at proper temp but the ECT bypasses the temp sensor to a point and tells the bike that it is still cold which makes the ICM advance the timing more for you.

One of the great thing about this is the bike is never advanced more that Ma Honda intended as it is using the ICM to do the work.

By placing the rheostat on the system you can dial in as much or as little or no advance so depending on your driving, or fuel used you can fine tune it on the fly.

The Interstates ICM is tuned a little different and runs a little more advance than the standard or tourer. I can only assume Ma Honda made it this way because they assumed the interstate would be carrying heavier loads and more at highway speeds.

So combining the two makes a awesome combination.

I love passing cars or bikes or semi's on the interstate.  Running the same speed as them then drop down to 3rd , punch it, and watch the speck in your rear view mirror.  I especially enjoy doing this to the bigger bore 103,110CI bikes.

To give you an example if you start to pass a semi at 70 mph by the time you reach its front bumper you are running 90ish.
 
If you do not have the interstate model another cheap mod is to replace your carb vacuum springs with interstates, They are not as strong so deliver quicker throttle response.

If you have an interstate about all you can do is the ECT or the 4 degree wheel.

Like said above, it is cheap, easy and you don't even have to remove the gas tank. and best of all it is completly reversable. Just turn it off.

[John Schmidt]

I didn't do the ECT mod. Instead, went with I/S carb springs, I/S ICM, and a four degree T/W. It gives me all I want(or need) in performance. That, along with modified pipes and a K&N filter w/o prefilter and running right at 70 indicated on the open road I'll get in the mid to upper 30's in mpg...depending on topography. If it's fairly flat land, I set the cruise control on 70 and will get 40-41mpg. That's with a fairing and I/S radiator pods with Baker Wings hanging out in the wind, plus my size 12's on the highway pegs. A couple years ago I did install #38 slow jets, which didn't seem to make any difference in performance(wasn't looking for any). But I haven't had any problem with clogging and it apparently hasn't affected my mpg either.

[22Dasher]

Instead of going with a 6 deg wheel how about the 4 deg wheel on a tourer how will this effect the powerband ?

Reason I ask is I have a new 4 deg wheel I have planned to use on my tourer just don't know of any ill side effects.

[TearlessTom]

My understanding is the 4 degree is good for either tourer, standard or interstate,  but the 6 degree is only good for the tourer or standard.  It gives too much advance on the Interstate since the interstate has more advance already from thier ICM.  I think most perfer the 4 degree wheel as less need to run higher octaine fuels.

[John Schmidt]

Instead of going with a 6 deg wheel how about the 4 deg wheel on a tourer how will this effect the powerband ?
Reason I ask is I have a new 4 deg wheel I have planned to use on my tourer just don't know of any ill side effects.

If I recall correctly, the I/S ICM has two deg. built in. So, with a four deg. T/W you still have a six deg. advance until about 4500 rpm which is where I understand it drops back. Don't quote me on that, just going by memory. Maybe someone will chime in here and either confirm or correct. That happens to be what I run and it works for me.

[BIG--T]

Well the ICM seems like the easiest, cheapest way to go for now. I wonder if a OEM I/S ICM will work?  I love power as much as anybody but now trying to figure out how to get better mileage!

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to put a higher gear in?

[BIG--T]

No it has no effect on low end ,  It seems to really kick in around 3000 +/-  rpms and up.  

Have you ever noticed that your bike seems to  have more power when colder than after it warms completely up,  that is what  this does.   The bike is at proper temp but the ECT bypasses the temp sensor to a point and tells the bike that it is still cold which makes the ICM advance the timing more for you.

One of the great thing about this is the bike is never advanced more that Ma Honda intended as it is using the ICM to do the work.

By placing the rheostat on the system you can dial in as much or as little or no advance so depending on your driving, or fuel used you can fine tune it on the fly.

The Interstates ICM is tuned a little different and runs a little more advance than the standard or tourer. I can only assume Ma Honda made it this way because they assumed the interstate would be carrying heavier loads and more at highway speeds.

So combining the two makes a awesome combination.

I love passing cars or bikes or semi's on the interstate.  Running the same speed as them then drop down to 3rd , punch it, and watch the speck in your rear view mirror.  I especially enjoy doing this to the bigger bore 103,110CI bikes.

To give you an example if you start to pass a semi at 70 mph by the time you reach its front bumper you are running 90ish.
 
If you do not have the interstate model another cheap mod is to replace your carb vacuum springs with interstates, They are not as strong so deliver quicker throttle response.

If you have an interstate about all you can do is the ECT or the 4 degree wheel.

Like said above, it is cheap, easy and you don't even have to remove the gas tank. and best of all it is completly reversable. Just turn it off.

I don't even have to downshift to do that with my 110ci! 

[John Schmidt]

Well the ICM seems like the easiest, cheapest way to go for now. I wonder if a OEM I/S ICM will work? 

Absolutely, that's what I was talking about....they're "plug and play."  They are a little thicker than the stock ICM for the Std. and Tourer, but with a little work will fit into the rubber boot they are mounted in.

[BIG--T]

Well the ICM seems like the easiest, cheapest way to go for now. I wonder if a OEM I/S ICM will work? 

Absolutely, that's what I was talking about....they're "plug and play."  They are a little thicker than the stock ICM for the Std. and Tourer, but with a little work will fit into the rubber boot they are mounted in.

Thanks John, where can I find a I/S ICM...sounds a lot easier than soldering pieces!

[John U.]

The Interstate ICM is definitly the easiest but I wouldn't say cheapest. The ones I've seen sell on Ebay have gone for about 150.00 recently. You can do the ECT mod with the potentiometer on 10 Valks for that price.

I've done both the I/S ICM and the ECT mod. I strongly recommend installing the potentiometer (pot) to allow reducing the 10 degree advance to a more usable and less dangerous amount of advance. 10 degrees will hurt an engine in my opinion. I keep mine set at a bit less than half way (trying to achieve 4 degrees advance) and still use midgrade fuel to be safe.
Other than cost, the advantage with the ECT mod is that the added advance tapers of at around 3300 and is back to the standard advance by 3500 if memory serves. That's the reason the ECT mod doesn't hurt top end.

[BIG--T]

Thanks John U, did you notice a difference in gas mileage? Thanks for the info.

Tony

[TearlessTom]

No it has no effect on low end ,  It seems to really kick in around 3000 +/-  rpms and up.  

Have you ever noticed that your bike seems to  have more power when colder than after it warms completely up,  that is what  this does.   The bike is at proper temp but the ECT bypasses the temp sensor to a point and tells the bike that it is still cold which makes the ICM advance the timing more for you.

One of the great thing about this is the bike is never advanced more that Ma Honda intended as it is using the ICM to do the work.


By placing the rheostat on the system you can dial in as much or as little or no advance so depending on your driving, or fuel used you can fine tune it on the fly.

The Interstates ICM is tuned a little different and runs a little more advance than the standard or tourer. I can only assume Ma Honda made it this way because they assumed the interstate would be carrying heavier loads and more at highway speeds.

So combining the two makes a awesome combination.

I love passing cars or bikes or semi's on the interstate.  Running the same speed as them then drop down to 3rd , punch it, and watch the speck in your rear view mirror.  I especially enjoy doing this to the bigger bore 103,110CI bikes.

To give you an example if you start to pass a semi at 70 mph by the time you reach its front bumper you are running 90ish.
 
If you do not have the interstate model another cheap mod is to replace your carb vacuum springs with interstates, They are not as strong so deliver quicker throttle response.

If you have an interstate about all you can do is the ECT or the 4 degree wheel.

Like said above, it is cheap, easy and you don't even have to remove the gas tank. and best of all it is completly reversable. Just turn it off.

I don't even have to downshift to do that with my 110ci! 

    But at what cost?  I've got less than $150. in mine... Seriously I just down shift just to feel the amazing torque at that speed.  A full 5th gear roll on does almost as well.  I think you could take me if I didn't down shift but my 88 and 96CI riding buddies cant touch it.

[BIG--T]

No it has no effect on low end ,  It seems to really kick in around 3000 +/-  rpms and up.  

Have you ever noticed that your bike seems to  have more power when colder than after it warms completely up,  that is what  this does.   The bike is at proper temp but the ECT bypasses the temp sensor to a point and tells the bike that it is still cold which makes the ICM advance the timing more for you.

One of the great thing about this is the bike is never advanced more that Ma Honda intended as it is using the ICM to do the work.


By placing the rheostat on the system you can dial in as much or as little or no advance so depending on your driving, or fuel used you can fine tune it on the fly.

The Interstates ICM is tuned a little different and runs a little more advance than the standard or tourer. I can only assume Ma Honda made it this way because they assumed the interstate would be carrying heavier loads and more at highway speeds.

So combining the two makes a awesome combination.

I love passing cars or bikes or semi's on the interstate.  Running the same speed as them then drop down to 3rd , punch it, and watch the speck in your rear view mirror.  I especially enjoy doing this to the bigger bore 103,110CI bikes.

To give you an example if you start to pass a semi at 70 mph by the time you reach its front bumper you are running 90ish.
 
If you do not have the interstate model another cheap mod is to replace your carb vacuum springs with interstates, They are not as strong so deliver quicker throttle response.

If you have an interstate about all you can do is the ECT or the 4 degree wheel.

Like said above, it is cheap, easy and you don't even have to remove the gas tank. and best of all it is completly reversable. Just turn it off.

I don't even have to downshift to do that with my 110ci! 

    But at what cost?  I've got less than $150. in mine... Seriously I just down shift just to feel the amazing torque at that speed.  A full 5th gear roll on does almost as well.  I think you could take me if I didn't down shift but my 88 and 96CI riding buddies cant touch it.

$150 in what? I'm going to radio shack! I doubt if I could catch you if I was on a harley!

[TearlessTom]

Bought Interstate ICM from  Pinwall on Ebay. (none listed at present) About $120.
Interstate Carb Springs, OEM $20
Parts for ECT mod from Radio shack. about $10
Polished intakes Free, Cant say it helped but it didnt hurt.

Smiles....Priceless

[BIG--T]

Bought Interstate ICM from  Pinwall on Ebay. (none listed at present) About $120.
Interstate Carb Springs, OEM $20
Parts for ECT mod from Radio shack. about $10
Polished intakes Free, Cant say it helped but it didnt hurt.

Smiles....Priceless

I must missing something because the write up about the mod didn't say anything about the I/S ICM. ?? 

[MP]

Bought Interstate ICM from  Pinwall on Ebay. (none listed at present) About $120.
Interstate Carb Springs, OEM $20
Parts for ECT mod from Radio shack. about $10
Polished intakes Free, Cant say it helped but it didnt hurt.

Smiles....Priceless

I must missing something because the write up about the mod didn't say anything about the I/S ICM. ?? 

That is separate.  You can do either one, or both.  I just run a IS ECM on my 97 std.

MP

[BIG--T]

Bought Interstate ICM from  Pinwall on Ebay. (none listed at present) About $120.
Interstate Carb Springs, OEM $20
Parts for ECT mod from Radio shack. about $10
Polished intakes Free, Cant say it helped but it didnt hurt.

Smiles....Priceless

I must missing something because the write up about the mod didn't say anything about the I/S ICM. ?? 

That is separate.  You can do either one, or both.  I just run a IS ECM on my 97 std.

MP

Yes I was going with the I/S  ICM until I found it was over $120! I think I'll go to Radio Shack and spend  $10

[TearlessTom]

That is your best and cheapest and easiest 1st step.