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Bolts From Brake Disk to Wheel

Started by 97BLKVALK, Mon 09, May 2011, 18:12:54

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97BLKVALK

Good Evening Fat Lady Riders!

I see in the Service Manual that Honda requires bolt replacement, Just wanted opinions of who is and who's not and why.

Michael
2 in line :D
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

1997 GL1500C - Black
1997 GL1500C - Purple
1997 GL1500C - Bumble Bee
1998 GL1500C - Blue and Cream

bentwrench

I've reused them.with blue pasty loctite.
bw

John U.

I have reused them also without problems. It may be Honda's legal department covering their azz.

Hoser

Same here, I only changed them when the allen heads start to round out.  Hoser
I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle

[img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/

sandy

The factory bolts come preloaded with locktite. Honda is covering themselves for liability reasons. If you add Loctite blue, you're good to go.

97BLKVALK

That's what I was thinking but was covering my A_ _ too!


Michael

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

1997 GL1500C - Black
1997 GL1500C - Purple
1997 GL1500C - Bumble Bee
1998 GL1500C - Blue and Cream

98valk

just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798

R J

Quote from: CA ExhaustCoatings on Mon 09, May 2011, 19:15:45
just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.
44 Harley ServiCar




 


9Ball

I believe these are "stretch bolts" so the difference is not just the locktite.

Might want to confirm this as you are taking a risk re-using a stretch bolt, especially for something as important as a brake rotor.

Just an FYI....
VRCC #6897, Joined May, 2000

1999 Standard
2007 Rocket 3
2005 VTX 1300S

Bobbo

Quote from: jrhorton on Tue 10, May 2011, 04:32:05
I believe these are "stretch bolts" so the difference is not just the locktite.

Might want to confirm this as you are taking a risk re-using a stretch bolt, especially for something as important as a brake rotor.

Just an FYI....

There's really no such thing as a "stretch bolt".  All bolts stretch when tightened down, that's how they work.  Every time you remove and replace a bolt, especially at higher torques, you stretch it more.  After a while, it will be out of spec, and could fail.  Critical bolts in high torque applications are always recommended to be replaced with new bolts to achieve the proper torque and holding force.  Honda obviously considers the brake rotor bolts as critical, and requires replacement.

Can you re-use the bolts?  Sure, and most of the time you won't have a problem.  I would replace them if the were re-torqued more than twice.

hubcapsc


It is easy to find people talking about stretch bolts, the stretch bolt
kits you can buy seem to usually be associated with transmissions...

I don't think the manual sez our rotor bolts are stretch bolts, but if
they were stretch bolts, it would explain why Honda wants us to replace
them.

I wish they told us why they say some of these things...

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/stretchbolts.html

http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/17193.html

-Mike

B

Quote from: R J on Tue 10, May 2011, 00:24:17
Quote from: CA ExhaustCoatings on Mon 09, May 2011, 19:15:45
just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.

Tell me about compensating ... I musta missed the fine print.
What's the rule of thumb?
"if I ride the morning winds to the farthest oceans, even there your hand will guide me." TLB-Ps.139:9-10

Bobbo

Quote from: hubcapsc on Tue 10, May 2011, 09:37:29

It is easy to find people talking about stretch bolts, the stretch bolt
kits you can buy seem to usually be associated with transmissions...

I don't think the manual sez our rotor bolts are stretch bolts, but if
they were stretch bolts, it would explain why Honda wants us to replace
them.

I wish they told us why they say some of these things...

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/stretchbolts.html

http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/17193.html

-Mike

Well, it HAS been 32 years since I was a mechanic.  No one ever called them "stretch bolts" back then, as all bolts stretch when tightened.

9Ball

the proper term is torque to yield, or TTY.

Stretch is a slang.....but common usage for this type of bolt.
VRCC #6897, Joined May, 2000

1999 Standard
2007 Rocket 3
2005 VTX 1300S

Ricky-D

Most all bolts are elastic!

So most all bolts stretch. Some return to original and some do not.  It mainly depends upon the previous loading and material.

I don't think replacing the bolts is so necessary since they are mainly used in shear and the torque applied has only a little effect upon the shear rating of the bolt, new or used.  Mainly shear would be discussed when selecting materials and hardness of the bolt.

***
2000_Valkyrie_Interstate

98valk


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2343/threaded_fasteners_torquetoyield_and_torquetoangle.aspx

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94440&page=3


from various searches, if the bolt has an initial torque requirement and then an additional turn 120 degrees then its a TTY bolt. So according to this the disk bolts are not.
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798

Bobbo

Quote from: B on Tue 10, May 2011, 09:45:47
Quote from: R J on Tue 10, May 2011, 00:24:17
Quote from: CA ExhaustCoatings on Mon 09, May 2011, 19:15:45
just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.

Tell me about compensating ... I musta missed the fine print.
What's the rule of thumb?

Most torque specs are "dry torque", meaning the threads are clean and dry.  If you put a lubricant on the threads, you typically reduce the torque applied by as much as 25% (wet torque).  Since Loctite isn't much of a lubricant, I would reduce the torque from between 0% to 10%, depending on how much the Loctite lubed the threads.

9Ball

Quote from: CA ExhaustCoatings on Tue 10, May 2011, 12:31:55

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2343/threaded_fasteners_torquetoyield_and_torquetoangle.aspx

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94440&page=3


from various searches, if the bolt has an initial torque requirement and then an additional turn 120 degrees then its a TTY bolt. So according to this the disk bolts are not.

that's good info....hope you're right.
VRCC #6897, Joined May, 2000

1999 Standard
2007 Rocket 3
2005 VTX 1300S

B

"if I ride the morning winds to the farthest oceans, even there your hand will guide me." TLB-Ps.139:9-10

Ricky-D

Anything you use on a bolt will act as a lubricant.

Because it may not feel like oil, the bolt cant tell the difference. Oil or water it doesn't matter.

The small drive size is indicative of the force, designers envisioned.

The threads in the wheel are aluminum.

Extra care is needed to avoid stripping the threads out of the wheel.

Torque wrenches are notorious for being out of scale.

Helicoils might be in your future.

***
2000_Valkyrie_Interstate

98valk

Quote from: Ricky-D on Wed 11, May 2011, 09:24:39

Torque wrenches are notorious for being out of scale.


That's why I only use a beam type torque wrench. Always calibrated by checking/centering the pointer before use.  building an engine or machinery then a clicker or digital type.
clicker types I agree, they need to be calibrated, most don't know that, and there goes the problems u mentioned.
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798