Would you approve of police drinking and driving on duty?

[Titan]

In a couple of previous threads concerning drinking and driving a lot of people stated that they do drink and drive. A lot of people's opinions are that it's perfectly ok to drink and drive as long as they stay under the illegal limit. Some people even go so far as to think drinking a couple of beers doesn't adversely affect their driving.

This brings up a question for the drinkers. Would you approve of law enforcement officers and other emergency response personnel routinely drinking before and on duty as long as they stayed under the illegal limit? Imagine perhaps a highway trooper chasing cars, stopping violators and writing tickets with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.07% in a state where the limit is 0.08%. 

[tank_post142]

self-righteous tripe

[x]

What's the point?  Alcohol laws are the way they are because the vast majority of people do not want to see zero tolerance laws.  Is there risk?  Sure.  Some people can't even handle the legal limit and drive safely, where others have drunken far more than the legal limit and do not have accidents.

Are you suggesting that zero tolerance is the only way to go for alcohol laws? How about for speeding?  Jaywalking?

[The Anvil]

Fact: Fatigued driving is a much bigger problem than drunk driving.

Fact: Drunk driving and "drinking and driving" are not always the same thing.

Fact: Not everyone is affected the same way by a given amount of alcohol and there are several factors that determine how much alcohol an individual can consume before it significantly affects their driving ability.

Fact: Zero tolerance laws are (with very rare exception) for lazy-minded simpletons and fascist dictatorships.

[Titan]

It's interesting how you completely turned my question into something that I didn't say. I said nothing about zero tolerance or any other tolerance level. I didn't suggest zero tolerance laws or rules. I asked a pretty simple question. I guess I should have made it clear that it was rhetorical. It has nothing to do with being self righteous because it's not about me. I made no suggestions of any kind and didn't state my beliefs on the subject. It's just my way of arguing against those who say that drinking alcohol and driving is safe.

[Farther]

It's interesting how you completely turned my question into something that I didn't say.

Maybe you could be more articulate and if you don't want to hear an answer, don't ask the question.

[Titan]

By the way... just for the record... I'm a drinker. Not on any kind of a regular basis but I may attend some kind of a get-together once or twice a year and if there's drinking, I'll be drinking. I don't like beer so having a cold one doesn't work for me. I like bourbon mixed with whatever and have been drunk enough to be out of commission a couple of times in my life. But if I'm gonna be somewhere that I'll have even one drink I'll also have somebody that will be driving besides me. I wouldn't want to have any amount of alcohol in me and get involved in a wreck and getting nailed for DUI. It's not worth it... to me. I have nothing whatsoever against drinking. I only have a problem with drunk driving and I only have that problem because it causes an incredible amount of pain, suffering, death and destruction. I hate to see families hurt because the bread-winner lost his license and can't have a job.

So, no. You're sadly mistaken to think I'm being self righteous. My rhetorical question may be 100 percent BS but it was just my way to argue that most people really and truly don't believe it's safe to drink and drive. I figure most people know they're taking a chance on losing their jobs or license but they figure also that the odds are in their favor and all will be ok.

[Skinhead]

I know a few people that can't drive @0.00 BAC.  Ihere is a big difference between driving 5 miles home from the bar/restaurant after 2 beers and reporting for a 8 hr shift of operating a MV with a BAC of 0.07.  But to answer your original question, NO.

[WamegoRob]

This brings up a question for the drinkers.

I might have a bottle of wine and a few beers in the course of a year, so I qualify.

Would you approve of law enforcement officers and other emergency response personnel routinely drinking before and on duty as long as they stayed under the illegal limit?

Nope... not approved.

[Full_Throttle]

Fact: Fatigued driving is a much bigger problem than drunk driving.

Fact: Drunk driving and "drinking and driving" are not always the same thing.

Fact: Not everyone is affected the same way by a given amount of alcohol and there are several factors that determine how much alcohol an individual can consume before it significantly affects their driving ability.

Fact: Zero tolerance laws are (with very rare exception) for lazy-minded simpletons and fascist dictatorships.

FACT:  You are full of SH@#

According to the NHTSA, there are 55,000 "fatigue" accidents each year, with and average of 1,550 people being killed by "fatigue" related accidents.  Sited here http://car-accidents.whocanisue.com/fatigue-driver-statistics/

In contrast to "Drunk Driving" ; In 2009, 10,839 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (32%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

Now, some will say that the fatalities from drunk driving are inflated, as talked about here; http://www.totaldui.com/news/articles/statistics/misleading-madd-drunk-driving-statistics.aspx

BUT even those numbers are higher that the average of 1,550 people killed by fatigue driving.

SOOOOO.....
for you to say that fatigue driving is a "MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM" as a FACT is, in FACT horse crap!
According to the statistics I can find, I don't even see the two as being close!

I do not have a "dog in this hunt"....but to throw around the word "fact" when it is OBVIOUSLY more of an opinion just needs to be called out.

FACT:  Driving is a privilege

OPINION:  more than 1 DUI should result in a loss of said privilege for a LONG TIME.

Nuff said

peace out girl scout

[Thespian]

 Statistics don't tell the whole story. I have had more than a few close calls on my way to work in the AM. Nobody recorded them for statistical analyses. Just sayin!

[Full_Throttle]

Statistics don't tell the whole story. I have had more than a few close calls on my way to work in the AM. Nobody recorded them for statistical analyses. Just sayin!

of course not...but when stats ARE available, you had better look at them before throwing around words link "fact".  a "fact" can't be disputed.  It is evident by 10 minutes of research that you cannot state as a "fact" that fatigue driving is a much bigger problem that drunk driving.  (Unless of course you define drunk driving as something unrealistic like a BAC of .2 and stuff like that)

A FACT is something like "I am a human" and "the US has 50 states"

Maybe I came across a bit strong in saying Anvil is full of sh#$...sometimes I like what he says and sometimes I don't.  Most of the time I read and don't post.  BUT this one just struck me for some reason.

peace out....

[Farther]

A FACT is something like "I am a human"

That is what I would call an unsupported fact.

[fudgie]

I believe there are more fatiqued drivers the ETOH impaired ones, so your risk is hight with sleepy drivers.

[BigAl]

Yes you implied that a zero tolarance is needed for LEOs and Emergency Responders.,

No I don't care if they have had a drink.

.02 at my work place or actually under is the law.

If you use hand sanitizer you are approaching that limit.

One drink is not enough once adrenaline kicks in to make a hill of beans difference.

A beer with lunch does not a drunk make.

[The Anvil]

Statistics don't tell the whole story. I have had more than a few close calls on my way to work in the AM. Nobody recorded them for statistical analyses. Just sayin!

Precisely. You can prove drunk driving fatalities quite easily. Fatigued driving? Notsomuch. Besides which; driving fatigued may or may not result in more fatalities but I guarantee that more people do it. I never drive drunk but I find myself driving fatigued on a semi regular basis due to circumstances beyond my control. Everyone I know is subject to fatigue and pretty much everyone I know drives. Not everyone I know drinks though. Fatigued driving is a bigger problem than drinking and driving. FACT, not opinion.

For that matter, add distracted driving to the list of problems greater than drunk driving.

I'm only full of crap if you use "crap" as a euphemism for "reality".

[Willow]

Statistics don't tell the whole story. I have had more than a few close calls on my way to work in the AM. Nobody recorded them for statistical analyses. Just sayin!

Precisely. You can prove drunk driving fatalities quite easily. Fatigued driving? Notsomuch. Besides which; driving fatigued may or may not result in more fatalities but I guarantee that more people do it. I never drive drunk but I find myself driving fatigued on a semi regular basis due to circumstances beyond my control. Everyone I know is subject to fatigue and pretty much everyone I know drives. Not everyone I know drinks though. Fatigued driving is a bigger problem than drinking and driving. FACT, not opinion.

For that matter, add distracted driving to the list of problems greater than drunk driving.

I'm only full of crap if you use "crap" as a euphemism for "reality".

I hate to contribute to a hijacking argument, but there is no fact in "Fatigued driving is a bigger problem than drinking and driving."

One could reasonably argue that fatigued drivers are more numerous than drunk drivers.  One could honestly state that fatigued and distracted driving are certainly real problems.  Since the statistics clearly bear out that as of the time of the statistics drunk drivers caused more death and damage than fatigued drivers one cannot reasonably support the emotionally base opinion that fatigued driving is a BIGGER problem than drunk driving.

That is my well considered opinion on the facts.

We do need to accept that fatigued driving is a problem and that distracted driving is a problem.  Those very real problems do nothing to diminish the avoidable damage done by drinking drivers.

I don't drink.  I do get tired.  Those elements could color my opinion.    

[The Anvil]

Statistics don't tell the whole story. I have had more than a few close calls on my way to work in the AM. Nobody recorded them for statistical analyses. Just sayin!

Precisely. You can prove drunk driving fatalities quite easily. Fatigued driving? Notsomuch. Besides which; driving fatigued may or may not result in more fatalities but I guarantee that more people do it. I never drive drunk but I find myself driving fatigued on a semi regular basis due to circumstances beyond my control. Everyone I know is subject to fatigue and pretty much everyone I know drives. Not everyone I know drinks though. Fatigued driving is a bigger problem than drinking and driving. FACT, not opinion.

For that matter, add distracted driving to the list of problems greater than drunk driving.

I'm only full of crap if you use "crap" as a euphemism for "reality".

I hate to contribute to a hijacking argument, but there is no fact in "Fatigued driving is a bigger problem than drinking and driving."

One could reasonably argue that fatigued drivers are more numerous than drunk drivers.  One could honestly state that fatigued and distracted driving are certainly real problems.  Since the statistics clearly bear out that as of the time of the statistics drunk drivers caused more death and damage than fatigued drivers one cannot reasonably support the emotionally base opinion that fatigued driving is a BIGGER problem than drunk driving.

That is my well considered opinion on the facts.

We do need to accept that fatigued driving is a problem and that distracted driving is a problem.  Those very real problems do nothing to diminish the avoidable damage done by drinking drivers.

I don't drink.  I do get tired.  Those elements could color my opinion.    

You're right, statistics do not back up my assertion that it's "fact". But as I already pointed out, statistics are unreliable in that matter and my own experience of working varying shifts over the years tell me that driving while tired is more common and potentially just as dangerous. In my experience drivers are at their most dangerous between the hours of 5:00 am and 7:00 am when they're still asleep. Then mix in the occasional 3rd shifter who doesn't sleep well during the day...

No one is under any obligation to accept it just because I say so, but I know what I know.

[fon1961]

anvil, opinions are no more relieable than statistics....just my opinion lol

[The Anvil]

anvil, opinions are no more relieable than statistics....just my opinion lol

Hush yo mouf! 

[Full_Throttle]

Willow stated MUCH BETTER what I was trying to point out.

[amazngrace]

I work at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, and conservatively, for
every 10 drivers that are stopped for weaving and crossing the line there,
9 will be sleepy drivers.
Of course, our traffic is mostly people going the distance, not local travel.

Some of our more spectacular accidents were caused by drivers who
fell asleep.

..ED

[BigAl]

No statistics are kept on fatigued driving except for truckers.

Truckers used to drive more hours illegally and this was sucha problem major revamps have taken place to assure

we don't have sleepy guys in 18 wheelers out running over whole families at once.

So drinking and driving is not drunk driving.

Drinking is just that drinking.

Impaired drivers are the problem.

Impairment could be cold medicine, marijuana, heroine, cocaine, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, meth, crack, texting, or any other activity like eating or drinking coffee and spilling it,

sneezing behind the wheel.


Impaired is impaired, and it means a hell of a lot more than just drinking, just ask a truck driver.


Life is more complicated than just a bunch of drunks on the road.


They just get more attention and disgust.

[HayHauler]

anvil, opinions are no more relieable than statistics....just my opinion lol

Hush yo mouf! 

Hahahahaha, Anvil said "mouf". 

Hay
Jimmyt

[art]

Sneezing while riding in the mountains,now that's a bitch,talk about all over the road.Try riding with hayfever,WOW what a blast!