Re: the Very Sad thread and the state of healthcare insurance in this country

[BF]

"Fundraising effort to help pay for cancer patient's chemo and to provide for his family."


http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120801/LIVING/308019988/1008/CELEB

I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I started this one. 

From the article....

"......and the insurance they have does not cover the growing demands of Craig's condition. That's why their friend, Greg Munster, 27, of Harlan, decided to start a fundraiser called Help4Craig."

"Originally, I wanted to raise money, so (Craig) would know his family is taken care of," Munster said. "Now it's more about keeping them afloat."

"Craig hopes to switch from the pump system to a pill form of treatment as soon as possible. But the pill costs $7,000 a month, and insurance only covers $5,000."

"There's no way a young family can come up with an extra $2,000 a month on top of all the medical expenses we already have," Amanda said. "We're tying to get grants and other funding, but it's slow going."




The above is straight from that article.  The really sad part is, they arn't alone....there are thousands and thousands of cases just like this young couple across this country that are forced into bankruptcy SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY GET SICK.   

People shouldn't be forced to have to practically beg for money to survive because they don't have the right insurance or enough insurance in this country. 

The fact that this happens in the greatest, richest country on the planet is just plain wrong.  The fact that some people would say that this young couple "should have made better choices" seriously pisses me off.   

People shouldn't go broke and depend on donations and prayers to survive......and forced into bankruptcy simply because they get sick. 

I don't know what the answer is, but this shouldn't be.....not in this country.

[Fritz The Cat]

OMG, don't even get me started. I agree, this country is sick with unbridled, inhumane greed.

[old2soon]

Not a hijack. But one of these days a lot sooner than i think-i will by need have to go to a hospital for-something-and be told-i'm too old-too sick-or i don't fit the demographic. I now believe that gubmint would feel a lot better bout it self and me in general-if i would just-EXPIRE-DIE-CASH IN MY CHIPS OR CEASE TO EXIST.  Feel free to try and dispute this.  I'd like it to be disputed-BUT-i has my doubts.  RIDE SAFE.

[BF]

Not a hijack. But one of these days a lot sooner than i think-i will by need have to go to a hospital for-something-and be told-i'm too old-too sick-or i don't fit the demographic. I now believe that gubmint would feel a lot better bout it self and me in general-if i would just-EXPIRE-DIE-CASH IN MY CHIPS OR CEASE TO EXIST.  Feel free to try and dispute this.  I'd like it to be disputed-BUT-i has my doubts.  RIDE SAFE.

No dispute.  Just as soon as they think that they can't squeeze anymore money out of you and your insurance company and you've lost your value, you're toast. 

[cookiedough]

There is no reason the mfgs. of these pills, etc. have to charge say 20 bucks a pill.  Greed is the name of the game and the govt. needs to step in and put a stop to overcharging for these meds.

Also, the clinics/hospital billing procedures seriously need to review and adjust MUCH lower the charges they bill to patients/insurance companies.  Just because they can overcharge, doesn't make it right.  Our daughter needed simple bloodwork done recently and with our new crappy insurance having to pay about 44% of the entire bill until the individual $500 deductible is met per family,  the charge dean clinic did was 300 bucks for a blood draw and run test results for 2-3 simple items.  Give me a break, 300 bucks for 15 minutes work.  Wish I could make that kind of money. Still haven't paid that 140 bucks or so and might not I am so pissed off about it.  They have sent me to a collection agency already once since I refused to pay for something else they did not bill properly and we disagreed over the situation entirely, this might be another issue? 

[Fritz The Cat]

The Gov will never step in because they're getting a healthy cut of the profits.

[Jabba]

Guys... it's expensive because of all the people that get it for FREE.  And people that get insurance to pay for every part of it, see it as FREE.  It's NOT free.  It costs money.

Now I agree that we (Americans) shouldn't have to die or be forced into bankruptcy over it.  But, the truth is, advanced medical care IS expensive.  R&D on drugs IS expensive. 

More importantly, treating illegal immigrants, who come here for the health care, and then do not pay is MORE expensive.  Treating Americans who choose to not have insurance, then ditch out on paying is expensive too.  But one step at a time.  Let's try to stop the bleeding to foreigners, both thru medical treatment AND thru simply sending them $$.

Jabba

[valkmc]

I hate insurance companies...but when 25% of people who end up in the hospital do not pay the bill what do we think is going to happen to cost. Same thing with credit cards. Force everyone to have insurance and those of us who are responsible will not be carrying the load. We may have the best healthcare in the world but our delivery system is not working. Healthcare like everything else is a personal responsibility but someone please come up with a delivery system that will mean I only have to pay for me and my own. I also think this has gone way beyond illegals, look at how many in the US are not covered by insurance.

[Fritz The Cat]

Guys... it's expensive because of all the people that get it for FREE.  And people that get insurance to pay for every part of it, see it as FREE.  It's NOT free.  It costs money.

Now I agree that we (Americans) shouldn't have to die or be forced into bankruptcy over it.  But, the truth is, advanced medical care IS expensive.  R&D on drugs IS expensive. 

More importantly, treating illegal immigrants, who come here for the health care, and then do not pay is MORE expensive.  Treating Americans who choose to not have insurance, then ditch out on paying is expensive too.  But one step at a time.  Let's try to stop the bleeding to foreigners, both thru medical treatment AND thru simply sending them $$.

Jabba

Just curious as to why you didn't mention those who cannot afford health insurance. This is by far the largest group of uninsured in America and yet you only mention "Americans who choose not to have insurance". Sure, if you're young and employed, it's pretty much a no brainer but what about those who aren't old enough to tap into the Gov teet and can't afford health insurance because it's priced out of there reach? I know an awful lot of people in this category. What about them? Should they just die when they get sick???

[Jabba]

Just curious as to why you didn't mention those who cannot afford health insurance. This is by far the largest group of uninsured in America and yet you only mention "Americans who choose not to have insurance". Sure, if you're young and employed, it's pretty much a no brainer but what about those who aren't old enough to tap into the Gov teet and can't afford health insurance because it's priced out of there reach? I know an awful lot of people in this category. What about them? Should they just die when they get sick???

Because I think the number of people who CAN'T is smaller than those who WON'T.  The people that I know who "CAN'T" afford it still manage to somehow afford cell phones, cigarettes, beer, lotto tickets, pot, cable TV, a car, AC in their house, junk food, vacations etc.  Most could get better jobs if they WANTED to.  

Priorities:

Food
Shelter
Medicine
Medical Insurance
Other stuff.

I also think that employers should get OUT of providing healthcare insurance.  Just pay people the money, and let them buy their own.  Getting people involved in the COSTS of their OWN healthcare is a huge step in the right direction.  IMO.  YMMV.

Jabba

[BF]

Just curious as to why you didn't mention those who cannot afford health insurance. This is by far the largest group of uninsured in America and yet you only mention "Americans who choose not to have insurance". Sure, if you're young and employed, it's pretty much a no brainer but what about those who aren't old enough to tap into the Gov teet and can't afford health insurance because it's priced out of there reach? I know an awful lot of people in this category. What about them? Should they just die when they get sick???

Because I think the number of people who CAN'T is smaller than those who WON'T.  The people that I know who "CAN'T" afford it still manage to somehow afford cell phones, cigarettes, beer, lotto tickets, pot, cable TV, a car, AC in their house, junk food, vacations etc.  Most could get better jobs if they WANTED to.  

Priorities:

Food
Shelter
Medicine
Medical Insurance
Other stuff.

I also think that employers should get OUT of providing healthcare insurance.  Just pay people the money, and let them buy their own.  Getting people involved in the COSTS of their OWN healthcare is a huge step in the right direction.  IMO.  YMMV.

Jabba

Why should they do that?  The group purchase helps to keep the rates lower than what any individual could afford. 

For the vast majority of AMERICANS, holding and keeping a job is the ONLY way that they can have health insurance.  Most folks can't afford to buy single policies. 

The ability to keep and hold a job shouldn't be the requirement to healthcare. 

[cookiedough]

I wish there was a simple solution, but there isn't unfortunately.

I do know that one lady at work who is a grandma has 2 girls in their 20's who between the 2 have had like 7 kids with like 4 different mexican fathers all being supported 100% for FREE from our govt.  Our govt. shouldn't give them a free ride for healthcare like they are doing and instead force them to pay their own money for tying their tubes so no more kids will be getting a free ride OR no more health insurance (among food stamps, etc, etc.) will be coming their way.  

Family coverage thru my wife's employer has gone up considerably this past year and health care deductible and co-pays, for our needs anyways, have been tremendously increased.  Personally, I want to opt out of health care benefits entirely for our family and take our chances since over 300 bucks per month is being taken out of my wife's paycheck for just the 'just in case' need.  That near 4,000 dollar savings per year NOT paying the premiums for nothing since we never go to the dr. and never have (except for yearly free physical exams for the kids and my wife, I rarely go) could easily be saved up in case one of us need surgery or get deathly sick.  I understand for the past 20+ years of paying these premiums could easily have saved us over 80,000 dollars in expenses for not much benefit since none of us have had major need for healthcare ever, but I also understand one major surgery or illness could have wiped out that 80,000 savings in just one visit as well.

I know my opinions will be widely not in favor of, but that is how I feel.  Single coverage from my wife's employer is dirt cheap, but family coverage has gone up considerably.  

[Jabba]

Why should they do that?  The group purchase helps to keep the rates lower than what any individual could afford. 

For the vast majority of AMERICANS, holding and keeping a job is the ONLY way that they can have health insurance.  Most folks can't afford to buy single policies. 

The ability to keep and hold a job shouldn't be the requirement to healthcare. 

Because if EVERYONE had to buy their insurance there would not be groups... and EVERYONE's rates would drop due to competition.  Did you know that it's against the law for small companies to band together into insurance purchasing collectives to gain the advantage of having a larger group?  Why?  Because the insurance companies lobbied congress to make the law to prevent it so they can charge each group to make the group balance, and thus maximize their profits.  If small companies could band together... they could also enjoy the benefits of LARGE employers.  If everyone had to buy their own, we'd all be shopping, and they would HAVE to provide a better product.

That's WHY. 

Jabba

[Jabba]

 Single coverage from my wife's employer is dirt cheap, but family coverage has gone up considerably.  

It's only dirt cheap for YOU, it's NOT dirt cheap for the employer. 

As a soon to be employer, I have been seeing these costs skyrocket as I keep track of the company expenses.  We have 11 employees.  The company pays for insurance on the employee, and the employee has to pay for their families.  We have several people who are NOT using our insurance.  Me included in that.  What does my small business pay for it's lackluster insurance program?  $45,000 per year!  For 8 people.   

Why not allow us to join 200 other small businesses and have a group of 2000 instead of 10?  Or 1000 other small businesses and have a group of 10,000?   Or... better yet, have every American buy their own... and we can have a group of 300 MILLION.   

Jabba

[Lyn-Del]

There is no reason the mfgs. of these pills, etc. have to charge say 20 bucks a pill.  Greed is the name of the game and the govt. needs to step in and put a stop to overcharging for these meds.

I suspect the prices could come down if the tendency of folks to demand meds for everything, and always want the NEWEST meds were reduced.  Along with the habit of suing the manufacturers if there are side effects, even if those side effects are listed before they take the drug.

The costs of research and development of the drugs isn't cheap, testing for approval surely isn't cheap.  And those costs have to be recovered in the limited amount of time before the drug will be copied and distributed in generic versions.

The companies making the generics come in late enough that the side effects and lawsuits will have all been already known.

I don't like high drug prices either, but I can understand them.  Doesn't mean I want to have to pay them, though.

[art]

You guys are right but if our gov.didn't put out our money to support the rest of the world we could have health care for everybody.We provide military protection for half of the world and provide food and pay for rebuilding after natural disasters[who dose that for us].there are too many things to list that we use our money for overseas.Keep the money here and the jobs here.I was lucky when I lost my job to out sourcing I was just a few years from SS. I used all my 401 savings then was able to retire and also have a pension.how many people today have a pension?

[MP]

Also, cost of developing the drugs.  FDA announced a couple days ago several drugs they were denying.  They all cost OVER 1 BILLION each to develop, and were denied.  All that cost needs to be born by the drugs that do make it.

IF the company cannot make money, they will go out of business, then no new drugs.  Do you want that!

MP

[valkmc]

Cost will never go down until everyone has insurance. Getting all Americans on one plan would certianly reduce cost. I really dont care how we do it but I am sick of paying for others. I am a a school teacher (I know my decision) and dont mind paying healthcare cost for my sons and wife but with the cost the way they are I do not want to help anyone else ..sorry if that sounds selfish but I contribute to charities took a job for less $ to help youth and think I have done enough. The government waste enough money both here and over seas to cover everyone..we need to stop forcing the people who work, pay their taxes and take care of their own,to pay for those who dont. Blue Cross Blue Shield doesn't seem to be hurting to much, I think they have plenty of influence in government.

[BF]

Cost will never go down until everyone has insurance. Getting all Americans on one plan would certianly reduce cost. I really dont care how we do it but I am sick of paying for others. I am a a school teacher (I know my decision) and dont mind paying healthcare cost for my sons and wife but with the cost the way they are I do not want to help anyone else ..sorry if that sounds selfish but I contribute to charities took a job for less $ to help youth and think I have done enough. The government waste enough money both here and over seas to cover everyone..we need to stop forcing the people who work, pay their taxes and take care of their own,to pay for those who dont. Blue Cross Blue Shield doesn't seem to be hurting to much, I think they have plenty of influence in government.

Are you advacating universal healthcare?  If everyone has to buy insurance, then what's the difference from that than everyone paying taxes for universal healthcare?  But then, how do you get everyone to pay taxes.  Only about half of us do now?  Fair tax maybe?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to a government administered universal healthcare program, but as an option.  Allowing insurance companies the ability to cross state lines would be a HUGE start to lowering costs to where individuals could start to actually afford insurance.    

[Lyn-Del]

How can everyone be expected to buy insurance when the cost of insurance can be as much as 50% or more of annual income, before taxes?

[RudyF6]

  What surprises me is the number of folks that have no clue what health insurance really costs because it's always been a work benefit for them. One of my neighbors is retired from a GM plant, and whined like a baby when he was required to pay a portion of his coverage. I think it was around $100/month. He was floored when I told him my group coverage for a similar plan when I worked was up to around $1100/month, was increasing about 15-20% annually, and we only got $125 participation from the company. This was in 2007 and I dropped it for individual coverage.
  I now have an individual policy from Blue Cross that carries a $5000 deductible before 80% payment kicks in. It was originally around $230/month for myself and my wife. In late 2010, renewal time brought it to $280, and when I turned 50 in 2011 it went to $370! (Happy damn birthday!). Has your income increased that much in that time frame? I can't wait to see what the next couple of years brings. 

[Jabba]

how do you get everyone to pay taxes.  Only about half of us do now?  Fair tax maybe?

Yes yes YES!!!

Jabba

[Jeff K]

The point I rarely see brought up is the issue of continued care in a terminal or serious illness situation. People are assuming that in this bliss of ObamaCare or even the utopia of single payer that families won't "lose everything" Or go bankrupt when someone gets very sick. That may be true in a fiscal sense but if you believe the government is going to attempt to save your life at all costs... you are living in Bizzaro world.  I wonder where they will draw the line? Stage 4? Stage 3?
They will not be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep you with your family for one more year.

[Paxton]

Free at last....
The Ryan plan will save the system. It will make things better.    Think about it, no government involvement with Medicare
or Medic Aid.   Who needs bureaucrats rationing your health care?

The beauty of the Ryan plan is that you get to make your own decisions about yours and your family's health care. 
You just get your voucher and go on the private market.  
No interference from public or private insurance bureaucrats... finally!

[Jeff K]

Free at last....
The Ryan plan will save the system. It will make things better.    Think about it, no government involvement with Medicare
or Medic Aid.   Who needs bureaucrats rationing your health care?

The beauty of the Ryan plan is that you get to make your own decisions about yours and your family's health care. 
You just get your voucher and go on the private market.  
No interference from public or private insurance bureaucrats... finally!

There isn't a soul on this planet that could have been picked that you weren't ready to attack once the announcement was made.   

[valkmc]

Free at last....
The Ryan plan will save the system. It will make things better.    Think about it, no government involvement with Medicare
or Medic Aid.   Who needs bureaucrats rationing your health care?

The beauty of the Ryan plan is that you get to make your own decisions about yours and your family's health care. 
You just get your voucher and go on the private market.  
No interference from public or private insurance bureaucrats... finally!

I've got to read more on the Ryam plan..it sounds good but don't think he is anything other than a politician much like all the rest of them, oh and by the way after his father died tax payers paid for his college education.. I think he forgot that. I paid for my own every penny.

[BF]

The government can't run anything right. 

NASA just shot a robot up in space and landed it on a dime 250 millions miles away on another planet.

Maybe we should let NASA run our healthcare.   

[Jeff K]

The government can't run anything right. 

NASA just shot a robot up in space and landed it on a dime 250 millions miles away on another planet.

Maybe we should let NASA run our healthcare.   

Well, someone needs to move the dime higher. 




http://news.yahoo.com/nasas-morpheus-lander-fiery-crash-cape-canaveral-025325882.html

[BF]

One little oh sh!t and and there goes all of those attaboys. 

[valkmc]

The government can't run anything right.  

NASA just shot a robot up in space and landed it on a dime 250 millions miles away on another planet.

Maybe we should let NASA run our healthcare.  

They sure couldn't make it any worse...I say let them try!

[Paxton]

Jeff K;
I love you too.