Matter of Opinion(work, legal)

[YoungPUP]

A coworker was suspended friday for voicing his opinion of one of our supervisors managment abilities (or lack of) BEFORE the coworker had clocked in, but unfortunately with some colorful language. The supervisors reason for suspension was for referring to  him as F@#king Idiot while speaking to another employee (neither of them were on the clock yet). Opinions please as I am standing close to this and would like some input. I'm thinking First Ammendment issues...

[donaldcc]

  First Amendment has nothing to do with this.  That protects government suppression of speech.  

 Depends on the employment laws in your state.  In CA employment is "at will".  if you do not have a contract specifing your length of employment and terms for dismissal then your boss can walk in and fire you at any time with no reason.

 Looks bad for your co-worker.


MODIFY:  Googled Indiana employment law.  they are "at will" also.  your friend is screwed.  

[Willow]

Sounds to me like your co-worker is fortunate to have not already been fired.

It also sounds like the worker to whom he was expressing himself needs to distance himself quickly from the situation.

It's unclear from your description whether the comment in earshot of management was intentional or accidental.  If intentional, it wasn't the best application of good judgement.

[YoungPUP]

The comment/s were VERY intentional. 

[musclehead]

not a good idea to put your opinion out there on social media either.

either way, I never talk negatively about my coworkers, I keep it to myself, you never know who is golfing/riding/fishing buddies with whom.

I've worked with/and for a few fools and tin plated little tyrants, sometimes I'm amazed at my stoic-nicity.

[biguglyman]

I got walked out of work once for asking an idiot supervisor if she was "out of her effing mind".  Management claimed I was "creating a hostile work environment".  Had to do some fast talking to get back in.  She's still an idiot...

[art]

Retired now and no BS.I have worked union and non union machine shops.They can take non union shops and shove them.I have always been treated like a bit of dirt by supervisors that have risen to there level of incompetence by being brown nosers.The work conditions and pay -benifits were always better in union shops.I know a lot of people don't like unions but for a blue collar worker the can't be beat.My daughter is in that position right now and may lose her job because of some people higher up that have come to work at the wrong time of the month.No union, she is screwed

[fon1961]

It may make you feel better for a brief moment but in general cursing out a supervisor (before, during, or after work)  is not going to help your career. It doesn't matter if they are a complete idiot or not. Putting that energy into doing a better job or getting some specialized training will help empower you to get away from them though. Just my opinion. Hope things get better for you at work.

[Dave Ritsema]

As mentioned above, Indiana is an "at will" state. They can pretty much fire you anytime they want as long as it isn't for gender, religious, age or disability reasons. If they decide today they are getting rid of everyone that is wearing blue shirts and you're wearing one, they can do it as long as you were not singled out for the reasons above.

And yes, I know this from personal experience.

Tell him to save his money as far as hiring a lawyer and just hope they don't contest his unemployment. (And yes they can do that also.)

[BF]

Ditto the "at will".  The employer has the right to terminate any employee at any time, without notice, for any reason, whatsoever.  If you have an employee handbook, it's probably printed in the first paragraph on the first page of that handbook. 

Unfortunately, you have no rights as an employee.  The only protections you have are under an individually bargined contract the spells out the terms and conditions of your employment, or a collectivelly bargined contract (union) for the same.  No contract, no rights. 

"At will" states guarantee that employers have all the rights.....and you the employee continue to have no rights.  It's the law.   

They just let a woman go at my wife's place of employment for derogatory comments that she had made towards the boss (including some veiled threats) on her Facebook page.  Employers DO check that sort of stuff. 

[Momz]

A good supervisor would have used overheard comments to reflect on his/her style of management, then had a private consultation with that employee.

I have worked in union and non-union environments, as well as both hourly and salaried positions. And I have also worked as a supervisor and had to talk to employees about their work habits/ethics. But it was always done in private, no matter how vocal their opposition to my directions.

YoungPUP, your caring shows that there are ethical individuals still out in the workplace, but stay quiet until the "storm blows over".

[fudgie]

Was he still at work when the comments were made or away on 'his own time'? You showed be able to file a greivence with HR.

[fon1961]

A good supervisor would have used overheard comments to reflect on his/her style of management, then had a private consultation with that employee.

I have worked in union and non-union environments, as well as both hourly and salaried positions. And I have also worked as a supervisor and had to talk to employees about their work habits/ethics. But it was always done in private, no matter how vocal their opposition to my directions.

YoungPUP, your caring shows that there are ethical individuals still out in the workplace, but stay quiet until the "storm blows over".

+1 

[CajunRider]

Clocked in or not clocked in doesn't matter.  Union or not doesn't matter.

When you are on company property, you should act like a professional at ALL times.  

Now, if all this was said at a bar, over a beer with friends... then the manager should be the one getting a review for letting personal life alter his business work ethics.  

[musclehead]

A good supervisor would have used overheard comments to reflect on his/her style of management, then had a private consultation with that employee.

I have worked in union and non-union environments, as well as both hourly and salaried positions. And I have also worked as a supervisor and had to talk to employees about their work habits/ethics. But it was always done in private, no matter how vocal their opposition to my directions.

YoungPUP, your caring shows that there are ethical individuals still out in the workplace, but stay quiet until the "storm blows over".

as a supervisor your praise employees in public and smack'em down in private, that's what works the best.

[YoungPUP]

The guy did this in the driver check-in/waiting room where we work. Within ear shot of said manager and about 20 other drivers.  He was Quickly told to shut-up by several of us (me included) and did so. The damage was apparently done at that point.  Hopefully the Union (Teamsters) can bail him out of this one,  I don't like seeing anyone getting suspended let alone fired at all, But especially not for something as dumb as this.   

[BF]

Was he still at work when the comments were made or away on 'his own time'? You showed be able to file a greivence with HR.

Employees generally believe that HR is there to help them, but in reality, HR's primary function is to protect management from the employees.  When dealing with HR, one needs to keep in mind that the people that staff HR ARE management. 

[donaldcc]

. . .  Hopefully the Union (Teamsters) can bail him out of this one, . . .

  Union??? Maybe there is a contract that specifically covers termination rights?  Would not be "at will" then.

[old2soon]

The guy did this in the driver check-in/waiting room where we work. Within ear shot of said manager and about 20 other drivers.  He was Quickly told to shut-up by several of us (me included) and did so. The damage was apparently done at that point.  Hopefully the Union (Teamsters) can bail him out of this one,  I don't like seeing anyone getting suspended let alone fired at all, But especially not for something as dumb as this.   

If you have a union steward who is NOT in the companies pocket-maybe his job MIGHT be saved. But if his job is saved he is a MARKED man. The company will be paying attention to job performance how he handles himself and ANYTHING he sez. You most likely have informers in the rank and file. Don't believe that?? You might later on down the line. Damn-hearing bout this chit makes me enjoy my retirement way more.  RIDE SAFE.

[art]

Human resource ,I hate that word.I am a person not a resource,that is a management word.They will not help anyone but management.A resource is like a lump of coal,a pallet of steel not a person.And yes if he is in a union shop he ahs a chance of keeping his job and he should be careful of what he says and where he opens his mouth

[GreenLantern57]

Human resource ,I hate that word.I am a person not a resource,that is a management word.They will not help anyone but management.A resource is like a lump of coal,a pallet of steel not a person.And yes if he is in a union shop he ahs a chance of keeping his job and he should be careful of what he says and where he opens his mouth

I has not been that long ago I worked for a company that referred to us FTE.  We were Full Time Equevelant. Mean that there are enough hours to be worked so they can hire a warm body.

[art]

Thats ok I guess because we always refered to them[managment] as a--holes.

[BF]

Human resource ,I hate that word.I am a person not a resource,that is a management word.They will not help anyone but management.A resource is like a lump of coal,a pallet of steel not a person.And yes if he is in a union shop he ahs a chance of keeping his job and he should be careful of what he says and where he opens his mouth

I has not been that long ago I worked for a company that referred to us FTE.  We were Full Time Equevelant. Mean that there are enough hours to be worked so they can hire a warm body.

The last company that held the contract we work on designated the employees into two catagories....."valued" employees and "non-valued" employees.  The valued employees were defined as salaried/management.  Everyone else apparently had no value......according to them.  I saw the company form with the definitions on them myself.   


   

[The Anvil]

A good supervisor would have used overheard comments to reflect on his/her style of management, then had a private consultation with that employee.

I have worked in union and non-union environments, as well as both hourly and salaried positions. And I have also worked as a supervisor and had to talk to employees about their work habits/ethics. But it was always done in private, no matter how vocal their opposition to my directions.

YoungPUP, your caring shows that there are ethical individuals still out in the workplace, but stay quiet until the "storm blows over".

You don't need to be a good supervisor. You just need to know which asses to kiss.

Enjoy your new America, people. Employees have very few rights or protections. Even employees of 18 years with no blemishes on their records can be let go for anything or nothing. Let's say they just want to replace you with a new-graduate and pay them 1/2 what you're making then they'll do it. Oh, you can bet your ass they'll do it. It's 1901 all over again and you might as well tack a dollar bill onto the cross to replace Jesus.

[doubletee]

Ditto the "at will".  The employer has the right to terminate any employee at any time, without notice, for any reason, whatsoever.  If you have an employee handbook, it's probably printed in the first paragraph on the first page of that handbook. 

Unfortunately, you have no rights as an employee.  The only protections you have are under an individually bargined contract the spells out the terms and conditions of your employment, or a collectivelly bargined contract (union) for the same.  No contract, no rights. 

"At will" states guarantee that employers have all the rights.....and you the employee continue to have no rights.  It's the law.   

They just let a woman go at my wife's place of employment for derogatory comments that she had made towards the boss (including some veiled threats) on her Facebook page.  Employers DO check that sort of stuff. 

Actually, one does have a right as an employee in an "at will" state. He or she has the right to quit at any time for any reason, or no reason, without any notice.

[RP#62]

Was he still at work when the comments were made or away on 'his own time'? You showed be able to file a greivence with HR.

Employees generally believe that HR is there to help them, but in reality, HR's primary function is to protect management from the employees.  When dealing with HR, one needs to keep in mind that the people that staff HR ARE management. 

From what I have seen, HR is there to keep the company from getting sued. Period. Has nothing to do with justice, protection, right or wrong or doing the right thing.

-RP