Canadian HO Alternator

[PhredValk]

Just info; I received my new 90Amp alternator from Cooper Bros in Edmonton today. It's a GL1500 stock replacement for Goldwing, so I don't know if it's going to take mods to the bike to install, like the Compufire. WPS (World Power Systems), Canadian company so no customs. $325 plus tax new retail, no core charge.
Fred.

[Novavalker]

Just info; I received my new 90Amp alternator from Cooper Bros in Edmonton today. It's a GL1500 stock replacement for Goldwing, so I don't know if it's going to take mods to the bike to install, like the Compufire. WPS (World Power Systems), Canadian company so no customs. $325 plus tax new retail, no core charge.
Fred.

When I googled World Power Systems it is based out of the USA.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/honda4.html
There price is 203.99 for the 90 amp alternator. I can get it shipped to the Hardware store in Calais ME and still be well within the personal exception for customs. I don't like using UPS and getting stiffed with brokerage fees.

Sill thanks for the heads up on this find. I would be interested if this alternator fits without doing any modifications. Keep us up to date on how she fits.

[Gryphon Rider]

Good to know. 

[valky1500]

Just info; I received my new 90Amp alternator from Cooper Bros in Edmonton today. It's a GL1500 stock replacement for Goldwing, so I don't know if it's going to take mods to the bike to install, like the Compufire. WPS (World Power Systems), Canadian company so no customs. $325 plus tax new retail, no core charge.
Fred.

This alternator puts out too much power for the stock Valkyrie battery. The alternator will ruin the stock battery. 

[PhredValk]

That's right, according to Compufire. I mentioned it to the parts guy and his thoughts are that the mfgr doesn't think so as the unit will only put out what is demanded by the bike's systems. We'll find out...
Fred.

[jimmytee]

Yeah,  I wouldn't think the high output would be a problem. The high output is the load it is capable of powering. It doesn't mean it puts out that at a constant. The current drawn should be dictated by demand.

[Sigrún]

This alternator puts out too much power for the stock Valkyrie battery. The alternator will ruin the stock battery. 

Guys........

What do you think charging controls  are for? You can ruin any battery with almost any alternator if you let the charging voltage run too high but that is exactly why there is that wonderful little controlling device......

[valky1500]

This alternator puts out too much power for the stock Valkyrie battery. The alternator will ruin the stock battery. 

Guys........

What do you think charging controls  are for? You can ruin any battery with almost any alternator if you let the charging voltage run too high but that is exactly why there is that wonderful little controlling device......

May I ask where do you think the voltage regulator is at? 

[Sigrún]

May I ask where do you think the voltage regulator is at? 

Built into the alternator together with the rectifier, item #11

http://www.dfwhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2137136&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=2001&fveh=124894

And yes, all alternator systems have one 

[valky1500]

May I ask where do you think the voltage regulator is at? 

Built into the alternator together with the rectifier, item #11

http://www.dfwhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2137136&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=2001&fveh=124894

And yes, all alternator systems have one 

Yes OK...
that said...
why would anyone then need to care (or not care) about matching the battery to the alternator output (the regulator)?

[Farther]

Yes OK...that said...why would anyone then need to care (or not care) about matching the battery to the alternator output (the regulator)?

Because you said on post #3 that "The alternator will ruin the stock battery".  Seems like we're talking in circles here.  I also think you are approaching your lifetime limit of imoticon use.

[Sigrún]

What Farther said.....

Plus there's  a bit more relation on power consumption on your bike ( or any other vehicle for that matter ) to the power / current output of your alternator. Charging the battery does not require all that much current, but if all the other gimmicks are sucking all the juice from your charging system ( alternator ) then of course the rest has to come from the battery, which then don't get charged at all. So the battery capacity does not really come into that equation very much.

Can you  tell that I've just returned from the garage after replacing my alternator..... 

[MarkT]

Sorry guys.  Speaking from experience here.  My 90 amp Compufire ruined two stock batteries, the second one was brand new. Cooked them and warped the plates.  If you don't put a bigger battery in, I'm pretty sure you will be buying one anyway.  I don't think my brand new Compufire had a defective regulator, either.  The right size battery is the one issued for the Gold Wing.  You can fit it in the battery tray with a little surgery on the battery box with a Dremel.  I turned mine 90° so the long way is fore-aft.

[valky1500]

Sorry guys.  Speaking from experience here.  My 90 amp Compufire ruined two stock batteries, the second one was brand new. Cooked them and warped the plates.  If you don't put a bigger battery in, I'm pretty sure you will be buying one anyway.  I don't think my brand new Compufire had a defective regulator, either.  The right size battery is the one issued for the Gold Wing.  You can fit it in the battery tray with a little surgery on the battery box with a Dremel.  I turned mine 90° so the long way is fore-aft.

+1
No circles there.   

[PhredValk]

I'll be putting it in over the winter, so won't really know for a while. If I need a bigger battery, so be it; though I need the room for the Audiovox cruise control as well. Innovation LOVES a challenge..
Fred.

[valky1500]

I'll be putting it in over the winter, so won't really know for a while. If I need a bigger battery, so be it; though I need the room for the Audiovox cruise control as well. Innovation LOVES a challenge..
Fred.

When upgrading an alternator to a higher amperage it's always important to make sure that the charge wire is properly sized so you don't fry it. Putting a fusible link on that circuit (where it ties to battery voltage) is also a good idea so if something get's shorted.  You don't fry the harness and or the battery.   

They put out lots of current at low RPM but why have the larger alternator if you will never use it?   

[valky1500]

Sorry guys.  Speaking from experience here.  My 90 amp Compufire ruined two stock batteries, the second one was brand new. Cooked them and warped the plates.  If you don't put a bigger battery in, I'm pretty sure you will be buying one anyway.  I don't think my brand new Compufire had a defective regulator, either.  The right size battery is the one issued for the Gold Wing.  You can fit it in the battery tray with a little surgery on the battery box with a Dremel.  I turned mine 90° so the long way is fore-aft.

Any alternator regardless of the amperage output rating can fry a battery and or other accessories if the regulator goes out and the voltage goes too high.   

In most cases the bigger alternators need bigger batteries to be efficient. You also have to upgrade your main cables according to how much amp draw.

Keep in mind that it's the battery that takes the load and the alternator charges the battery. So do the math on the the size of the amp draw you are using and keep in mind that the larger alternators do not always charge at low rpm's like the smaller ones.   

[Sigrún]

When upgrading an alternator to a higher amperage it's always important to make sure that the charge wire is properly sized so you don't fry it. Putting a fusible link on that circuit (where it ties to battery voltage) is also a good idea so if something get's shorted.  You don't fry the harness and or the battery.   

They put out lots of current at low RPM but why have the larger alternator if you will never use it?   

Well it just so happens there is a 55amp alternator fuse in the wiring built in, right under the right hand side fairing. Part #26 in the attached link

http://www.dfwhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2137316&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=2001&fveh=124894

I suppose you might wanth to upgrade that as well if you're planning to put 90A through it......

[valky1500]

When upgrading an alternator to a higher amperage it's always important to make sure that the charge wire is properly sized so you don't fry it. Putting a fusible link on that circuit (where it ties to battery voltage) is also a good idea so if something get's shorted.  You don't fry the harness and or the battery.   

They put out lots of current at low RPM but why have the larger alternator if you will never use it?   

Well it just so happens there is a 55amp alternator fuse in the wiring built in, right under the right hand side fairing. Part #26 in the attached link

http://www.dfwhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2137316&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=2001&fveh=124894

I suppose you might wanth to upgrade that as well if you're planning to put 90A through it......

That fuse in question will protect anything after the battery such as wiring hrness...

but not the battery itself or anything that's connected into it...

like you running lights or another circuit. 

[Sigrún]

That fuse in question will protect anything after the battery such as wiring hrness...

but not the battery itself or anything that's connected into it...

like you running lights or another circuit. 

I see

Better call the service manual people then who've mistakenly labeled that as a "alternator fuse 55 A"

I give up......

[Hoser]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

[R J]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

I'm with you John, I've got a lot of sheet on MGM and running the stock alternator,  can't really see a need for a high output alternator.

I put high output on the Chevy Trike cause I had a bunch of extra lights on it.    It gave me crap from the time I installed it till I replaced it with a chrome stock alternator.

I'd say run the stock alternator.   Maybe Ricky-D will jump in and give us a reason for a high output needed.

[MarkT]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

As for the need -I had added so much draw that the lights would dim at idle.  At that time I had about 500 watts on the front of the bike.  Have less now - 130 + 55 + 55 + 50 + 50 + 13 + 13 = 366.  Then the 400w amp (draw varies) electric liner & gloves (115w), compressor (I think 240w) Plus misc running lights & around 350LED's and their resistors and stringlights with inverters plus whatever the bike needs to run.  Yep I can use most of output of that 1.3kW alternator if everything is on.  I REALLY like lighting up the road thoroughly in deer country.

[valky1500]

That fuse in question will protect anything after the battery such as wiring hrness...

but not the battery itself or anything that's connected into it...

like you running lights or another circuit.  

I see

Better call the service manual people then who've mistakenly labeled that as a "alternator fuse 55 A"

I give up......

Don't forget that alternators today are 3 wire and not 1 wire. That 55amp fuse is on the SLI (starting, lights and ignition) side and supposedly protects the wire harness, switches and relays only. In-other-words, not the charge wire (ie. the Battery itself) or anything else that's connected directly to it.  

[valky1500]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

That is like saying you're gonna use the wrong light bulbs, spark plugs or oil because they work and because you want to. I mean it's your bike right and it's your choice. No problems. 

That is until you start having problems and they will happen because you used the wrong parts for the bike. 

I wouldn't be surprised if half of those who read this stuff in here are using stainless nuts and bolts on the alloys because they say it doesn't rust.

[valky1500]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

As for the need -I had added so much draw that the lights would dim at idle.  At that time I had about 500 watts on the front of the bike.  Have less now - 130 + 55 + 55 + 50 + 50 + 13 + 13 = 366.  Then the 400w amp (draw varies) electric liner & gloves (115w), compressor (I think 240w) Plus misc running lights & around 350LED's and their resistors and stringlights with inverters plus whatever the bike needs to run.  Yep I can use most of output of that 1.3kW alternator if everything is on.  I REALLY like lighting up the road thoroughly in deer country.

+1
I enjoy all of those lights too.
I'm sure you're using a fuse block connected with a fused wire and a ground to the battery...

and relays to the circuits.   

It does open up the alternator for its' full power usage and feeds all of those separated circuits with the power they need as it bypasses the battery. That is a good thing but gets scary because of so many things that are unpredictable can happen.   

As most of those things will be ground out associated...

and I say- Have your fun. 

[Hoser]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

That is like saying you're gonna use the wrong light bulbs, spark plugs or oil because they work and because you want to. I mean it's your bike right and it's your choice. No problems. 

That is until you start having problems and they will happen because you used the wrong parts for the bike. 

I wouldn't be surprised if half of those who read this stuff in here are using stainless nuts and bolts on the alloys because they say it doesn't rust.

Guess I don't understand, what wrong parts am I using? It is the oem alternator, and oem battery that I use.  Hoser  ???

[valky1500]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

That is like saying you're gonna use the wrong light bulbs, spark plugs or oil because they work and because you want to. I mean it's your bike right and it's your choice. No problems. 

That is until you start having problems and they will happen because you used the wrong parts for the bike. 

I wouldn't be surprised if half of those who read this stuff in here are using stainless nuts and bolts on the alloys because they say it doesn't rust.

Guess I don't understand, what wrong parts am I using? It is the oem alternator, and oem battery that I use.  Hoser  ???

I'm s sorry for any misunderstanding you may have about my comments...   

but I can't say I have ever seen a 35amp light, let alone 2, on a motorcycle before.   

The OEM alternator on the IS is only a 40amp.   
http://www.emsglobaldirect.com/product.php?productid=435&cat=17&page=1

[valky1500]

Sorry guys.  Speaking from experience here.  My 90 amp Compufire ruined two stock batteries, the second one was brand new. Cooked them and warped the plates.  If you don't put a bigger battery in, I'm pretty sure you will be buying one anyway.  I don't think my brand new Compufire had a defective regulator, either.  The right size battery is the one issued for the Gold Wing.  You can fit it in the battery tray with a little surgery on the battery box with a Dremel.  I turned mine 90° so the long way is fore-aft.

According to Kuryakyn:
"With two & one half times the output of the stock charging system, this is THE solution to charging problems on GL1500's even if the bike is LOADED with electrical accessories. The 90 amp alternator features temperature compensated voltage regulation, a full 12 month warranty, & delivers an amazing 60 amps even at idle!" http://wingdreams.com/proddetail.asp?prod=501

Whoa, sounds good... 

notice how it has a matched battery too... 

but the GW uses larger wires for all that stuff too... 

and I'd wanna see all that in writing before I tried it out.   

[MarkT]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

As for the need -I had added so much draw that the lights would dim at idle.  At that time I had about 500 watts on the front of the bike.  Have less now - 130 + 55 + 55 + 50 + 50 + 13 + 13 = 366.  Then the 400w amp (draw varies) electric liner & gloves (115w), compressor (I think 240w) Plus misc running lights & around 350LED's and their resistors and stringlights with inverters plus whatever the bike needs to run.  Yep I can use most of output of that 1.3kW alternator if everything is on.  I REALLY like lighting up the road thoroughly in deer country.

+1
I enjoy all of those lights too.
I'm sure you're using a fuse block connected with a fused wire and a ground to the battery...

and relays to the circuits.  

It does open up the alternator for its' full power usage and feeds all of those separated circuits with the power they need as it bypasses the battery. That is a good thing but gets scary because of so many things that are unpredictable can happen.  

As most of those things will be ground out associated...

and I say- Have your fun.  

I installed a 10-circuit fuse block that is fed off the fusible link which covers most of the extra circuits though there are a few more with inline fuses.  (Not counting the night lights circuit for all the LED's which I split up into 9 seperate fused circuits to aid repairs when a short shuts down one branch. It would be a nightmare trying to find a short on that complex circuit, and likely to happen with so many thin wires where just one could get chafed by a sharp edge and short to ground.) There's maybe a dozen relays I've added powering the circuits besides the two I used to seperate the sources for the turn/brake filiments in the back markers.  I've had like one relay failure in the 15 years I've had the bike.  Of course all connections are soldered and shrink wrapped, and all wires have extra shrink wrap to act as a loom or grommet to protect from pinching/chafing.  I never use any kind of quick or crimp connectors w/o soldering them.  Such connections are certain to fail it's just a matter of time and moisture.

[Hoser]

I am running on my original  alternator.  I have two 35 amp driving lights, an airhorn and a cigarette  lighter wired on separate circuits.  I am on my third battery.  After 110000 miles and ten years, when and if it quits, I think I will just rebuild it and use it again. Seems to be a good one. Hoser 

That is like saying you're gonna use the wrong light bulbs, spark plugs or oil because they work and because you want to. I mean it's your bike right and it's your choice. No problems. 

That is until you start having problems and they will happen because you used the wrong parts for the bike. 

I wouldn't be surprised if half of those who read this stuff in here are using stainless nuts and bolts on the alloys because they say it doesn't rust.

Guess I don't understand, what wrong parts am I using? It is the oem alternator, and oem battery that I use.  Hoser  ???

I'm s sorry for any misunderstanding you may have about my comments...   

but I can't say I have ever seen a 35amp light, let alone 2, on a motorcycle before.   

The OEM alternator on the IS is only a 40amp.   
http://www.emsglobaldirect.com/product.php?productid=435&cat=17&page=1

Ah haa!  My bad, I meant 35 WATTs.    Hoser

[Gryphon Rider]

That fuse in question will protect anything after the battery such as wiring hrness...
but not the battery itself or anything that's connected into it...
like you running lights or another circuit.

I see
Better call the service manual people then who've mistakenly labeled that as a "alternator fuse 55 A"
I give up......

Don't forget that alternators today are 3 wire and not 1 wire. That 55amp fuse is on the SLI (starting, lights and ignition) side and supposedly protects the wire harness, switches and relays only. In-other-words, not the charge wire (ie. the Battery itself) or anything else that's connected directly to it.

Valky1500, you continue to present error as fact.  The ONLY wire that that 55A fusible link protects is the one that connects the alternator to the battery positive terminal.

[Sigrún]

Valky1500, you continue to present error as fact.  The ONLY wire that that 55A fusible link protects is the one that connects the alternator to the battery positive terminal.

Thank you

[valky1500]

That fuse in question will protect anything after the battery such as wiring hrness...
but not the battery itself or anything that's connected into it...
like you running lights or another circuit.

I see
Better call the service manual people then who've mistakenly labeled that as a "alternator fuse 55 A"
I give up......

Don't forget that alternators today are 3 wire and not 1 wire. That 55amp fuse is on the SLI (starting, lights and ignition) side and supposedly protects the wire harness, switches and relays only. In-other-words, not the charge wire (ie. the Battery itself) or anything else that's connected directly to it.

Valky1500, you continue to present error as fact.  The ONLY wire that that 55A fusible link protects is the one that connects the alternator to the battery positive terminal.

You are a funny one. 
Very good there you said what I said...     
but you're not saying what it does once connected to the battery... 
but I did.   

[Gryphon Rider]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

Mark, is it possible that sealing the fusible link(s) in rubber would prevent the link from doing its job?  I.e. if there was enough current to otherwise melt the link, instead enough heat is carried away by the rubber to prevent the link from melting.  Alternately, the link does melt, but the rubber holds the liquid metal in place, allowing the circuit to stay closed when it would otherwise be protected by the link doing its job.

[MarkT]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

Mark, is it possible that sealing the fusible link(s) in rubber would prevent the link from doing its job?  I.e. if there was enough current to otherwise melt the link, instead enough heat is carried away by the rubber to prevent the link from melting.  Alternately, the link does melt, but the rubber holds the liquid metal in place, allowing the circuit to stay closed when it would otherwise be protected by the link doing its job.

I don't think so.  A short bad enough to blow that 110amp fuse would have to be a short of that heavy wire to ground, not some branch circuit I'm sure - since they are all fused with appropriate lessor amp fuses.  I think if that big one blows it will melt the rubber out too.  A short that bad could cause a wire fire. My main concern was to seal it against moisture and oxygen to prevent galvanic corrosion and thus ensure the connection didn't degrade in capacity.  It had heated up before and melted it's carrier because of corrosion on the connection on the end of the link.  That one put me on the side of the road, and taking another bike to go get the trailer. 

[valky1500]

Compufire says to stack the fusable link fuse - did that and have 110 amp fuse.  Had a problem with cooking the end of that carrier once.  Replaced it, added conduction compound then sealed the whole thing with liquid rubber.  Never a problem since.

Mark, is it possible that sealing the fusible link(s) in rubber would prevent the link from doing its job?  I.e. if there was enough current to otherwise melt the link, instead enough heat is carried away by the rubber to prevent the link from melting.  Alternately, the link does melt, but the rubber holds the liquid metal in place, allowing the circuit to stay closed when it would otherwise be protected by the link doing its job.

I don't think so.  A short bad enough to blow that 110amp fuse would have to be a short of that heavy wire to ground, not some branch circuit I'm sure - since they are all fused with appropriate lessor amp fuses.  I think if that big one blows it will melt the rubber out too.  A short that bad could cause a wire fire. My main concern was to seal it against moisture and oxygen to prevent galvanic corrosion and thus ensure the connection didn't degrade in capacity.  It had heated up before and melted it's carrier because of corrosion on the connection on the end of the link.  That one put me on the side of the road, and taking another bike to go get the trailer. 

Ummm...
Yea that's fun isn't it. 

[PhredValk]

So...double up on the 55 amp link or find a 110 and get the battery cables for the 1500 wing? Run fused relay based circuits for everything and I should be OK? All this is stuff I never thought about, and makes sense. Thanks, guys, I'll document it (with pics) when I do it in the spring, and let you know what happens. Wish me luck...
Fred.

[Gryphon Rider]

So...double up on the 55 amp link or find a 110 and get the battery cables for the 1500 wing? Run fused relay based circuits for everything and I should be OK? All this is stuff I never thought about, and makes sense. Thanks, guys, I'll document it (with pics) when I do it in the spring, and let you know what happens. Wish me luck...
Fred.

I would take MarkT's advice and be ready to replace the battery with a larger GoldWing battery.

I mentioned it to the parts guy and his thoughts are that the mfgr doesn't think so as the unit will only put out what is demanded by the bike's systems.

This statement doesn't consider that a discharged battery will take whatever current is available to recharge itself.

I have no idea if GW cables are the right fit, but I would certainly increase the battery cable size to match/exceed the GW cables.

Based on this web page, I would use 4 gauge or 2 gauge wire for battery cables with a 90A alternator.
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Good luck!

[valky1500]

So...double up on the 55 amp link or find a 110 and get the battery cables for the 1500 wing? Run fused relay based circuits for everything and I should be OK? All this is stuff I never thought about, and makes sense. Thanks, guys, I'll document it (with pics) when I do it in the spring, and let you know what happens. Wish me luck...
Fred.

As stated a few times above...

When upgrading to a more powerful alternator it isn't the wires that will cause you problems and the OEM fuze is fine.

#1- It is the Valkyrie battery that is too small for the added load and the remedy for that is the GW1500 battery which is the right size for this application. That is ...

#2- as long as you don't overdue it by adding more electrics than the fuze and wire can handle.

#3- If you do that then is the time to upgrade the fuze and wires together and maybe another battery...

at the battery of course.