Illegal immigrant thought. (political, sorry.)

[alph]

The other day a thought dawned on me; why does our government do nothing about illegal immigration?  Well, maybe they're getting drug money?  Think of it, if we tighten up our borders we'd tighten up the illegal drug trafficking coming into America.  So, maybe the drug dealers have bought our politicians the way the pharmaceutical companies have them bought.  The easier it is to bring the drugs in, the more money they make!! 
 
Now, understand, my mother and father came from Italy.  LEGALLY.  Neither my mother or father, or any of their relatives EVER took any government money, NEVER.  A matter of fact, we never knew anyone that did until we moved to a small town up north..  now, if you don't have a job, you are on government aid of some sort and the only people that deserve it can't get it!!


Just my thought.

[Hooter]

  

  This is a hot ticket item....and for the record, I'm 1/4 Native American. I spent 28 years as a LEO and when I started it was not so diverse. Now that isn't the case, it is diverse and much to LE advantage in everyday situations. This is just what I've seen here and my observations: I spend a lot of time in the outside local and surrounding areas. I'm going to elude to the Hispanic people because that is all I see in my area so I use it in this comparison or situation. For the record, drugs come from everywhere. Meth is made right here in America and from items purchased everyday in most any store. Meth in itself is out of control and has become a big deal, more so than most any other drug to date and Its home grown. Cooks and tweakers are in every town.

Observation:  Its 95*+ out and construction is hot and heavy in my area and I would imagine throughout the entire United States. (no pun intended) The curb / concrete crew is Hispanic and they are working their asses off and moving foward at a steady pace. I have "never" seen  any crew work like this and its year after year, and I see it year after year.  Now I don't know how to put this without offending anyone, but where is the so called American? Too hot, heavy, and long hours for us, but the Hispanic people move on, don't bitch, and get the job done.

Same thing in the fields. Blueberries, apples, peaches, etc etc: Migrant workers picking all the fruit under the same afore mentioned conditions. Where is everbody else? They are up before daylight and leave after dark. Without these people, right wrong or indifferent, who would do what they do? Are the American farmers taking advantage of these people? To some extent because the average American wouldn't work under the same conditions or for the same pay and worfk the hours. They'd bitch, work 5 hours, and quit.

This country is immigration, it was built on immigration, but was done years ago under very adverse conditons. I guess people looking for the golden egg?  Back then there wasn't the same legalities there are today. People argue that they (illegal immigrants) are taking American jobs? But that is my comparison as stated above. The average American won't work like even the Hispanics do. Standards too high and now, too lazy and want big pay. I'm NOT  a proponent of Illigal immigration but just as I stated above, who's going to do even this kind of work like I have stated. Let the flame begin.  



This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. I have a friend that lost his job just like a bunch of people have. It sucks but he as offered a job for a starting pay of $14.75 an hour. He state: "I ain't working for no 14 bucks an hour, thats BS. When he lost his job he made $22.00 and hour. So all he does is bitch and ran out of unemployment. But $14.00 isn't good enough.

[musclehead]

 





This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. I have a friend that lost his job just like a bunch of people have. It sucks but he as offered a job for a starting pay of $14.75 an hour. He state: "I ain't working for no 14 bucks an hour, thats BS. When he lost his job he made $22.00 and hour. So all he does is bitch and ran out of unemployment. But $14.00 isn't good enough.

yup. I believe most who come here are looking for the oppertunity that some Americans have forgotten we have.
not all that cross the border (legal or otherwise) are looking to become a good producing citizen of these united states but most are.

my best bud in Oregon lost his $15 per hour job and turned up his nose at many lower paying jobs saying it was not worth it. he just stayed on unemployment and when it ran out he took what he could.

it worked out for him he has his dream job working as a server tech for apple.

[Oss]

I really dont believe it is the immigration by itself

I believe,  that it is the
"entitlements" that drive and go hand in hand with the decay of the USA

free meals, rent vouchers, medical, phone school drive with no insurance while drunk
commit drug and gun crimes with no fear  

we teach people who do NOT BOTHER to learn the language of this country
that they have a RIGHT To all these free handouts

That worker in the fields can have a green card if he or she wants to work

when the field is done the bus goes back to Mexico with an armed guard if necessary

one of my grandparents came here in 1906 escaping a pogram (Cossacks burned the entire village) with his sister and no possessions he was sponsored here by his father who came 5 yrs before  He was never rich in fact he was always damn poor but he learned the language and both his kids put themselves thru college while working
and he always tried to help those with less than himself

That is the kind of example kids today need to emulate, keep working keep tryin to better yourself

[Hooter]

   I agree OSS. There needs to be a system in place for seasonal green cards. I don't think that is even possible. Its irritating to  even read everything sold anymore with 3 or 4 languages in  the instructions. My great grandmother and  grandmother spoke Ute for years but they also spoke english. But, no matter what we do someone(s) will always slip thru the cracks. Tough business to be in to keep this from happening. None of this is an easy fix.

[Willow]

Just a random thought.  The folks who most bitch about illegal immigration are the descendents of either illegal immigrants or those sponsored by the government formed by the illegal European immigrants.  The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore.

Political boundaries are synthetically drawn by governmental powers who have demonstrated their ability either singly or in concert with their allies to forcefully hold territory.

So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?

They are mostly here because we need them.  I do think we as a people need to address the issue and put our efforts into the struggle to prolong the few years during which our culture is allowed to dominate this plot of ground.  It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have.  

My great great great grandfather was Pe Sa Te Cubbee.  Who was yours?      

[steve 3054]

Sadly, White people will not work for what they feel is beneath them, those on entitlement programs are what they are...people who come here to work, work at jobs WE won't do and we require to have done...so they are needed and to some degree, wanted.  I know of a farmer in NY who grows apples last year had his crop fall on the ground because he could not find anyone to pick them...sad.  Until we reform our " free money " programs nothing will change

[Hoser]

"I'm NOT  a proponent of Illigal immigration but just as I stated above, who's going to do even this kind of work like I have stated. Let the flame begin."  

I always did.  I think a lot of us did.  I am speaking of this club, not the population as a whole.  I can't figure that out either.  Maybe we didn't just want to get by, instead of living as well as possible.  Hoser  ???

[RP#62]

Just a random thought.  The folks who most bitch about illegal immigration are the descendents of either illegal immigrants or those sponsored by the government formed by the illegal European immigrants.  The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore.

Political boundaries are synthetically drawn by governmental powers who have demonstrated their ability either singly or in concert with their allies to forcefully hold territory.

So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?

They are mostly here because we need them.  I do think we as a people need to address the issue and put our efforts into the struggle to prolong the few years during which our culture is allowed to dominate this plot of ground.  It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have.  

My great great great grandfather was Pe Sa Te Cubbee.  Who was yours?      

"The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore." - Yes, but they too were illegal aliens from asia.  Its just a matter of how far back you want to go.  The native americans whose land was seized by the evil europeans were not likely the original owners/occupiers of that land, they most likely seized it from other tribes, who most likely acquired it the same way.

"So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?"  Lots of irony here since they don't speak Aztec or Toltec, but Spanish, another European language.

"They are mostly here because we need them."  I don't know if its that or that we just don't have the will to keep them out.

"It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have."  Excellent point, and at this point in history, this land is legally the USA (Estados Unidos), a nation of laws and there is a large group of people who blatantly ignore our laws and enter the country illegally.  For the most part, they appear to have a great work ethic and seem to be good people, and I sympathize with them, but what gives them the right to thumb their nose at the law.  Its a slap in the face to the law abiding and all those folks that enter the country properly.  If the government really doesn't care if they come across un-vetted, they why not just relax the immigration rules and waive them on thru rather than have them risk their lives in the desert.

I don't think anything will be done about it until a bunch of terrorist come across and blow something up, or as I've said before, the illegals start voting predominantly republican.

-RP

[Romeo]

Willow, can I ask you, why do you think the so called illegal europeans were able to take this land from the folks that had previously inhabited it?

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I really dont believe it is the immigration by itself

I believe,  that it is the
"entitlements" that drive and go hand in hand with the decay of the USA

free meals, rent vouchers, medical, phone school drive with no insurance while drunk
commit drug and gun crimes with no fear  

we teach people who do NOT BOTHER to learn the language of this country
that they have a RIGHT To all these free handouts

That worker in the fields can have a green card if he or she wants to work

when the field is done the bus goes back to Mexico with an armed guard if necessary

one of my grandparents came here in 1906 escaping a pogram (Cossacks burned the entire village) with his sister and no possessions he was sponsored here by his father who came 5 yrs before  He was never rich in fact he was always damn poor but he learned the language and both his kids put themselves thru college while working
and he always tried to help those with less than himself

That is the kind of example kids today need to emulate, keep working keep tryin to better yourself

Well said.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I personally think we have enough people now. I know and respect that all of us came from somewhere else, even native American's if you go back far enough. But, now we have enough people. We don't have an energy problem, we have a population problem.

I think we should base immigration numbers on our population. If it starts to drop then we allow enough people in to keep our population where it is now. And, we need to come as close as possible to stopping all illegal immigration.

That being said, I don't think it would be right to deport kids who have only known the USA. And, that means we are stuck with their parents too. But we need to make letting them stay a one time thing, never can it happen again. I'd be all about deporting the POS politicians who got us into this though.

Concerning drugs, I think you've got it backwards. The more illegal they are, the more the cartels make from them. I think the cartels support US politicians who help keep the drug war going because it helps their profits. And you can bet, they are putting money into fighting the legalization of pot. Loosing a boat or plane every once in a while is nothing compared to their huge profits.

Making domestically grown pot legal and affordable and completely stopping imported pot would sink the cartels in a year. And, probably help with the meth problem which is BAD here in rural America. And, that's why it won't happen. The drug cartels are one of the largest businesses in the world and the most violent. They have too much influence here for that to happen.

[hubcapsc]

Willow, can I ask you, why do you think the so called illegal europeans were able to take this land from the folks that had previously inhabited it?

Technology. And wicked germs...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Depopulation_from_disease

-Mike

[Hooter]

Just a random thought.  The folks who most bitch about illegal immigration are the descendents of either illegal immigrants or those sponsored by the government formed by the illegal European immigrants.  The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore.

Political boundaries are synthetically drawn by governmental powers who have demonstrated their ability either singly or in concert with their allies to forcefully hold territory.

So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?

They are mostly here because we need them.  I do think we as a people need to address the issue and put our efforts into the struggle to prolong the few years during which our culture is allowed to dominate this plot of ground.  It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have.  

My great great great grandfather was Pe Sa Te Cubbee.  Who was yours?      

   My great great grandfather was Ute, American Indian.   

[Clark]

Just a random thought.  The folks who most bitch about illegal immigration are the descendents of either illegal immigrants or those sponsored by the government formed by the illegal European immigrants.  The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore.

Political boundaries are synthetically drawn by governmental powers who have demonstrated their ability either singly or in concert with their allies to forcefully hold territory.

So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?

They are mostly here because we need them.  I do think we as a people need to address the issue and put our efforts into the struggle to prolong the few years during which our culture is allowed to dominate this plot of ground.  It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have.  

My great great great grandfather was Pe Sa Te Cubbee.  Who was yours?      

"The ancestors of the "illegal aliens" were on this continent long before our forefathers elbowed their way ashore." - Yes, but they too were illegal aliens from asia.  Its just a matter of how far back you want to go.  The native americans whose land was seized by the evil europeans were not likely the original owners/occupiers of that land, they most likely seized it from other tribes, who most likely acquired it the same way.

"So for those of us most loudly insisting the Aztecs and Toltecs moving north learn English, will we readily and willing learn the Latin tongue and conduct our business in such when where we live becomes a northern province of Mexico?"  Lots of irony here since they don't speak Aztec or Toltec, but Spanish, another European language.

"They are mostly here because we need them."  I don't know if its that or that we just don't have the will to keep them out.

"It is, after all, only a momentary blip on the backdrop of history, but it is what we have."  Excellent point, and at this point in history, this land is legally the USA (Estados Unidos), a nation of laws and there is a large group of people who blatantly ignore our laws and enter the country illegally.  For the most part, they appear to have a great work ethic and seem to be good people, and I sympathize with them, but what gives them the right to thumb their nose at the law.  Its a slap in the face to the law abiding and all those folks that enter the country properly.  If the government really doesn't care if they come across un-vetted, they why not just relax the immigration rules and waive them on thru rather than have them risk their lives in the desert.

I don't think anything will be done about it until a bunch of terrorist come across and blow something up, or as I've said before, the illegals start voting predominantly republican.

-RP

WHAT HE SAID

[Willow]

What Mike said, and with the force of Manifest Destiny.

Yeah, RP, I loaded it up.  I just didn't think many would dig enough for the irony.  I forgot about you.

Tom, congratulations on the original thought.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to do something about the thugs and deadbeats whether they be home grown or imported.  I'm not really certain the immigration laws are anything more than a fancy shell game.  I think a good deal of the concern over the invasion from the south is warranted and especially in Arizona and South Texas.  California is already gone.  I just think we should view it realistically.

We are indeed, at least today, a nation of laws.  The nation is the people.  The land is what the people occupy.  The people (the nation) can hold the land as long as they have the power to do so.  What we are involved in today is a struggle questioning how long the people who occupy the land will continue to have the power to do so.

One day in the future, if time goes on, it's likely this land we call the United States of America will be either an extension of Latin America or muslim.  My father's generation was too strong to let that happen.  I hope mine is strong enough.  I question whether my children's generation will be able to repeat.

Our forefathers stole it from a people who were not strong enough to resist them.  Someday it will be stolen from our children's children because they will not be strong enough to resist.

Just rambling a bit and trying to shine a light from a different direction.  I'm not sure how much of which side I believe anyway.  I am, after all, a mixed breed.        

[Clark]

THANKS Willis

[Romeo]

Thanks for the reply Willow, pretty much how I look at it myself. The idea that we are a nation of laws is only relevant if the people of that nation has the will to enforce said laws. When the will is missing, either because of laziness or a shift in values or a lack of education or the funds to enforce them, the laws mean nothing.

[doubletee]

"But we need to make letting them stay a one time thing, never can it happen again."

"They" said that once before when when Reagan signed a psuedo amnesty law and let a bunch of illegals stay permanently. I am not in favor of repeating that mistake.

[MP]

I have a solution for those "jobs Americans won't take".  STOP ALL kinds of welfare and support.

The reason they will not take them, is because they can make a living sitting on their a***s.

I tell you, hunger is a great motivator.

As I get older, I believe more and more in "let them starve".

Now, I am NOT talking about the truly needy.  You know who they are. I believe in, and do, support them all the time.

I am talking about anyone who CAN work, but does not.  I hear "there are no jobs", yet we have to have illegals do all these jobs??

I say, no benefits, go take that job pouring that concrete. Hoe vegetables, etc.

I have, and still do, move cow manure, clean chicken coops, clean out hog pens, myself, manually, as hoser says.  I pull calves, with my bare hands, from cows having birthing problems.  I will leave out where my hands end up inside!

We can solve both problems, non workers, and illegals, with one action.  Stop welfare for able bodied people who won't work.  Let them starve.

IF they take the manual job, and are doing their best and working hard, NOW I am willing to talk about helping them a little more.  But, if you are not willing to "help yourself", why should I be required to help you?

MP

[da prez]

 Look up the immigration and naturalization test ( or act ) and take the test and see if you can pass it.  I took the test online and did a print out and took it to a buisness exchange meeting and caused a real issue anong them.
  I filed for my SSI Disability and was stunned when the primary instructions are in spanish. Then they asked me to choose a language.
  Also , look up the immigration laws of Mexico. I have a copy somewhere. It is written for them .
  America should have and enforce the policy they use.

                                                                       da prez

[alph]

I have a solution for those "jobs Americans won't take".  STOP ALL kinds of welfare and support.

The reason they will not take them, is because they can make a living sitting on their a***s.

I tell you, hunger is a great motivator.

As I get older, I believe more and more in "let them starve".



MP

Yep, what he said!!!!

I wrote a reply the other day, but apparently I didn't post it!!  Anyway, I agree with hooters reply and many others, I have to confess, I originally wrote about the thought of our politicians taking hush money from drug dealers as being the reason why they don't do anything about our boarders. But it turned into something else. 

in my reply the other day i also mentioned that many construction workers (like my father) only hire their own kind, meaning when my father did construction, they only hired Italians, and since the Mexicans are the main construction workers now a days, you MUST speak Spanish to work for their crew.  it's not that "Americans" won't do that kind of work, it's that American's know it's hard work, and that the construction companies know that if they hire a person that knows it's hard work they'll want an actual living wage!!  My father made good money 'cause he knew what others were getting paid, and he demanded more, and he got it!!  Another thing is many illegal workers are taken advantage of.  if they get hurt on the job, they risk being deported instead of getting workman's comp!!

[MP]

Look up the immigration and naturalization test ( or act ) and take the test and see if you can pass it.  I took the test online and did a print out and took it to a buisness exchange meeting and caused a real issue anong them.
 I filed for my SSI Disability and was stunned when the primary instructions are in spanish. Then they asked me to choose a language.
 Also , look up the immigration laws of Mexico. I have a copy somewhere. It is written for them .
 America should have and enforce the policy they use.

                                                                      da prez

Exactly!

Mexico bitches about our laws.

I say, let's copy Mexico's laws, and use them to the letter.  Seriously.

They have some of the toughest laws in the world.  And, they bitch and says ours are too tough!

Of course, Mexico's # 1 export is its people, and its number one source of money is that which they send back from the US.

MP

[Hooter]

I have a solution for those "jobs Americans won't take".  STOP ALL kinds of welfare and support.

The reason they will not take them, is because they can make a living sitting on their a***s.

I tell you, hunger is a great motivator.

As I get older, I believe more and more in "let them starve".

Now, I am NOT talking about the truly needy.  You know who they are. I believe in, and do, support them all the time.

I am talking about anyone who CAN work, but does not.  I hear "there are no jobs", yet we have to have illegals do all these jobs??

I say, no benefits, go take that job pouring that concrete. Hoe vegetables, etc.

I have, and still do, move cow manure, clean chicken coops, clean out hog pens, myself, manually, as hoser says.  I pull calves, with my bare hands, from cows having birthing problems.  I will leave out where my hands end up inside!

We can solve both problems, non workers, and illegals, with one action.  Stop welfare for able bodied people who won't work.  Let them starve.

IF they take the manual job, and are doing their best and working hard, NOW I am willing to talk about helping them a little more.  But, if you are not willing to "help yourself", why should I be required to help you?

MP

And Drug test those going into and on welfare. Test dirty, so long.

[Jess from VA]

Stop welfare for able bodied people who won't work.  Let them starve.



Absolutely; I'm with you.   

Either that, or require 8 X 5 of hard work that needs done to get the benefits. 

One way or the other.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Stop welfare for able bodied people who won't work.  Let them starve.



Absolutely; I'm with you.   

Either that, or require 8 X 5 of hard work that needs done to get the benefits. 

One way or the other.

Absolutely.