Desmogging using the 9/16 freeze plugs help

[Brian]

Hey guys,

I need guidance from those that have used this size plug. Is there a secret to getting these in? Maybe I am afraid of cracking the head and not really hitting all that hard?

Thanks,

[fudgie]

I set mine in the hole and use a wide puch and tap them in. Goes in easy.

[Skinhead]

I used a deep 1/4" drive socket that fits LOOSELY into the plug.  Do not use one that is tight as the plug diameter decreases slightly when you drive it in. 

[larryh0841]

I believe the correct plugs are 14mm diameter.  The 9/16" dia plugs are too big and have to be resized to assure that you don't crack the block casting when you drive them in.  14mm is .551 inches while 9/16" equals .562 inches.  I prefer about .003 press fit when installing the plugs.  I have resized the 9/16" plugs two different ways.  Spin grinding them down on a bench grinder or swaging them down in diameter by pressing them though a die.  It is a lot easier to just get some 14mm plugs to start with, but both will work.  You are right to be concerned about pounding the 9/16" plugs into the holes as they are.
                                                                   Larry

[BradValk48237]

Ditto on the socket approch...... I used 14 MM also...... tight fit.

Brad

[Attic Rat]

To be correct it is 14.4 MM

[Thunderbolt]

I'll try to find some 14.4mm on the next one.  I have been using the 9/16 on the last half dozen bikes.  I guess I was just lucky that the 9/16 did not damage anything.  I use a 1/4 extension and a small socket as mentioned to bottom them out.  Be sure you use one that the freeze plug will not trap when the top folds over.  If you do you will be leaving the socket in there forever.    I use the tube of two part epoxy on top of the freeze plug.  The kind that you buy in a plastic tube and it is gray in color and the center is black, and you cut off the amount you need and then you knead it until it turns the same color all the way through.  Fill the hole the rest of the way.

[YoungPUP]

Found my 14.4mm ones at NAPA.

[Brian]

NAPA here had the 9/16, 14.4mm had to be ordered and shipped in. I was thinking about removing some of the material off these as larryh mentioned. I agree the 9/16 is a little too large. I have the carbs out replacing all the O-rings so I thought I would do this as well.

Thunderbolt, I assume you epoxy filler has stayed in place? I was wondering about this coming out over time constantly being heated and cooled.

I appreciate the responses. Thanks,

[Thunderbolt]

To my knowlege all have stayed in.  Once mixed and installed, it becomes rock hard.

[Valkpilot]

If the freeze plugs are 14.4 mm then a 9/16 plug should be fine with no danger of damage.

    14.4 mm = 0.5669 inches
9/16 inches = 0.5625 inches

9/16 is 0.0044 inches smaller than 14.4 mm

However, if the freeze plugs are 14 (14.0) mm as originally stated, then there could be an issue.

          14.0 = 0.5512 inches
9/16 inches = 0.5625 inches

9/16 inches is 0.0113 inches greater than 14.0 mm

[Brian]

If the freeze plugs are 14.4 mm then a 9/16 plug should be fine with no danger of damage.

    14.4 mm = 0.5669 inches
9/16 inches = 0.5625 inches

9/16 is 0.0044 inches smaller than 14.4 mm

However, if the freeze plugs are 14 (14.0) mm as originally stated, then there could be an issue.

          14.0 = 0.5512 inches
9/16 inches = 0.5625 inches

9/16 inches is 0.0113 inches greater than 14.0 mm

I measured the hole before picking up the freeze plugs. I believe the port measured right at .551 on the dial caliper. That's why I went with the 9/16. I can't believe the exhaust pressure is all that high to worry about these fitting super tight. The recirc pipe insert measures .550, true is has an 0-ring. All NAPA showed was 14.4mm.

Thanks Valkpilot.

[Denny47]

Seems that it would have been much easier to have ordered the Shiny de-smog kit from redeye. Only takes three (3) days from the time of order and works like a charm.

[BradValk48237]

They do need to be tight.... First time I did mine, I only tapped them in flush...... soon as I fired it up, about 30 seconds later there was a "pop" and a funny noise..... one of the plugs had popped out and shot across the room...

I tapped them all down firm with the socket after that.

Brad

[mirion]

I used a little lock-tite and after pressing them in a little below flush I also prick punched three times around the opening which causes a little burr at the mouth of the hole and offers extra insurance that the plugs won't ever come out. Any cosmetic concerns are covered by the Kury Spark Plug Valance and Trani Covers but it is really hard to notice it anyway. (I used 9/16 plugs with no problems)

In my opinion the cleanest and cheapest method for a desmog is using the Redeye Vaccuum caps and reusing the two little pipe flanges after cutting them off and filling them with JB Weld. I felt that there was never a reason to go back for me and did both my Valks that way.

Here is what I mostly followed by Normand/Quexpress:
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/desmog.htm

[Brian]

Seems that it would have been much easier to have ordered the Shiny de-smog kit from redeye. Only takes three (3) days from the time of order and works like a charm.

It is a money thing after purchasing everything needed to rebuild the carbs, replace all the water hoses, pipe seals and thermostat.

[YoungPUP]

If you haven't gotten to the point of removing the tubes by the exhaust headers yet a set of ball end allen wrenches will let you pull them with out puilling the pipes.

[Brian]

If you haven't gotten to the point of removing the tubes by the exhaust headers yet a set of ball end allen wrenches will let you pull them with out puilling the pipes.

Thanks for the tip.

[BradValk48237]

I went the "cheap" route when I did my Desmog...

14mm freeze plugs

Vacuum caps from O'Riely Auto

Reused the ends of the tube on the bottom of the heads for the seal. Removed them, cut the end flush and filled with JB weld.. I did spring for new gaskets...

All told maybe $15 in stuff (some if it I had on hand)..the gaskets were the biggest expense and I probably could've reused the old ones......

I also used a Dremel tool to cut the chrome tubes.. was easier than trying to use some dykes to sever them.

Brad

[Brian]

I measured the diameter of the new 9/16 freeze plugs to find they are .577 not .562. They are even stamped 9/16. I spun one on the grinder taking the side wall down to almost .562 and tapped it in the port near #5 to keep and eye on it. I did dimpled the lip of the plug into the head in a few places then sealed the lip with JB Weld. Actually this may have been a little overkill seeing the grinder left the sides of the freeze plug rough. I only did this one port to see how it works before removing the rest of the tubes and grinding the other plugs. I did place JB Weld in the ends of the 5 tubes left in place.

The shiny kit may have been easier, but I like a challenge and saving a few bucks is good too.

I suppose I can't take anything for granted anymore and passing this info on so others may check their plugs before wrapping them with a hammer and possibly damaging a head.

[Crazyhorse]

Has anyone damaged a head by using 9/16 freeze plugs? I have used them several times and recommending them to others. Just wanting to know.

[Skinhead]

I've not heard of any.  I've done 4 bikes with out an issue.  The plugs are actually tapered (larger at the open end, which is weaker by design) when driven into a hole, the open ends compress to seal the hole, that is why you must use a smaller diameter punch when seating the plug.

[Ricky-D]

There was one fellow that broke part of the motor casting away.

It was caused by driving the plug in.

I don't remember the particulars.

***

[mirion]

The plug has to collapse as it goes in and it is soft enough to do that. Do not make the mistake that we are continually warned about, you must use a socket or punch to push it in that is smaller than the ID  of the soft plug after it collapses or you could crack the casting as it goes in or as you try to get your socket back out when it is pinched.

[Brian]

I measured the diameter of the new 9/16 freeze plugs to find they are .577 not .562. They are even stamped 9/16. I spun one on the grinder taking the side wall down to almost .562 and tapped it in the port near #5 to keep and eye on it. I did dimpled the lip of the plug into the head in a few places then sealed the lip with JB Weld. Actually this may have been a little overkill seeing the grinder left the sides of the freeze plug rough. I only did this one port to see how it works before removing the rest of the tubes and grinding the other plugs. I did place JB Weld in the ends of the 5 tubes left in place.

The shiny kit may have been easier, but I like a challenge and saving a few bucks is good too.

I suppose I can't take anything for granted anymore and passing this info on so others may check their plugs before wrapping them with a hammer and possibly damaging a head.

[denym]

Can someone explaine what desmogging will really do for me.  If I go ahead and do this is there any reason I can't just seal the lines near the reed valves.  I happen to like the mechanical complication look of the chrome lines.

[Skinhead]

It will not do a damn thing other than eliminate several potential sites for vacuum leaks to occur.  No performance increases , unless of course one of those sites was actually leaking.

[Brian]

Can someone explaine what desmogging will really do for me.  If I go ahead and do this is there any reason I can't just seal the lines near the reed valves.  I happen to like the mechanical complication look of the chrome lines.

I left the other tubes in place for now. I cleaned the insides of the of tubes and then sealed them with JB Weld. Let the stuff cure over night before starting. I decided to plug this port first as the tube will easily move back and forth without being connected to the reed valves. You may want to get creative to place something under the keeper that uses the intake bolt. I would not epoxy the tube in the head. Maybe a slightly larger o-ring would make it fit tight. The bike is running just fine and I don't hear the hear the strange noises anymore from the smog crap. I do plan to remove the other tubes at some point. The weather is getting better, so this item on my winter maintenance list was cut.