Report (drive splines)

[Chrisj CMA]

One of the bikes I work on regularly just set a record (for me anyways)  I tell the guys I help with their bikes that I don't usually go past 10K before re greasing the drive splines.  This time my friend tried going two tires.  He had 18K on the first tire and now he has 9K on the next tire. 

Well, to make a long story shorter, he just came back from a long trip, so I talked him into bringing his bike over for a greasing.  It has been 27K since the last spline lube.

Wasn't sure what to expect.  I was shocked!  It looked spanky fresh inside the final drive and also the pinion cup had much grease on the splines (maybe a light film of final drive oil over the grease).

Honestly we could have just buttoned it back up and I would have felt good about it, but we did clean all the splines and re grease them.  We also put new dampeners in and changed the final drive oil.

Another successful day of wrenching, nothing broke and no one had to die or even get hurt.

[Rio Wil]

OK.....so what are the details on the lube and quantity used???

[Chrisj CMA]

OK.....so what are the details on the lube and quantity used???

its all in the slide show I have posted in Shoptalk

[hubcapsc]

OK.....so what are the details on the lube and quantity used???

its all in the slide show I have posted in Shoptalk

It probably looks different with microsoft office than it does with libreoffice 

Jeff posted this picture the other day...



That looks similar to how much we put on Stanley's Sunday and how much I put on mine
yesterday - which is way more than I've been using.

I use moly grease and Jeff uses moly paste, but I arrived at the amount I'm using
by finally weighing the amount specified in the manual instead of guessing. It will be
a while before I have confirmation that what I'm doing now works, Jeff already knows
that what he's doing works...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

Is the drive shaft just slip-fit into the pinion cup (and held together with complete assembly), or does something hold it in there (other than rust/gunk)?

[tank_post142]

the snap ring around the splines near the end, drops into a groove cut in the inside of pinion cup. when you pull the unit out it comes as an assembly. I lay a thick blanket on the grass in my side yard and grab the driveshaft with the final drive hanging and give it a couple of hard shakes to separate the shaft from the drive.

[Chrisj CMA]

this is how the final drive and flange look when I do it

Final drive


Flange

[pancho]

the snap ring around the splines near the end, drops into a groove cut in the inside of pinion cup. when you pull the unit out it comes as an assembly. I lay a thick blanket on the grass in my side yard and grab the driveshaft with the final drive hanging and give it a couple of hard shakes to separate the shaft from the drive.

That will do it, but it really does not take that much... if you jerk it smartly while turning it will come loose.

[pancho]

OK.....so what are the details on the lube and quantity used???

Hey Rio,,,, wondering how the amount of lubrication in that picture that Mike posted of Jeffs PC joint compares to what you used last time???   I'm hoping the mystery of these pinion cup/drive line, dry up failures can just go away to never resurface for all of us.

[Rio Wil]

The amount of lube on the final drive splines is about the same, pretty well packed. The drive flange was liberally coated and I inserted the flange into the final drive with the wheel off the bike so I could easily see if any squeezed out and could be wiped off.  There was so much lube the orings sealed and would not allow the flange to fully seat, removed and wiped grease off until enough was removed to allow the flange to seat........

On the drive shaft, there was probably twice the lube as seen in the picture, I hope the picture was for instructional purposes because it appears there is no lube in the pinion cup.....I would prefer that both sets of splines were lubed before mating them.

[Chrisj CMA]

The amount of lube on the final drive splines is about the same, pretty well packed. The drive flange was liberally coated and I inserted the flange into the final drive with the wheel off the bike so I could easily see if any squeezed out and could be wiped off.  There was so much lube the orings sealed and would not allow the flange to fully seat, removed and wiped grease off until enough was removed to allow the flange to seat........

On the drive shaft, there was probably twice the lube as seen in the picture, I hope the picture was for instructional purposes because it appears there is no lube in the pinion cup.....I would prefer that both sets of splines were lubed before mating them.

Nope, That is enough lube for the whole cup.  That was the drive shaft actually going into the pinion cup during actual installation.  has worked fine for 11 years and on 5 or 6 bikes for many tire changes.  Never had one with a problem yet.

[flcjr]

its all in the slide show I have posted in Shoptalk
[/quote]

So I have looked in shop talk but can't find it anywhere??  I admit I am not the best with a pc.

[Rio Wil]

[

Nope, That is enough lube for the whole cup.  That was the drive shaft actually going into the pinion cup during actual installation.  has worked fine for 11 years and on 5 or 6 bikes for many tire changes.  Never had one with a problem yet.
[/quote]

This is indeed perplexing......do any of these bikes have 50-75 thousand miles and gone through 4-5  lube cycles or is it 5-6 bikes with 1-2 lube cycles (15-30K miles) and no failures.....

The reason for the question is:  I will go for 45-60K miles with no issues, then on the 4th lube cycle (at 60K miles) there will be a lube issue and damaged splines..

I put 30K miles + per year on this bike and have to do the lube  at least twice a year......I often wonder if riding style has any effect, aggressive, high speed freeway, bar hopping.......who knows....

[hubcapsc]

The reason for the question is:  I will go for 45-60K miles with no issues, then on the 4th lube cycle (at 60K miles) there will be a lube issue and damaged splines..

I think consistent use of a method that works is the key. My attempts range from awesome to "death valley".
Trying to do it the same way as last time, and insuring that you do it the same way as
last time are perhaps two different things for some of us (me).

-Mike

[pancho]

[

Nope, That is enough lube for the whole cup.  That was the drive shaft actually going into the pinion cup during actual installation.  has worked fine for 11 years and on 5 or 6 bikes for many tire changes.  Never had one with a problem yet.

This is indeed perplexing......do any of these bikes have 50-75 thousand miles and gone through 4-5  lube cycles or is it 5-6 bikes with 1-2 lube cycles (15-30K miles) and no failures.....

The reason for the question is:  I will go for 45-60K miles with no issues, then on the 4th lube cycle (at 60K miles) there will be a lube issue and damaged splines..

I put 30K miles + per year on this bike and have to do the lube  at least twice a year......I often wonder if riding style has any effect, aggressive, high speed freeway, bar hopping.......who knows....


[/quote]


Well, how about the final drive oil level,, do you think that has remained a constant over your last four maintenance periods Rio??  there has to be an answer here somewhere.

[Rio Wil]

This is not rocket science......you clean the old crap off, put the new crap on, change the orings, bolt it back together and go.......

[pancho]

I keep thinking of someones post/idea of the final drive oil entering the cup (from being overfull?)and washing the grease out, then as the level falls(?? leak??, pushed out by heat expansion??) and oil no longer entering PC.... no lubrication/failure.

[hubcapsc]

This is not rocket science......you clean the old crap off, put the new crap on, change the orings, bolt it back together and go.......

I always do it that way.



-Mike

[Rio Wil]

This is not rocket science......you clean the old crap off, put the new crap on, change the orings, bolt it back together and go.......

I always do it that way.



-Mike

Damn.....that joint looks as bad as mine did.....

[Rio Wil]

The thing that irks me is, I don't have any problem with the final drive/drive flange splines.  I ruined a set early on when going over 20K miles and didn't know any better.  But its the p/c and drive shaft that's a crap shoot for me....3 times good...then bad the next....  The final drive doesn't leak any oil, I put in 5-6oz and drain out 5-6 each lube interval........

[Jess from VA]

This is not rocket science......you clean the old crap off, put the new crap on, change the orings, bolt it back together and go.......

I always do it that way.



-Mike

That looks looks you are lubing with that famous southern red clay.  Perfect color match.   

[pancho]

Now there is an idea..... what kind of grease did you guys use last time???  THere are clay based  greases that are not compatable with lithium based grease.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility

[Chrisj CMA]

its all in the slide show I have posted in Shoptalk

So I have looked in shop talk but can't find it anywhere??  I admit I am not the best with a pc.
[/quote]

OK, shop talk page.  left side.  tech tips.  scroll down to chrisj rear end svc.  Hope that helps

[Chrisj CMA]

[

Nope, That is enough lube for the whole cup.  That was the drive shaft actually going into the pinion cup during actual installation.  has worked fine for 11 years and on 5 or 6 bikes for many tire changes.  Never had one with a problem yet.

This is indeed perplexing......do any of these bikes have 50-75 thousand miles and gone through 4-5  lube cycles or is it 5-6 bikes with 1-2 lube cycles (15-30K miles) and no failures.....

The reason for the question is:  I will go for 45-60K miles with no issues, then on the 4th lube cycle (at 60K miles) there will be a lube issue and damaged splines..

I put 30K miles + per year on this bike and have to do the lube  at least twice a year......I often wonder if riding style has any effect, aggressive, high speed freeway, bar hopping.......who knows....


[/quote]

To answer the Question.....My bike has been worked on by me for 130,000 miles and seven tire changes.  I have done the PC exactly like the picture posted each time and no worries.

The most I did on another persons bike is, we are on the third tire change.  However, he just went almost two complete tires (27K miles) without re lubing the PC.

All the other bikes are on two tire changes and none have any troubles at all.

[flcjr]

its all in the slide show I have posted in Shoptalk

So I have looked in shop talk but can't find it anywhere??  I admit I am not the best with a pc.

OK, shop talk page.  left side.  tech tips.  scroll down to chrisj rear end svc.  Hope that helps
[/quote]
Nice work