a bad idea is a bad idea no matter which side offers it...

[musclehead]

I saw on FOX NEWS (yeah they thought it was a bad idea too) there is a bill sponsered by repubs in Wisconsin to give the state government the ability to take a 'look' at unemployed folks bank accounts. ostensibly to detect if there is fraud happening.

talk about your governmental over reach! 

I haven't found a link yet still looking......

[Patrick]

It has seemed to me that 'they' can do that anytime 'they' wish. That shouldn't be, but, if there is good reason to believe that someone is cheating then I don't have a problem with that.

[wdvalk]

Amazes me how many people are ok with their freedom and rights being taken away.They do not just take it away from cheaters,its everybody.

[Jess from VA]

Or just make everyone who wants benefits waive certain rights as a precondition to get those benefits (take it or leave it).  There is enough fraud in all Fed and State benefits plans to warrant it.  All of these programs have a crapload of govt employees doing everything possible to help people sign up for and give away free money.... but enforcement against rampant fraud is abysmal, making fraud that much more palatable and easy.  

Usually, if the state wants your bank records, they need a warrant based upon probably cause.  I prosecuted several guys on active duty for bad checks and fraud against military travel pay office (more than a few bucks); just walked into the military credit unions in uniform and asked for them (told them why).  They gave them to me with no warrant, they should not have, but less work for me.  As you might imagine, it was useful evidence.

[Romeo]

I may be mistaken, but I think its called due process. Problem is people have finally figured out enforcement cant possibly keep up with the number of morally corrupt among us. I used to ask people, what could the police do if we all just decided to ignore the speed limits. We have done more to make this country a "nation of laws" than any nation before us, but, it still comes down to the values of the people. Someone said, not sure who, if you abuse your rights, you will surely lose them.

[cookiedough]

I don't believe anybody can or should I say has a right to find out what is going in on my bank accounts.   What good would that do to collecting unemployment benefits by looking into our checking/savings accounts?    You have to supply your social security # and many other things to get unemployment benefits you'd think that would be good enough, how can you cheat?

[Jess from VA]

You are collecting unemployment (for how many years now?), but you have a bank statement showing routine large deposits other than your benefits, reflecting off-the-books employment income of some type.  

Many benefits are means tested, either by regular income of any type, or net worth.  Like VA pension benefits.

If you are truly a pauper in need of basic subsistence, what have you got to hide?  Again, I would make it a waiver of certain limited rights to obtain free money (only those things that will show fraud).

Fraud is rampant into the millions/billions and always increasing, because there is no enforcement. Should we just live with it?  I don't see the programs going away, ever.

[JimC]

I have not seen the bill (nor heard about it) but personally, I would have no problem if they were looking WITH PROBABLY CAUSE, AND A SEARCH WARRANT, just like any other fraud.

Jim

[Serk]

If you're living by the sweat of another person's brow, you should be prepared to give up some things.

I'll admit this is a sticky area, I don't like the idea of the government poking around in any body's business, but on the other hand, if you're making yourself a ward of the state, no matter how justified that might be, you can't expect the same protections as an independent adult has.

[BIG--T]

If you're living by the sweat of another person's brow, you should be prepared to give up some things.

I'll admit this is a sticky area, I don't like the idea of the government poking around in any body's business, but on the other hand, if you're making yourself a ward of the state, no matter how justified that might be, you can't expect the same protections as an independent adult has.

I agree but it is a slippery slope. I do believe all states should have mandatory drug testing, including alcohol and tobacco for all welfare and food stamp recipients. I also believe they need to regulate the food stamp program to the basic foods, like flour, rice, beans, veggies, fruit, etc. I don't know how many times I've seen carts full of expensive meats, fillet minion, best cuts of steaks,  pastries,etc. Then they pull out a wad of cash for alcohol and cigs!!

[Rams]

Last night, I drove the spousal unit to Walmart, don't like going there but, a man's got to do those kind of things once in a while (whenever he can't figure out a good excuse).   Regardless, standing in line I watched the lady in front of us go through check out.   She paid for all her goodies with an EBT card.   I couldn't help but notice her wallet/purse thing was also full of green backs.   Now, I can't honestly say what the denominations were but, I did see several twenties.   She bought two full carts of stuff.  We didn't have a lot in our cart so it didn't take long for us to check out and we headed out the door.   Turns out, we had parked very near the same lady mentioned previously.   She was just finishing up putting the stuff from her second cart into her late model Ford Expedition.   We got into our 1988 Pontiac.   No excuses for our car, it's one I treasure.   As we were leaving, I noticed she was still sitting there.  She was busy doing something on her Smart Phone.   Looked like a Droid Razor.   Very similar to the one I considered buying the last time I bought one a few months ago.   Passed on it cause I couldn't afford it.  

Draw your own conclusions.   I don't know the lady or her circumstances.   What I do know is, I can't afford to drive a Ford Expedition (loan re-payment, fuel or insurance) nor can I go out and buy a new Droid Razor Maxx phone.   But then, I pay all my own bills.

[jimmytee]

Last night, I drove the spousal unit to Walmart, don't like going there but, a man's got to do those kind of things once in a while (whenever he can't figure out a good excuse).   Regardless, standing in line I watched the lady in front of us go through check out.   She paid for all her goodies with an EBT card.   I couldn't help but notice her wallet/purse thing was also full of green backs.   Now, I can't honestly say what the denominations were but, I did see several twenties.   She bought two full carts of stuff.  We didn't have a lot in our cart so it didn't take long for us to check out and we headed out the door.   Turns out, we had parked very near the same lady mentioned previously.   She was just finishing up putting the stuff from her second cart into her late model Ford Expedition.   We got into our 1988 Pontiac.   No excuses for our car, it's one I treasure.   As we were leaving, I noticed she was still sitting there.  She was busy doing something on her Smart Phone.   Looked like a Droid Razor.   Very similar to the one I considered buying the last time I bought one a few months ago.   Passed on it cause I couldn't afford it.   

Draw your own conclusions.   I don't know the lady or her circumstances.   What I do know is, I can't afford to drive a Ford Expedition (loan re-payment, fuel or insurance) nor can I go out and buy a new Droid Razor Maxx phone.   But then, I pay all my own bills.

Here here , we can only guess right, but that is not an uncommon sight. We've all heard or know of people getting over on the system. Even when there's no law being broke, I get so tired of seeing/hearing of the mentality "get me mine"

[Patrick]

Kinda getting back to my earlier post, I don't think that any additional law would be required. Any time any law enforcement investigator wants to check on someones banking activities I believe he /she has the right to do so. Even if they don't, when they ask they'll probably be granted anything they want.

[BIG--T]

Kinda getting back to my earlier post, I don't think that any additional law would be required. Any time any law enforcement investigator wants to check on someones banking activities I believe he /she has the right to do so. Even if they don't, when they ask they'll probably be granted anything they want.

I for one believe the guberment already has way too much power, we have NO privacy at all!

[Patrick]

I for one believe the guberment already has way too much power, we have NO privacy at all!
end quote

Yep, I certainly agree and I don't like it any more than the rest of us. But, it appears that there are those that don't believe it. 1984 is almost 30 years old.

[BIG--T]

I for one believe the guberment already has way too much power, we have NO privacy at all!
end quote

Yep, I certainly agree and I don't like it any more than the rest of us. But, it appears that there are those that don't believe it. 1984 is almost 30 years old.

What happened in 1984? I know the Patriot Act was passed in 2001. Anyway, living in this high tech world we have no privacy whatsoever. Smartphones/ cell phones, computers, late model

vehicles...just name it and people would be shocked and amazed of what Big Brother knows about us!!

[Patrick]

What happened in 1984? I know the Patriot Act was passed in 2001. Anyway, living in this high tech world we have no privacy whatsoever. Smartphones/ cell phones, computers, late model

vehicles...just name it and people would be shocked and amazed of what Big Brother knows about us!!
end quote


1984 ? George Orwell ?

[BIG--T]

What happened in 1984? I know the Patriot Act was passed in 2001. Anyway, living in this high tech world we have no privacy whatsoever. Smartphones/ cell phones, computers, late model

vehicles...just name it and people would be shocked and amazed of what Big Brother knows about us!!
end quote


1984 ? George Orwell ?

Oh Ok, Man ain't that da truth!!

[czuch]

chip,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,chip

[BIG--T]

chip,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,,,chip,,,,,,,,,chip

Yep, the chip, RFID has been around for over 10 years I think. Some presidents and vips have them now and of course animals

[Patrick]

Wasn't it Timothy McVeigh[sp] that claimed to be instructed what to do through a government planted 'chip' ?

[The Anvil]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

[musclehead]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

most of us have gotten through our thick skulls 

I admit I didn't think too much of the patriot act going through, I thought well they will use their powers only for good.

lets just say I'm paying much closer attention.

[Serk]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

I agree. First step we should take is shut down all these big government programs that we're talking about in the first place.

[BIG--T]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

Yeah and they're listening to everything you say and do!! 

[BIG--T]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

I agree. First step we should take is shut down all these big government programs that we're talking about in the first place.

That's right and the IRS is first to go!!

[BIG--T]

Big government is big government. Some of you guys just can't seem to get that through your thick skulls.

Hey Anvil, where ya been? I've missed arguing talking to ya! 

[Patrick]

I think we have gotten it through our thick skulls, and, just maybe thats why we complain about it.  Some of us try to do something about it, but, we have been out voted.

[The Anvil]

I think we have gotten it through our thick skulls, and, just maybe thats why we complain about it.  Some of us try to do something about it, but, we have been out voted.

Advocating for more big government is not "doing something about it".

T, I've been going out of my mind with work.

[Patrick]

I think I'm about as anti-establishment/government as one can be, but, a certain amount of government is needed.

[musclehead]

I think we have gotten it through our thick skulls, and, just maybe thats why we complain about it.  Some of us try to do something about it, but, we have been out voted.

Advocating for more big government is not "doing something about it".

T, I've been going out of my mind with work.

therein is your quandry my friend, you voted for obama who has expanded the federal government bigger, faster then any other pres. and he was still a better choice then the 'other guy'?  really?

[BIG--T]

I think we have gotten it through our thick skulls, and, just maybe thats why we complain about it.  Some of us try to do something about it, but, we have been out voted.

Advocating for more big government is not "doing something about it".

T, I've been going out of my mind with work.

I know what ya mean. I'm not on like I used to be and was shocked to see you!!    Don't go out of your mind - just try a little wind therapy on your cickle, it works wonders!!

[BIG--T]

I think we have gotten it through our thick skulls, and, just maybe thats why we complain about it.  Some of us try to do something about it, but, we have been out voted.

Advocating for more big government is not "doing something about it".

T, I've been going out of my mind with work.

therein is your quandry my friend, you voted for obama who has expanded the federal government bigger, faster then any other pres. and he was still a better choice then the 'other guy'?  really?

Ditto! Just like Toyota....you asked for it and you got it!!