Further on the left turner fatality

[solo1]

that i posted about 2 weeks ago or so.

I talked to the Police Chief.  He was there.  The rider was on a borrowed bike, his was getting repaired, he was wearing dark clothes and a helmet ( didn't make a difference).  The rider was dead.  His leg was torn off above the knee. No other visible marks on the chest or head.

He was riding east and the older lady turned left in front of him into Subway.  She didn't see him (So what else is new!). She was really upset and had a small cut on her face. She wasn't near as upset as the rider's family.  The Chief didn't say whether she was charged for failure. Probably still investigating.  Because of the legal question I didn't ask.

Once again, watch those left turners!  I read somewhere that a rider said,  "If you hit a left turner, it's your fault."  I wouldn't say that but, back in 1980 the Hurt Report found that 57% of car/motorcycle accidents are results of left turns/failure to yield to motorcycles.

I wear yellow but I don't trust colors to get the attention of cagers.  I weave the Vstrom for left turners but I don't trust that action either.   I DON'T flash my lights, the idiots might take that as a 'Come On"

They plain DON"T SEE US!   

As Old2Soon says, Ride Safe!


Solo1

[csj]

With my last bike (an '83 V65 Magna) I only had a single headlight, had people always trying
to cut me off, nearly hitting me, clearly because they could not understand that the small
headlight had a motorized vehicle behind it. Didn't matter much if it was day or night,
they could not see me.

I got this valkyrie about 8 yrs ago, it had, and still has a cobra light bar setup, and
that puts three lights up there for people to see. I have not had one incident since
getting this bike with the extra lights.

My girlfriend has a harley trike with only a single tiny headlight, and it has poor visibility
at night. We are looking for a decent lower cost light bar for her. Until we find one,
I ride out in front of her at night.

Sorry if this appears to be a hijack, but I think that a lot of extra light will help
much older folks see us. And no offence to older folks, I'm an old fart too.

[MarkT]

With my last bike (an '83 V65 Magna) I only had a single headlight, had people always trying
to cut me off, nearly hitting me, clearly because they could not understand that the small
headlight had a motorized vehicle behind it. Didn't matter much if it was day or night,
they could not see me.

I got this valkyrie about 8 yrs ago, it had, and still has a cobra light bar setup, and
that puts three lights up there for people to see. I have not had one incident since
getting this bike with the extra lights.

My girlfriend has a harley trike with only a single tiny headlight, and it has poor visibility
at night. We are looking for a decent lower cost light bar for her. Until we find one,
I ride out in front of her at night.

Sorry if this appears to be a hijack, but I think that a lot of extra light will help
much older folks see us. And no offence to older folks, I'm an old fart too.

+1   on the additional light.  

I have a 130/90 headlight powered via relays, with a hi-power modulator from Kisan.  2 55w small spots on the crashbars, selected on with ignition.  2 aircraft landing lights mounted on the fork in a triangle with the headlight, powered by relay selected to come on with hi beam.  When I see anyone planning to cross my path, the headlight sw goes to hi beam which starts the headlight modulating 130w (daytime) and powers up the A/C spots.  FIVE bright lights, headlight pulsing.  I've never had an incident with this setup.

I was hit by a left turner on my Ducati in 1970.  Just a single headlight.  "I never saw him, he came out of nowhere." in Wisconsin - the cheese blocks up the blood vessels to the brain.  Oh shut up, I grew up there - but cut down on the cheese.  Right of Way violations and emergency manuvers were a daily occurence there.  Not as much now, I've ridden there since then - but not with a skinny single light bike, so maybe that's invalid.

I added spots to the wife's Magna for the same reason.  Used the Valkyrie handlebar which was damaged from the deer incident, as the light bar.  Spot shells from JCWhitney, and a pair of hi-lo spots.  I wired them with a 3-relay circuit I designed, so she can select either hi, lo, or follow-the-headlight.  So if a filiment burns out, she can just select the other filiment and still have both spots until we can change out the bulb.  Works well.  She's never had a left-turner incident.

You can see 4 of the 5 lights in this shot, though the spots aren't on for the photo.

[solo1]

I agree.  I had two extra 55 watt driving lights on the windshield.  The regular Valkyrie headlight looks great but doesn't do much at night.

Triangle lighting is the best for getting attention. 

My Vstrom has two side by side intense lights but no triangle.  seems to work well.  I might add 'square' lighting.

The Shadow in the accident had only one headlight.

[Gryphon Rider]

For protection from left-turners, there are a few different strategies to take, in no particular order:
1. Like others have said, multiple lights on the front of the bike.  It is much easier to judge the approach speed of lights that are spaced apart than a single point of light.
2. As you approach a potential left-turner but are still a ways back, move from the right to the left of your lane, so that your bike is pointing straight at the turner, then straighten out before the zone where you may have to brake if the light turns yellow or red.  This makes the driver's sub-conscience yell "THREAT", and they pay attention to you.
3. This can be done in combination with #2. As you approach the danger zone, be sure to be as far right as is safe and practical, whether that be in the right tire track of your lane, or moving one lane to the right well before-hand.  This give more reaction time between the time the car starts to move, and the time it is in your path.
4. A few seconds before any intersection, cover your brakes, improving your reaction time.
5. As you approach an intersection, acknowledge the threats, but do not let your eyes focus on them.  Instead, scan for potential escape routes and let your peripheral vision and micro-glances track the threats.
6. If the car's tires are already pointed in the direction of it's turn, slow down (every bit helps) and use extreme caution, because it can be in your path that much faster.
7. NEVER speed through an intersection with a potential left-turner.
8. Practise your emergency braking off-street with a buddy or two.

[Jess from VA]

Good advice. 

When I am approaching an intersection or side street with the usual creeping ahead right turner (supposedly after a full stop), or a left turner I often pop my brights on (not a flash, just on) (I do not ride with brights since I run 80/100 off road bulbs in the interstate fairing as well as full time Motolights on the calipers). I also often aim the bike right at a creeping turner.

Another thing... when riding in a four lane with no traffic on my side, I am always in the right lane (where you are supposed to be).  But approaching any intersection or side street where I see folks waiting/creeping up to turn right ahead of me, I switch lanes to the left (and get all the way over in the left lane), so right turners do not have to wait for me to pass, or more often, just pull out in front of me anyway.  This one comes up for me all the time around here.

[Clark]

I feel this is WELL WORTH MENTIONING.. A BIGGG reason a car will turn left in front of a mc. is because mannny mcs. don't have SELF CANCELLING turn signals.. I cant ell you how many times I have seen a mc going straight down the road for a long period of time with a turn signal on and with no intention of turning.. if its the left turn signal. that can make for a deadly scenario.. gotta admit I too have been GUILTY of ridin w my signal on.. BE CAREFUL

[solo1]

Good advice on all .  I practice all of them. Cut your speed. cover the brake, look for an out.

The other day I was sitting in my Mazda waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. I was in the left turn lane in the middle of the intersection.  The light turned to red and as I started to turn left. a Harley rider, following closely the last opposing car,  ran the red with his feet on the highway pegs.   If I would've moved only two feet I would've hit him.  Idiots are not just in cars. 

This happened just one block from the fatal left turner.

[saddlesore]

Another left turn scenario is when there is a car merging from the right but there is a semi in "their" lane.
Truckers will try to move over for them so I hang back to make sure things are going to clear before I pass the truck.
Witch leads to that car, in a hurry to get past the semi, cuts sharp across both lanes without looking for any other traffic.
It's a dangerous world out there! 

[ricoman]

I feel this is WELL WORTH MENTIONING.. A BIGGG reason a car will turn left in front of a mc. is because mannny mcs. don't have SELF CANCELLING turn signals.. I cant ell you how many times I have seen a mc going straight down the road for a long period of time with a turn signal on and with no intention of turning.. if its the left turn signal. that can make for a deadly scenario.. gotta admit I too have been GUILTY of ridin w my signal on.. BE CAREFUL

I think this is a very serious problem.
A good habit is to hit the cancel button every so often.
I see bikes go for miles in intown traffic with the blinker on and have seen guys get upset when cars start to pull out and they have the blinker on.
I wonder how many have been hit for that reason?

[Rocketman]

3. This can be done in combination with #2. As you approach the danger zone, be sure to be as far right as is safe and practical, whether that be in the right tire track of your lane, or moving one lane to the right well before-hand.  This give more reaction time between the time the car starts to move, and the time it is in your path.

I'm not sure I agree with this one.  It depends upon traffic.  I agree that having more reaction time is good, but if by moving to the right (even within my own lane), I'm then blocked from view by a large truck in front of me, I will stay far to the left.  If you move to the right, you could easily be mistaken for a gap in traffic, making for an inviting target.
(Yes, I know you said as far right as practical, and probably had this in mind, but thought I would explicitly state this.)

Mark

[Gryphon Rider]

3. This can be done in combination with #2. As you approach the danger zone, be sure to be as far right as is safe and practical, whether that be in the right tire track of your lane, or moving one lane to the right well before-hand.  This give more reaction time between the time the car starts to move, and the time it is in your path.

I'm not sure I agree with this one.  It depends upon traffic.  I agree that having more reaction time is good, but if by moving to the right (even within my own lane), I'm then blocked from view by a large truck in front of me, I will stay far to the left.  If you move to the right, you could easily be mistaken for a gap in traffic, making for an inviting target.
(Yes, I know you said as far right as practical, and probably had this in mind, but thought I would explicitly state this.)

Mark

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule (or in this case, strategy), and the best strategy changes with the situation.

[Fritz The Cat]

People who can't see shouldn't be allowed to drive. nuff said.

[MarkT]

People who can't see shouldn't be allowed to drive. nuff said.

Yes BUT.  We're working with reality here.  Neither should people use phones but they do.  Neither should car companies aggravate the problem by ADDING DISTRACTING HARDWARE for the driver - but they do.  IMO it should be MUCH HARDER to get a license - and they should be revoked for distraction driving.  KILL A BIKER - GO TO JAIL - FOR TEN YEARS.

One big problem is drivers operating on autopilot.  I had a guy pulling out of a parking lot ahead to my right, and about to join my lane, move back and forth in his seat because I was blocking his view behind me.  And when he saw there was no traffic behind me - swivel his head and PULL OUT IMMEDIATELY IN FRONT OF ME.  I anticipated that - watched his head and his front wheel - and when it moved - GAVE HIM A BLAST ON THE FIRE TRUCK HORN.  He spun his head, slammed on the brakes, ands flashed a HORROR look at me.  I'm betting he had to change his panties.  GOOD.  He was operating on autopilot - and had no response for motorcycle coming  Clearly he saw me - he actually had to move to see behind me.

[Patrick]

I don't want to high-jack this thread, I was about to post this alone. Just a few minutes ago I damn near ran into a biker. I [truck] was approaching a ' Y ' in the road and wanted to bear left. There was an on-coming bike and I didn't see him when I should have. I was west-bound but not about to make excuses. The bike had the right-of-way and I didn't see him until it was almost too late, we both swerved right and were able to miss each other. It wasn't too close, but, close enough. STUFF  happens !

[..]

I feel this is WELL WORTH MENTIONING.. A BIGGG reason a car will turn left in front of a mc. is because mannny mcs. don't have SELF CANCELLING turn signals.. I cant ell you how many times I have seen a mc going straight down the road for a long period of time with a turn signal on and with no intention of turning.. if its the left turn signal. that can make for a deadly scenario.. gotta admit I too have been GUILTY of ridin w my signal on.. BE CAREFUL

Yes, yes, yes.

Even those with self cancelling indicators DO get stoopidly lazy and stop thinking about how long they stay on for.

[solo1]

None of you are hijacking my thread!!!

Any words of wisdom here to keep us safe and maybe let us all find new ways to keep out of trouble are well worth it!

I'm purely guilty of leaving the turn signals on.  I don't seem to to it with the Vstrom but I sure did with the Valkyrie.  Many time when my son was riding behind me, he would open and close his fist.  I did develop the good habit of looking in my rear view mirrors often.

People do not see us, that's the facts.  I was riding next to my neighbor on a four lane.  He had a bumper sticker that said "Be careful, motorcycles are everywhere" and proceeded to come over in my lane. I was ready for it.

As pointed out, even we, the riders, when in a cage, still can violate a motorcycle's right of way.

[fudgie]

Anything helps, more lights, hi vis clothing, loud pipes, etc. But nothing is fool proof. We all understand the risks but we ride anyway. Why? Cause we love it.
I read stuff all the time of ambulances/ fire app getting hit on the roads. Folks hit anything.

[JimmyG]

Good thread and good advice from all. Just to throw in some information I learned this past week. I just got back from El Salvador last night. A friend there just got a motorcycle, and we talked about safety and he told me that in El Salvador, you take a written test only and no drivers test or training for a car licence. He said he did take a training course at yamaha for his bike before he started riding. I sure hope they taught him some of this stuff.  The traffic there is outrageous, to say the least. Even though, we need to be careful every second here.  good information everyone, I picked up some good pointers. 

[Rams]

I'm purely guilty of leaving the turn signals on. 

People do not see us, that's the facts. 

As pointed out, even we, the riders, when in a cage, still can violate a motorcycle's right of way.

All true, I get upset with myself when I look down and realize that I've left my turn signal on.   Seems to occur more after left hand turns, not sure why that would be but, it does seem to happen more often.   Regardless, I've added lights to the front and rear of my Valkyrie and am looking to change out to a dual bulb headlamp.   I don't tend to speed (much) and always try to be a considerate rider.   I always ride in my lane closest to the traffic I am concerned about.   Doesn't matter if it's a four lane or a two lane, I want an escape route.   When I'm stopped at a traffic light, I almost always am close to and pointed toward the space between the lanes in front of me.   I've seen up close what happens when someone is so involved in their cell phone that they fai.  l to see the motorcycle in front of them or the vehicle in front of the motorcycle.   It was not pretty.   I don't ride side by side with anyone, one never knows when that turtle is gonna jump out in front of you or the guy beside you and your escape route (or his) is already occupied Had too many close calls and that doesn't count rodents, possums, dogs and cats that attempt suicide by motorcycle.    But, I ride because I love it and accept the risk that goes along with that choice.  But. I do try to minimize that risk when possible.

[solo1]

More good advice! thanks again.

Another hint. If I'm in heavy traffic and the car in front is stopping, I weave slightly to make my brake light stand out. When stopped, i'm in first gear and looking for an out if necessary.

At four way stops I motion everyone to go before me and clear the intersection before I go (well, try to, any way).  Better than having someone jump the gun on my left when I'm turning left.  That goes double for 'stop and creep" cagers.

[R J]

My son & I were at Daytona Bike Week several years ago.     It was like 8:30 to 9:30 in the evening and we were headed back to our Motel North of town out on the Ocean front.

We were setting at a red light, heard tires squeal behind us, dragging out and spinning.    Son twisted around, told him to set his ass still, saw this car coming hell bent for buckets, then saw his lights dip like he was trying to stop.    Just a few seconds from impact, I took off into a hole I had been watching.    Next thing I hear is boom bang crash and crunch.    I'm safely over on the side of the road across the intersection.       Police Cruiser came squalling up with just his lights and no siren.    He stopped jumped out, was running around the 5 cars involved and I heard him say where did that motorcycle go?    I figured he would be in the middle of it.      Honked my horn and we waved.  Did a U-turn and come back across the street.   Stopped at where the officer was and said I'm that bike.   He said I don't see any damage, I said no, I went out my escape hatch.     He asked if I would tell his partner my side of the accident as to what I saw & heard.

Did that and never heard another peep out of them, I know the driver did go to jail on a DUI.   Hi buddy went on a Public intoxication charge.

[cookiedough]

let's face it, some drivers shouldn't be allowed on the pavement ever to drive.  My neighbor is one of them.  He has got into 3 serious accidents in past 6-7 years all his fault not paying attention or being distracted by his cell phone or just being stupid is all.  I have driven with him in the passenger seat and refuse to go again ever with him or allow him to take my kids anywhere ever again.  The worst thing he does besides not paying attention of course, is going 75 mph then down to 50 mph all the while driving on a straight road no hills or anything cannot keep a constant speed - that really pissed me off.  He needs to use cruise control but then again, he would probably forget he had it on and slam into something going 60 mph.

Back on topic,  the best thing I do especially in traffic in town, is to drive slower and expect the unexpected and that has saved me several times from mostly minor accidents from cagers not paying attention especially in parking lots or in low speeds in town - THEY JUST DON'T SEE ME and I stop or swerve around them to avoid being hit.  I'm sure one of these days I'll get hit just hope it is not serious. 

I am worried VERY soon in next 6-7 months when my now 15 year old will get her learners permit.  She is easily distracted and if I ever catch her texting or using or even answering her phone while driving EVEN ONCE, the keys are pulled and cell phone taken away for months.  I can already here her whining and bitching about it now, wish me luck!

[Jess from VA]

I've discovered that I leave the turn signals on most often when I sit for awhile in a turn lane before getting to turn (and forget about them, looking around while waiting, a stream of consciousness thing).  Conversely, when I am riding thru a turn, I blip then on, then off after completing the turn, and rarely forget.

So now I am not using/leaving them on sitting in a turn lane (unless I am first in line) (after all, sitting in a turn lane, you are required to turn, it is not a surprise to anyone).  I look around and if I think someone needs to see me signal, I use my arm.  This is working for me, most of the time.

[Jess Tolbirt]

i leave my thumb on top of the switch until i start the turn and then turn it off when removing my thumb..

[BF]

let's face it, some drivers shouldn't be allowed on the pavement ever to drive.  

Saw a pretty young thang wearing a sleaveless top and shorts riding a scooter on the inside (fast) lane riding right through the middle of town right smack dab in the middle of the afternoon rush hour traffic on a very busy 6 laned highway.........riding with one hand with the other holding a cell phone to her head.    

The wife was with me and she saw it too.  If I would have had my cell phone camera at the ready, I'd have taken this scooter girls pic to show as proof.  

[MarkT]

let's face it, some drivers shouldn't be allowed on the pavement ever to drive.  

Saw a pretty young thang wearing a sleaveless top and shorts riding a scooter on the inside (fast) lane riding right through the middle of town right smack dab in the middle of the afternoon rush hour traffic on a very busy 6 laned highway.........riding with one hand with the other holding a cell phone to her head.    

The wife was with me and she saw it too.  If I would have had my cell phone camera at the ready, I'd have taken this scooter girls pic to show as proof.  

That's not the "fast lane" anymore.  It is now the "phone lane".  You didn't know that?  Just ask any millenial.

[fudgie]

Saw a pretty young thang wearing a sleaveless top and shorts riding a scooter....

you had my attention till you said scooter. 

[Patrick]

We all leave the signals on at times, we're human. Its not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN you'll leave them on. I just get in the habit of shifting and punching that little button, that button doesn't really care how many times it gets punched.
I also never go to neutral at a stop, always in gear. From years of another job, one eye is always roaming through the gauges so all the instruments get are getting a look-see every few seconds, keeps me scanning everything. I still screw up at times too.

[cookiedough]

just wait,  in a few years and for sure less than 10 years, there will be cars out there able to drive themselves with very little input from the driver.  There are cars already out there with sensors that if following another car, will automatically slow you down to keep a safe following distance.  Am sure not too far in the future they will steer themselves then we will all be on the lookout for the cars if those electronics fail while we see drivers texting and eating and whatever else trips their fancy. 

[BF]

Saw a pretty young thang wearing a sleaveless top and shorts riding a scooter....

you had my attention till you said scooter.  

She was pretty darn cute.....the scooter not so much.  

let's face it, some drivers shouldn't be allowed on the pavement ever to drive.  

Saw a pretty young thang wearing a sleaveless top and shorts riding a scooter on the inside (fast) lane riding right through the middle of town right smack dab in the middle of the afternoon rush hour traffic on a very busy 6 laned highway.........riding with one hand with the other holding a cell phone to her head.    

The wife was with me and she saw it too.  If I would have had my cell phone camera at the ready, I'd have taken this scooter girls pic to show as proof.  

That's not the "fast lane" anymore.  It is now the "phone lane".   You didn't know that?  Just ask any millenial.

Yep, I know.  Usually the "fast" lane is the outside (right) lane around here.  All of the tailgating, cell phone talking, NASCAR wannabe's are all in the left lane now........and everyone of them can't figure out why the guy in front of them won't go any faster.  

[Patrick]

When I started driving places I was surprised at the number of people that just jerk along in the left lane and won't move over. That drives me crazy. There was a time here in NY when that would get you a 'coupon' for an expensive visit with the local judge. Hmm, at least thats one good thing NY did, but, no more.