the highlights of the employment picture

[musclehead]

june number revised down 16,000 from 188,000 to 172,000. the july numbers were revised down a whopping 58,000  from 162,000 to 104,000. sheesh!

retail trade added 44,000
education-health added 43,000
proffesional services added 23,000
leisure and hospitality 27,000
manufacturing 14,000

construction has been flat since jan this year.

transportation has been nearly flat since mid to late last year.

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf

we may have added over a million jobs since jan this year, but 7/8 are part time ......

[FLAVALK]

We haven't hired any full time employees in 4-years and our head guy says we're not going to. However, we have added about 20 temporary employees. The guy that owns the staffing agency we use (one of the biggest in the country) says all of his clients are doing the same and his business has never been better. He went on to say that. now more than ever before, companies are hiring temporary professional employees, like engineers.

[PAVALKER]

We haven't hired any full time employees in 4-years and our head guy says we're not going to. However, we have added about 20 temporary employees. The guy that owns the staffing agency we use (one of the biggest in the country) says that all of his clients are doing the same and his business has never been better. He went on to say that now more than ever before, companies are hiring temporary professional employees, like engineers.

Hmmmmm         And why do you suppose that is? 

[musclehead]

We haven't hired any full time employees in 4-years and our head guy says we're not going to. However, we have added about 20 temporary employees. The guy that owns the staffing agency we use (one of the biggest in the country) says that all of his clients are doing the same and his business has never been better. He went on to say that now more than ever before, companies are hiring temporary professional employees, like engineers.

Hmmmmm         And why do you suppose that is? 

it's all going according to plan 

[czuch]

The coup is already in place. All we need is a false flag incident,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[cookiedough]

We haven't hired any full time employees in 4-years and our head guy says we're not going to. However, we have added about 20 temporary employees. The guy that owns the staffing agency we use (one of the biggest in the country) says all of his clients are doing the same and his business has never been better. He went on to say that. now more than ever before, companies are hiring temporary professional employees, like engineers.

Exactly:  about 19 out of 20 jobs are temps in the market since employers can get away with it.  I'm hired nearly full time as a seasonal but with basically NO fricking benefits.   Not fair but it is what it is.

I don't buy one ounce into all that B.S. about how the economy is improving and employment is down.  Yah,  people are hired but as seasonals/temps is all whoopie doo!  AS soon as the employer wants to, you're gone in a heartbeat and you have no control over it you are at their mercy.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

We haven't hired any full time employees in 4-years and our head guy says we're not going to. However, we have added about 20 temporary employees. The guy that owns the staffing agency we use (one of the biggest in the country) says that all of his clients are doing the same and his business has never been better. He went on to say that now more than ever before, companies are hiring temporary professional employees, like engineers.

Hmmmmm         And why do you suppose that is? 

So they don't have to pay healthcare. Kinda sad in my opinion, but who am I ?

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

[PAVALKER]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

[cookiedough]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

I agree entirely with that statement.  Unions can be both good and bad.  SmokinJoe, consider yourself lucky and happy with your job with benefits, etc., sounds like a good one.  They all are not that way, Union or NON-Union alike. 

[Cotton Mouth]

I come from the midwest, where some of my family gatherings (thanksgiving, children's birthday parties, etc) almost ended in fist fights, all because somebody started a "conversation" about unions.

I have changed my mind on unions over the last 25 years, I'm a member but not a big fan, mainly due to their political views. 

I think the facts are finally starting to sink in though. The numbers do not lie.

CEO pay spiked 725 percent between 1978 and 2011, while worker pay rose just 5.7 percent, according to a study by the Economic Policy Institute.  Inflation is taken into account.

In 2011, CEO pay increased 15% (was 28% in 2010) while the American worker LOST 2% in 2011.

That means CEO pay grew approx. 127 faster than American worker pay over the last 30 years.

Looks like the old saying "do as I say, not as I do"  applies here.  No thanks, I'm not falling for it anymore.  I won't feel guilty about voting yes for a 2.5% wage increase at my job next contract.

[old2soon]

Back WHEN I have been known to take a little less per hour BECAUSE the outfit had way better benefits. From about 1985 on i watched my cost of benefits increase and the amount of benefits I received decrease. Since all this shinola bout the obuminater and the gubmint wanting to "help" take care of us the stories I read in the news get a little darker each day. As long as the gubmint and lame stream media manipulate the figures to what they WANT them to read I refuse to believe or buy into any of it. Believe 1% of what you hear 2% of what you see and of the 1% and 2% be very skeptical of ALL of it.  RIDE SAFE.

[musclehead]

I come from the midwest, where some of my family gatherings (thanksgiving, children's birthday parties, etc) almost ended in fist fights, all because somebody started a "conversation" about unions.

I have changed my mind on unions over the last 25 years, I'm a member but not a big fan, mainly due to their political views. 

I think the facts are finally starting to sink in though. The numbers do not lie.

CEO pay spiked 725 percent between 1978 and 2011, while worker pay rose just 5.7 percent, according to a study by the Economic Policy Institute.  Inflation is taken into account.

In 2011, CEO pay increased 15% (was 28% in 2010) while the American worker LOST 2% in 2011.

That means CEO pay grew approx. 127 faster than American worker pay over the last 30 years.

Looks like the old saying "do as I say, not as I do"  applies here.  No thanks, I'm not falling for it anymore.  I won't feel guilty about voting yes for a 2.5% wage increase at my job next contract.

I read somewhere the average CEO makes $180,000 a year, some, no doubt the biggest companies, are paying their CEO's many times the average employees wages.  that's not the picture that is usually painted......

[Cotton Mouth]

180,000 sounds right.  I know a CEO who makes $45,000 - he works at the family business, and he is the registered CEO.    Joe, CEO at Costco has a salary of around $53,000.  His stock options and bonuses are probably in the millions though, as they should be, but Costco takes good care of their employees and customers.

Many of the executives who salaries have tremendously increased (while their employees has decreased or remained stagnant) have done so gained from slashing jobs, benefits, and pay to the middle-class. 

Do as I say, not as I do, said the CEO.

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/meet-ceo-who-cut-worker-pay-half-while-pulling-21-million

ok, i'll get off my soapbox and return to work.

[musclehead]

180,000 sounds right.  I know a CEO who makes $45,000 - he works at the family business, and he is the registered CEO.    Joe, CEO at Costco has a salary of around $53,000.  His stock options and bonuses are probably in the millions though, as they should be, but Costco takes good care of their employees and customers.

Many of the executives who salaries have tremendously increased (while their employees has decreased or remained stagnant) have done so gained from slashing jobs, benefits, and pay to the middle-class. 

Do as I say, not as I do, said the CEO.

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/meet-ceo-who-cut-worker-pay-half-while-pulling-21-million

ok, i'll get off my soapbox and return to work.

millions on welfare/food stamps/ and obamaphones are depending on you 

[Cotton Mouth]

And on top of all the other handouts, see a lot of undeserving people getting disability pay for phony injuries and mental disorders.  Seemed to really pick up when the disability claim lawyers were advertising heavily on tv few years ago.  They sent you to their special doctor, and the payment checks started flowing in soon after.

Convicted Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL  ) is scheduled to receive $8,700 per month in government disability pay, as well as a partial federal pension of $45,000. That generous $8,700 in disability comes thanks to Jackson's sudden development of a "mood disorder" as the federal government began looking to indict him. Jackson, who was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison, had no history of mental illness during his prior 17 years in Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/15/Convicted-Jackson-Jr-disability

[The emperor has no clothes]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

Ditto

[musclehead]

And on top of all the other handouts, see a lot of undeserving people getting disability pay for phony injuries and mental disorders.  Seemed to really pick up when the disability claim lawyers were advertising heavily on tv few years ago.  They sent you to their special doctor, and the payment checks started flowing in soon after.

Convicted Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL  ) is scheduled to receive $8,700 per month in government disability pay, as well as a partial federal pension of $45,000. That generous $8,700 in disability comes thanks to Jackson's sudden development of a "mood disorder" as the federal government began looking to indict him. Jackson, who was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison, had no history of mental illness during his prior 17 years in Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/15/Convicted-Jackson-Jr-disability

I'm sure that's just a coincedence, like when hillary got concussed and couldn't testify about bengahzi

[The emperor has no clothes]

And on top of all the other handouts, see a lot of undeserving people getting disability pay for phony injuries and mental disorders.  Seemed to really pick up when the disability claim lawyers were advertising heavily on tv few years ago.  They sent you to their special doctor, and the payment checks started flowing in soon after.

Convicted Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL  ) is scheduled to receive $8,700 per month in government disability pay, as well as a partial federal pension of $45,000. That generous $8,700 in disability comes thanks to Jackson's sudden development of a "mood disorder" as the federal government began looking to indict him. Jackson, who was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison, had no history of mental illness during his prior 17 years in Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/15/Convicted-Jackson-Jr-disability

I'm sure that's just a coincedence, like when hillary got concussed and couldn't testify about bengahzi

You really don't remember her going before congress and answering every question they asked her ?

[MP]

And on top of all the other handouts, see a lot of undeserving people getting disability pay for phony injuries and mental disorders.  Seemed to really pick up when the disability claim lawyers were advertising heavily on tv few years ago.  They sent you to their special doctor, and the payment checks started flowing in soon after.

Convicted Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL  ) is scheduled to receive $8,700 per month in government disability pay, as well as a partial federal pension of $45,000. That generous $8,700 in disability comes thanks to Jackson's sudden development of a "mood disorder" as the federal government began looking to indict him. Jackson, who was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison, had no history of mental illness during his prior 17 years in Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/15/Convicted-Jackson-Jr-disability

I'm sure that's just a coincedence, like when hillary got concussed and couldn't testify about bengahzi

You really don't remember her going before congress and answering every question they asked her ?

Yep.  After her "concussion" allowed her several weeks to practice her story.

I REALLY remember her telling us that how the  American heros died, really did not matter anymore.  Yeah, I remember that!

MP

[The emperor has no clothes]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

[MP]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

So, magmt either agrees to paying the union members too much, thus bankrupting the company over the long run, or they turn it down, the union strikes, and bankrupts them right away.  Quite a choice!

Bankruptcy now, or later!

MP

[The emperor has no clothes]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

So, magmt either agrees to paying the union members too much, thus bankrupting the company over the long run, or they turn it down, the union strikes, and bankrupts them right away.  Quite a choice!

Bankruptcy now, or later!

MP

You are jumping to huge conclusions, even if a union does strike which usually it doesn't come to that it doesn't mean the company would go bankrupt. That very rarely happens. Everything is not so back & white. It is a negotiation.

[cookiedough]

negotiations? - tell that to GM and Chrysler, 2 of the biggest Unions around.

My dad worked 34 years at the same GM plant held many positions from the 50's to 80's.  He told us several times he would rather be working than on strike and even willing to pay more for health insurance, etc. benefits if it meant being able to work, not pickett/on strike in front of the plant.  Remember off and on the past 10 years of the late 70's/mid 80's he was on strike off and on but still received guessing 3/4 of his pay for NOT working.  Don't really agree with that but that is what part of a Union is all about I guess?  He wasn't a big shot just line worker making around lower 20's per hour but that is NOT much now considering they start floor sweepers out at 18 bucks per hour. 

What really ticks me off and is not really union related usually, is someone who has say 10-25 years of service making say 15 bucks per hour started off at say 7-8 bucks per hour, if that, and then they decide to hire a greenhorn in NO experience having to train him/her making the same, and USUALLY the case, more than what you are making for the same job.  That really ticks me off.  Happens all the time and is readily the norm and yet more often than not the greenhorn whines and bitches it isn't enough money for all the crap work he/she has to do.  I've told many to go find another job then and quit bitching and most leave soon after.

[The emperor has no clothes]

negotiations? - tell that to GM and Chrysler, 2 of the biggest Unions around.

My dad worked 34 years at the same GM plant held many positions from the 50's to 80's.  He told us several times he would rather be working than on strike and even willing to pay more for health insurance, etc. benefits if it meant being able to work, not pickett/on strike in front of the plant.  Remember off and on the past 10 years of the late 70's/mid 80's he was on strike off and on but still received guessing 3/4 of his pay for NOT working.  Don't really agree with that but that is what part of a Union is all about I guess?  He wasn't a big shot just line worker making around lower 20's per hour but that is NOT much now considering they start floor sweepers out at 18 bucks per hour. 

What really ticks me off and is not really union related usually, is someone who has say 10-25 years of service making say 15 bucks per hour started off at say 7-8 bucks per hour, if that, and then they decide to hire a greenhorn in NO experience having to train him/her making the same, and USUALLY the case, more than what you are making for the same job.  That really ticks me off.  Happens all the time and is readily the norm and yet more often than not the greenhorn whines and bitches it isn't enough money for all the crap work he/she has to do.  I've told many to go find another job then and quit bitching and most leave soon after.

I've been on strike twice in my life, luckily both very short 1 day & 1 week. Both extremely stressful. Wasn't paid 3/4's of our wages, wasn't paid a dime. Never met 1 fellow union member that wanted to strike, we all have families to take care of.

[musclehead]

And on top of all the other handouts, see a lot of undeserving people getting disability pay for phony injuries and mental disorders.  Seemed to really pick up when the disability claim lawyers were advertising heavily on tv few years ago.  They sent you to their special doctor, and the payment checks started flowing in soon after.

Convicted Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL  ) is scheduled to receive $8,700 per month in government disability pay, as well as a partial federal pension of $45,000. That generous $8,700 in disability comes thanks to Jackson's sudden development of a "mood disorder" as the federal government began looking to indict him. Jackson, who was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison, had no history of mental illness during his prior 17 years in Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/15/Convicted-Jackson-Jr-disability

I'm sure that's just a coincedence, like when hillary got concussed and couldn't testify about bengahzi

You really don't remember her going before congress and answering every question they asked her ?

you don't remember her delaying tactic?

[musclehead]

All the union haters on here should have a nice smile about this. The creation of the union's was because of crap like this folks working for nothing with no benefits.

28 year Union worker and proud of it.

But on the other side of the spectrum, those stories of multiple unionized specialists at Hostess (as one  example) helped put an entire company out of business and all those jobs were lost.... not just reduced to part time.  The extremists and corruption in the unions played a big part of the union greed.   Almost like politicians.... Union Leaders might have had good honest intentions and wanted to help, but ultimately, instead of changing the system and helping, they were changed, corrupt and put a significant strain on the system (be it the Union or Government).   And that's just my observation....  I never was in a Union but had brothers that were.

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

So, magmt either agrees to paying the union members too much, thus bankrupting the company over the long run, or they turn it down, the union strikes, and bankrupts them right away.  Quite a choice!

Bankruptcy now, or later!

MP

You are jumping to huge conclusions, even if a union does strike which usually it doesn't come to that it doesn't mean the company would go bankrupt. That very rarely happens. Everything is not so back & white. It is a negotiation.

usually that is correct, however the bakers union for whatever reason decided to play hard ball and not come to a mutually acceptable agreement. and hostess went away, whose best interests were they looking out for?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

[MP]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

And, Hostess Unions DEMANDED stupid contracts for years, or they would strike.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

And, Hostess Unions DEMANDED stupid contracts for years, or they would strike.

You are not getting my point. Unions can`t DEMAND anything.

[FLAVALK]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

And, Hostess Unions DEMANDED stupid contracts for years, or they would strike.

You are not getting my point. Unions can`t DEMAND anything.

Unions DEMAND all the time, what are you talking about???? I was in a union for ten years and saw/heard their demands

[MP]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

And, Hostess Unions DEMANDED stupid contracts for years, or they would strike.

You are not getting my point. Unions can`t DEMAND anything.

My worker comes to me, and says " Pay me $2.00 more per hour, or I will stop working".  And I live in a state that will NOT let me hire nonunion workers.  And, I have a crop in the field that has to come off NOW, or I lose it, and go bankrupt.  I do not know what YOU call it, but to me, it is a DEMAND!

I either pay $2.00 more, or go bankrupt!

MP

[cookiedough]

There is a difference between asking with a good reason and demanding a raise.

About 2 years ago I got a job offer making about 2 bucks more per hour than what I was making. 

I was going to take it ( in hindsight I should've), but went to my boss same day stating I had a job offer for such and such and unless you increase my wages to more than the .25 cents per hour per year raise we always get I'm leaving ASAP.  It wasn't a demand, it was a request since I knew I was underpaid vs. the others in the office doing the same type of work and for no good reason other than the boss is a tight wad.  I explained to her the quality and volume of work I have done for 5+ years was excellent and to underpay me vs. the others in the office was not justified.  Told her I was not stating I wasn't replaceable, but to find one person to do almost 2 people's jobs like I was doing would seem obvious to just increase my wages to keep me at work. 

So, she had to go to her boss and request for a substantial raise for me to stay.  Less than 30 minutes later she responded and gave me over 1.00 more to stay more in-line with what my fellow co-workers were getting paid.  Still not 2.00 to equal other job's pay, but she said come next season (which was soon) you will also get the .25 cent raise as well.  LIttle did I or my boss know that we all got .50 cent raises next season/year to keep up with inflation supposedly. 

Money wise, it was close now to the other job offer especially with a further drive to work with gas money and driving time hastle, etc.  so it all worked out for both sides.  I thought for sure the boss lady would not offer me a dime since she was tight with her money/budget, but she came to her senses and I can guarantee you now she was glad I didn't take the other job offer with still me doing 2 people's jobs for 1 person's pay with all the other crap going on.

Point:  there is a difference between just demanding a raise and asking for a raise for a really good reason with points justified and valid for a raise.    Sometimes I think Unions are good for the employees, but to justify pay increases and increased benefits, etc. for all even those in the Union not worth a dime (or the old saying goes a pot to _iss in),  isn't right either. 

[G-Man]

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

But what if my company made 65 million a year and could afford to pay you a million to post on this board, but now, 5 years later, business is down and I can't afford to pay those salaries any longer?  How come the union is only a partner in my gains, but not my losses?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hostess had agreed to stupid contracts for years, that's what drove them out.

And, Hostess Unions DEMANDED stupid contracts for years, or they would strike.

You are not getting my point. Unions can`t DEMAND anything.

My worker comes to me, and says " Pay me $2.00 more per hour, or I will stop working".  And I live in a state that will NOT let me hire nonunion workers.  And, I have a crop in the field that has to come off NOW, or I lose it, and go bankrupt.  I do not know what YOU call it, but to me, it is a DEMAND!

I either pay $2.00 more, or go bankrupt!

MP

If worker quits working you hire another worker. Doesn't seem that difficult to me.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Nobody forced the exec's at hostess to sign those contracts. If a union asks for more that doesn't make them corrupt. It is up to the exec's to do what is best for the company. If I ask you to sign a contract to pay me a million dollars to sit here and post on the board, who would be the bonehead for doing that? Unions just negotiate for the members if management agrees to dumb contracts they probably weren't going to make it in business anyway.

But what if my company made 65 million a year and could afford to pay you a million to post on this board, but now, 5 years later, business is down and I can't afford to pay those salaries any longer?  How come the union is only a partner in my gains, but not my losses?

There are contracts renegotiated all the time. Workers generally are amenable to this as long as the execs take a cut also.

[musclehead]

that's the drift I got from the hostess debacle, the workers were amenable the union bosses not so much. I don't have a clue as the managements position, were they making millions in the down economy? maybe.

but they also said they needed a deal with the unions or they would go out of business. they weren't bluffing.

[MP]

that's the drift I got from the hostess debacle, the workers were amenable the union bosses not so much.

Well, at least what was on the news, was that most of the unions would go along.  However, one or two refused to budge, even when bankruptcy was the result.  So, they went ahead, and LOST all the jobs, for ALL the workers.  If I had been one of the other workers, I would be PO'd.

The union figured it was better to bankrupt the company, than to make any concessions.  It was also reported that the mgmt big wigs had agreed to work for $1 per year, until profitability returned.

One DEMAND that the union had, was the different products be hauled in different trucks.  So, three or four trucks were needed to haul what ONE truck could haul.  Mgmt said they could not afford that anymore, and the union said screw the company.  We would rather have NO truck drivers than one.  What a load of c**p.

[The emperor has no clothes]

that's the drift I got from the hostess debacle, the workers were amenable the union bosses not so much.

Well, at least what was on the news, was that most of the unions would go along.  However, one or two refused to budge, even when bankruptcy was the result.  So, they went ahead, and LOST all the jobs, for ALL the workers.  If I had been one of the other workers, I would be PO'd.

The union figured it was better to bankrupt the company, than to make any concessions.  It was also reported that the mgmt big wigs had agreed to work for $1 per year, until profitability returned.

One DEMAND that the union had, was the different products be hauled in different trucks.  So, three or four trucks were needed to haul what ONE truck could haul.  Mgmt said they could not afford that anymore, and the union said screw the company.  We would rather have NO truck drivers than one.  What a load of c**p.

Not exactly

[fudgie]

We are short staffed here. We have no part timers that will work. We cannot just open hire. PT positions have to be approved in order to hire. We are only allowed to have so many pt spot. Nothing to do with obama. Just sayin.