Building an AR-15

[MarkT]

Getting started on an AR-15 project.  Picked up a Del-Ton anodized black aluminum forged 7075 T6 lower receiver.  Hope that's a good choice - read some good reviews but not enough to be meaningful.  Now getting started getting the rest of the parts.  Any input on sources, and specific kits / trigger groups / barrels / uppers etc.  Like to build a tack-driver, (or at least as much as possible with 5.56.) but still good for combat if the SHTF.  I realize they are opposed purposes but maybe I can build w/o too much compromise (e.g., high peek-thru scope mount, so iron or optic sights usable.)   Maybe a bull barrel if weight not too much to get accuracy hot or cold. Not in a hurry - quality first, speed and price can be slipped. Thanks for your comments.

[The Anvil]

If you want accuracy, be sure to get a heavy profile, hammer forged barrel, no chrome lining. You can go stainless but I'm not a big fan. Chrome lining is for durability, not accuracy.

Ask yourself what weight projectile you're going to shoot. When you get up into 70+ grains you'll need 1:7 twist. If you're gonna shoot anything under including 40gr varmint loads then 1:9 will be fine. 1:7 might be a bit too much spin with very light grain bullets though. Also, you probably already know this but 20" is better for accuracy and distance than 16" but you can still get very good accuracy out of the gubmint minimum 16". You WILL want it free-floating as well.

For a trigger you'll want Geiselle. I have a Super Dynamic Combat (sounds like a Japanese cartoon, I know) model in my AR and it's a great trigger. Not cheap at about 220 bucks, but worth the money. In this months "Book of the AR" magazine there's a great write-up on Geiselle that will help you make a decision but if you're looking for slow-fire accuracy I'd look at the High Speed National Match trigger group.

Del-Ton is a decent lower. Not the best, but far from the worst. The accuracy isn't really in the lower so you've picked a decent foundation as long as all of the points are to spec.

For furniture I am a big Magpul fan. It's excellent quality and very reasonably priced. They make no free-float forends though. For that you'll want Troy Industries (my favorite), LaRue, Daniel Defense, Knight's Armament (very $$$), Yankee Hill Machine, Alexander Arms, Advanced Armament Corp, Midwest Industries all make good stuff as well.

My go-to AR is a Colt lower and A3 upper with lightweight profile barrel (my rifle's not a tack driver), Troy Industries 13.8" TRX quad rail, Diamondhead BUIS (back-up iron sights), Magpul ACS stock, Magpul MOE+ grip (BUY THIS, you will love it), Magpul BAD lever, Magpul AFG (angled foregrip) and Vortex SPARC red dot sight with LaRue QD mount. Oh, and the aforementioned Geiselle trigger group.

[22Dasher]

You can spend thousands building an AR here's one I have nearly 8 grand in



Then here's another I have close to 4 grand in





And a 200 yrd five shot group out of the econd one posted.

[Pete]

If you are building a carbine I would use the M4 profile barrel, my experience with it indicates it is very accurate. And is a  standard barrel made by many folks, all seem to shoot great.

I would use a floating forward hand guard and mount the sites on it rather than the barrel.
I prefer the longer hand guard, 10 to 12 inches for the longer site radius and extended hand placement.

An inexpensive red dot/holographic site is  good investment for quick shots and old eyes, about $50.

If you use an adjustable stock, make sure it is a snug fit to help accuracy. 

[PAVALKER]

Nice looking toys.... love em all.  That 200yd group is  

I think the best accessory is the ammo of course, the more the merrier....  finding some at "reasonable" prices is difficult but it's out there.

I am looking for decent/good sling attachments.  I do have a QD Single Point Sling and a QD point built in on my receiver.  But, I also have a nice full adjustable sling that feeds thru the rear and front sling loops... but for ease of change or removal I am considering adding HK snap hooks or Mash Hooks, and leaning towards Mash Hooks.... but not sure how well they will work with existing sling loops?  Any thoughts?

When building an AR, everything has to be taken into consideration I have no doubt.  Even tho I bought one done already... Sig M400 with Prismatic Scope..... I still  replaced the stock fore-grip with one having rails and want to add a Hogue Overmolded Beavertail grip with finger grooves.   It's always something, of a few somethings.....  like having a bike and adding/replacing or modifying stuff.  When does it end....    

[The Anvil]

If you are building a carbine I would use the M4 profile barrel, my experience with it indicates it is very accurate. And is a  standard barrel made by many folks, all seem to shoot great.

I would use a floating forward hand guard and mount the sites on it rather than the barrel.
I prefer the longer hand guard, 10 to 12 inches for the longer site radius and extended hand placement.

An inexpensive red dot/holographic site is  good investment for quick shots and old eyes, about $50.

If you use an adjustable stock, make sure it is a snug fit to help accuracy. 

Some companies are making nice M4 barrels without the M203 cut (which is pretty much useless for civilians anyway) which wouldn't be a bad choice for an all purpose rifle. It won't get you one-hole groups at 200 yards but it will still be good enough to reliably hit a soda can at 100.

[The Anvil]

You can spend thousands building an AR here's one I have nearly 8 grand in

Is that a Christensen?

PAVALKER, check out Savvy Sniper for some nice slings that might work for you.

[RP#62]

This is a good read on the subject:

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AR15_part1.asp

-RP

[Jess from VA]

I have not built one, I have carefully chosen complete rifles, then made some changes/upgrades and added optics.

There is something to be said for lifetime warranties (from companies that care about customer service), thou seldom needed for quality firearms.

What I can recommend is Brownell's and Midway; no guarantee, but you stand a decent chance of getting someone who can give good advice.  AR15.com can be good too, but you may have to wade around awhile to find what you are looking for.  

I do not see a lot of utility in trying for sub minute-of-angle at longer ranges in an AR.  To me, the utility in a combat carbine is complete reliability, and minute-of-bad-guy at 200 and in.  Nothing wrong with an old fashioned bolt gun for longer range accuracy.... it's what they do.  Of course I do understand the quest for perfection in anything that interests us.

Here is an interesting build. 
 

[Serk]

Some folks have expressed bad experiences with their build quality and/or their customer service, but for simple builds I'm still a fan of Model 1 Sales.

http://model1sales.com/

Granted, I have a massive advantage since they're local to me and go to many area gun shows. Last time I called 'em they said custom orders had a 8-10 month back log, but you can walk up to their booth at any gun show and pick from 100's of uppers right then and there.

Having said all that, even if they're NOT what you end up going with (Which from your description they're probably not) it's still a fun site to browse through and play "What If" on different builds, and at the very least you can use it to set a bottom baseline.

(Their "Complete Kits" are everything but a stripped lower receiver, including all parts to build out said stripped lower receiver into a complete lower receiver.)

[The Anvil]

This is a good read on the subject:

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AR15_part1.asp

-RP

Lots of good, basic info in there. Just keep in mind that it's 16 years old. The AR marketplace has EXPLODED between then and now. Back then it was pretty much Colt, Bushmaster and Armalite making rifles and building one was mostly the domain of the FFL dealer and serious hobbyist. Now? I could rattle off a dozen with no effort. Same with parts and accessories and anyone can build em. It's a good time to be a black rifle fan.

[22Dasher]

You can spend thousands building an AR here's one I have nearly 8 grand in

Is that a Christensen?

PAVALKER, check out Savvy Sniper for some nice slings that might work for you.

Here's a break down of complete build. I just added the ATACR scope today




POF*USA .308 = $3000
NightForce ATACR = $2328
GDI P-Rom L-Model 25moa 34mm mount = $565
Geissele SD-E trigger = $250
PWS PRC compensator = $112
Atlas V8 bipod w/spikes = $340
Flatline Ops level = $170
Slash anti-tilt heavy buffer system = $150
Magpul PRS stock = $250
Accu-Shot monopod = $110
HTI sniper skid plate = $35
Rainier Raptor charging handle = $85
Seekins may release button = $13
Battle Arms Development Ambi-Safety = $65
Cascadia Armament QD sling adapter for PRS = $35
Troy QD picatinny sling adapter = $30
Sling = $16
Ergo Tactical Deluxe grip w/palm shelf = $75

TBAC 30BA suppressor (not pictured) = $1200
Suppressor transfer fee = $75
ATF tax stamp = $200

Total cost = $9,104

[The Anvil]

You can spend thousands building an AR here's one I have nearly 8 grand in

Is that a Christensen?

PAVALKER, check out Savvy Sniper for some nice slings that might work for you.

Here's a break down of complete build. I just added the ATACR scope today




POF*USA .308 = $3000
NightForce ATACR = $2328
GDI P-Rom L-Model 25moa 34mm mount = $565
Geissele SD-E trigger = $250
PWS PRC compensator = $112
Atlas V8 bipod w/spikes = $340
Flatline Ops level = $170
Slash anti-tilt heavy buffer system = $150
Magpul PRS stock = $250
Accu-Shot monopod = $110
HTI sniper skid plate = $35
Rainier Raptor charging handle = $85
Seekins may release button = $13
Battle Arms Development Ambi-Safety = $65
Cascadia Armament QD sling adapter for PRS = $35
Troy QD picatinny sling adapter = $30
Sling = $16
Ergo Tactical Deluxe grip w/palm shelf = $75

TBAC 30BA suppressor (not pictured) = $1200
Suppressor transfer fee = $75
ATF tax stamp = $200

Total cost = $9,104

Ah, POF, nice stuff. Really nice.

I ordered my suppressor about a month and a half ago. It's an AAC 762-SDN (so I can use it on everything from .308 down to 5.45X39). Gonna be a long, excruciating wait. 

[PAVALKER]

PAVALKER, check out Savvy Sniper for some nice slings that might work for you.

I have actually. Nice stuff.  I would have thought with your love of Magpul that you would have recommended the MS3    http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG503/51      If I wanted a complete sling, I would probably have to get that.... but all I need are the quick hooks (HK, Mash or if there are other/better options ??).... and Magpul did a fine job on their new proprietary hardware.... but it's not for sale without their sling.  The sling I have is adjustable and it works great, but to attach it I am leaning towards the covered Mash hooks because I have heard the HK hooks can open under certain circumstances.  I don't want to buy a new sling, just a means to attach/detach the one I have in a reasonably quick manner.  Thanks for input tho....

[fordmano]

I am sure you saw the thread with what I did a few months back,,, but just incase you didn't.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,54076.0.html


I have started on a AR15 ultra lightweight pistol and Ultra light weight rifle both will be in .22lr
Hoping to keep the rifle under 4.5lbs and the pistol under 3.5lbs. These may not be the most accurate guns especially in my tired hands using my old sorry eyes but they are fun to shoot and even more fun to show off considering I am making these (with my on hands) from 80% lowers and the 2 .22lr's will be polymer lowers.

Good luck, there are more options out there than you can possibly imagine. Only one company I would steer you away from with my limited experience is R-Guns. I have only purchased one stripped upper from them during the making the 2 past and 2 current builds the product looks ok but the wait time for delivery was insane for a simple stripped upper. Took almost 4 months to get it.

[fordmano]

+100 on the Geissele as the trigger of choice.  

But if you gave $250.xx you gave a bit too much for the model, shouldn't give more than $230.xx it all ads up when your building and especially your first one.


Ar's are like chips you can never just have one, or like tattoos once you get on another is on its way.

[The Anvil]

PAVALKER, check out Savvy Sniper for some nice slings that might work for you.

I have actually. Nice stuff.  I would have thought with your love of Magpul that you would have recommended the MS3    http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG503/51      If I wanted a complete sling, I would probably have to get that.... but all I need are the quick hooks (HK, Mash or if there are other/better options ??).... and Magpul did a fine job on their new proprietary hardware.... but it's not for sale without their sling.  The sling I have is adjustable and it works great, but to attach it I am leaning towards the covered Mash hooks because I have heard the HK hooks can open under certain circumstances.  I don't want to buy a new sling, just a means to attach/detach the one I have in a reasonably quick manner.  Thanks for input tho....

I actually have an MS3 and it's okay, but it's not as nice as the SS stuff.

[MarkT]

Thanks everybody for all the tips.  Esp Anvil, good stuff.

Well I think I did alright.  Took your leads and did a bunch of reading on forums and reviews and I think I came up with some good choices for my particular purpose.  Didn't find any super deals but for the most part I buy into ya get what you pay for.  Or in the words of Oskar Schindler - "Nice things cost money".  I think I'm building a good target / competition rifle.  

As I said, starting with the Del-ton lower.  Ordered just a basic parts kit for the lower from CTD - the JSE kit, $70.  Looked carefully at triggers just to be thorough, looked also at Timney "drop in" single stage triggers.  Researching on the Geissele, their application notes and a lot of reviews and their specs, looks like the National Match 2-stage will be the best for my purpose - price up a bit since Jamie priced them - and didn't see any advantage to scour better for a deal so got it from the source at $293 incl shipping.  More digging on barrels and uppers, wanted to find a 20" bull barrel 1:8" twist .223 Wylde but couldn't find it as an upper kit so went with a DPMS flat-top upper with 1:8" twist 24" target-crowned bull barrel in stainless with free float handguard w/rails.  Lots of feedback on this barrel providing 1/2 MOA while fed nearly any ammo.  That's single hole groups benchrest at 100yds, and 1" groups at 200 - hot or cold.  That's what I'm talking about!  Looks like the rifle will come in around 12 lbs - that's OK, I'm not hunting with it.  OK, maybe varmints but that's more sniping than hunting.  I don't have the stock ordered yet - I like the Magpuls with cheek risers but $230+ at CTD kinda sticks in the craw.  I see a similar Mako for $92 at CTD, and a Magpul on ebay at $143.

So far at $1104 including shipping, the armorer's tool, w/o magazines or stock or iron sights.  Pretty good with a 24" full floated SS bull barrel, and Geissele's National Match fully adjustable trigger.  I already have an excellent Leupold scope for it - still need the rings, gonna wait to see how high I need to mount it. Still need a couple more toys, a decent bipod and sling setup.  Probably not gonna do much with the rails; don't need laser or tac light for this toy.

[Jess from VA]

Can't wait for pics Mark.

I don't know what scope you are mounting, but I could not get mine far enough forward with rings (and straight risers) on my flat top.  With the scope too far to the rear, you cannot get a proper cheek weld to stock, and risk scope eye even with light recoil.  One piece mounts are strong, much easier to get set up/aligned properly, sit the scope farther forward, and seem much better designed for ARs.  For me, the objective needed to be about even with the charging handle, but no farther back. (And I got a long eye relief Leupold 1.25-4x20 VX-R 30mm)

It didn't take long to discover the favorite was LaRue Tactical (or Bobro Engineering), but they are expensive.  The economical Burris AR-P.E.P.R was HD but heavy and made in China.  I think the GG & G (US made) was a good lightweight choice for a bit cheaper than LaRue.  I also saved by getting a permanent mount and not a quick detach (which I did not need).

Nice AR15 link on optic mounts
http://www.maxicon.com/guns/optics/one_piece/ar15_onepiece_mounts.htm

For all things optic, SWFA is the gold standard website, and about the best place to begin  any search.  Once choices are narrowed, you can find more detailed info and opinions elsewhere.  They are a good outfit who stand behind all they sell, and they price match, so I found best price, then got them to match it so I had their guarantees in place.

http://swfa.com/Mounts-Rings-and-Bases-C573.aspx

Here's what I chose.  
http://swfa.com/GGG-Bolt-On-FLT-Scope-Mount-w-Integral-30mm-Rings-P45775.aspx

[The Anvil]

Mark, be really careful buying Magpul stuff on Ebay, or any gun accessories for that matter. A lot of it is Chinese knockoff Airsoft stuff.

The higher end (read: adjustable and compartment bearing) Magpul stocks are not cheap like the bare-bones combat stocks, but neither are the offerings from Troy, VLTOR etc. If you can find a genuine Mako that does what you want for that money then buy it. Make is Israeli military issue and is good stuff.

I'm gonna echo Jess on LaRue optics mounts. They are top-shelf stuff. No cheap for sure. My QD SPARC mount (same mount for the Aimpoint T1 micro) was about 100 bucks. But there are cheaper, reliable options out there.

Good choice on the 24" barrel. If you're building a long-range gun then that is what you want, weight be cursed.

[The Anvil]

I do not see a lot of utility in trying for sub minute-of-angle at longer ranges in an AR.

I didn't either, but the feral hog problem they're having down south has kind of opened my eyes a little. A highly accurate AR10 that holds 20 rounds can mean the difference between taking out one at a time or three or four.

Now, if they'd just let us exterminate the cursed forest rats we have up here...