Countdown to government shutdown

[musclehead]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Wow, just wow.  You think a government shutdown is a good thing?  I'm speechless at the ignorance displayed in such a comment.

we have 800,000 non essential workers sent home.  the government is the only entity that can have lots of non essential folks drawing a paycheck. (present company excluded  )

most everyone here thinks we have an overbearing, bloated, obnoxious over reaching government.

don't worry about the speechless thing, I'm sure you'll start typing any minute  

[The emperor has no clothes]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

[Serk]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

[musclehead]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

shutting down the very things we have paid into our entire lives, without a choice?  yeah probably.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

You're alright with the immediate job loss of 800,000 but not the immediate loss of S.S. ?

[Serk]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

You're alright with the immediate job loss of 800,000 but not the immediate loss of S.S. ?

Yes. While I feel for the federal employees that would lose their jobs if we succeed in making the so-called shutdown permanent, that's a small drop in the bucket compared to the millions that have lost their careers and now only have part time jobs, at best, since Obama took office.

We can't continue spending hand over fist like we've been doing, and we can either take some bitter medicine now or some REALLY bitter surgery later to stop it. And don't start on raising taxes, if we were to tax the evil 1% at an European like 100%, we'd still not cover our current deficits... DEEP cuts have to be made. Not superficial silliness, but real, painful cuts.

[musclehead]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

You're alright with the immediate job loss of 800,000 but not the immediate loss of S.S. ?

so many government agencies have had an explosion in growth since '09 there could be a 2 to 3% cut in their budgets over 10 years and they would still be bloated...

and this may be a shock, but the government is not the entire economy 

[Gavin_Sons]

Like I said before, I dont care that the government shut down. I feel bad for the government workers that are not being paid but this needed to happen just to show the people do not want government ran health care. Im all for it, but apparently obama has a few kool aid drinkers kissing his feet and praising him.

[Daddie O]

Our National Parks, Museums, American Battle Monuments, NASA, EPA, Consumer Product Safety Commission, USDA (aside from food inspectors), Department of Commerce, Department of Energy, Department of Health and Human Services, Board of Education, Center for Disease Control, half the FDA, Department of Housing and Urban Development, OSHA, more than half the Department of Transportation, National Transportation Safety Board, Department of the Treasury, FCC, Library of Congress, Smithsonian, National Archives, Small Business Administration, are all considered non-essential as far as the budget goes.  Personally, I consider those Departments essential.  In your hatred of all things government do you really think we should do without these departments?  Do you think by shutting down these departments you are in any way affecting the Affordable Care Act?

[Master Blaster]

Our National Parks, Museums, American Battle Monuments, NASA, EPA, Consumer Product Safety Commission, USDA (aside from food inspectors), Department of Commerce, Department of Energy, Department of Health and Human Services, Board of Education, Center for Disease Control, half the FDA, Department of Housing and Urban Development, OSHA, more than half the Department of Transportation, National Transportation Safety Board, Department of the Treasury, FCC, Library of Congress, Smithsonian, National Archives, Small Business Administration, are all considered non-essential as far as the budget goes.  Personally, I consider those Departments essential.  In your hatred of all things government do you really think we should do without these departments?  Do you think by shutting down these departments you are in any way affecting the Affordable Care Act?
[/quot

Damm right, all those departments you throw out there are not a force for good.   EPA for one has been turned into a tool to assignate the supreme ones enemys, and to further pipe dreams of his version of utopia, dont even get me started on the board of education.  Many of those have been perverted to political tools to push unrealistic ideals.  It is the liberal agenda to name cluster f----s a high moral sounding thing that nobody would oppose, such as the affordable health care act.  What a crock.

[Daddie O]

You do realize that both Democrats and Republicans agree on the funding of those departments right?  That the disagreement is not over funding those departments, but in funding the ACA, which is already funded.  

You think we should have no National Parks?  No Battle Monuments?  You think we shouldn't explore outer space or even monitor it?  You think we should not protect the environment?  You don't think we should have a commission that tests for the safety of products?  You think we shouldn't have a Department of Agriculture, or Energy?  You think we shouldn't have the Center for Disease Control?  You think there shouldn't be Occupational Safety and Hazard?  You think we shouldn't have a Small Business Administration to give loans to start up businesses?  Are you out of your mind?  I think you should move to a third world country that lack those things, you would be much happier.

[Gavin_Sons]

Shut it all down and shove it all up their asses, oh wait , not enough room because thats where they keep their heads.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

You're alright with the immediate job loss of 800,000 but not the immediate loss of S.S. ?

Yes. While I feel for the federal employees that would lose their jobs if we succeed in making the so-called shutdown permanent, that's a small drop in the bucket compared to the millions that have lost their careers and now only have part time jobs, at best, since Obama took office.

We can't continue spending hand over fist like we've been doing, and we can either take some bitter medicine now or some REALLY bitter surgery later to stop it. And don't start on raising taxes, if we were to tax the evil 1% at an European like 100%, we'd still not cover our current deficits... DEEP cuts have to be made. Not superficial silliness, but real, painful cuts.

Then why not deep painfull cuts to S.S. and Medicare ? It seems to me the conservatives are all for cuts as long as their govt. programs are not the ones cut.

[musclehead]

You do realize that both Democrats and Republicans agree on the funding of those departments right?  That the disagreement is not over funding those departments, but in funding the ACA, which is already funded.  

You think we should have no National Parks?  No Battle Monuments?  You think we shouldn't explore outer space or even monitor it?  You think we should not protect the environment?  You don't think we should have a commission that tests for the safety of products?  You think we shouldn't have a Department of Agriculture, or Energy?  You think we shouldn't have the Center for Disease Control?  You think there shouldn't be Occupational Safety and Hazard?  You think we shouldn't have a Small Business Administration to give loans to start up businesses?  Are you out of your mind?  I think you should move to a third world country that lack those things, you would be much happier.

this is a straw man arguement, all us'n on the right want to destroy government.

I said it's overbearing and over reaching, doesn't mean it's not necessary. it has a function just not all of this.....

now that you mention it the DOE? what exactly has it been besides a gaping maw, devouring billions?

[f6john]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Wow, just wow.  You think a government shutdown is a good thing?  I'm speechless at the ignorance displayed in such a comment.

     The Civil War wasn't a "good thing" either. Many of the changes to our country after the war was. All this really displays is that we really haven't changed all that much from 150 years or so. Two views that are seemingly incompatible without any compromise or possibility of an equitable resolution. The shut down isn't good but hopefully it will result in positive changes.

     I don't think that the president should fold either. He does have a "winning record" on his side and he should take that as far as it will carry him. But the elected officials who disagree and want to pow wow at the bargaining table shouldn't fold either, as they are representing my views and my wishes. I don't want to see the economy trashed more than it is already, but if those who should be sitting across from each other to forge a stronger country want to or are forced to continue pointing fingers at each other then, so be it.

[f6john]

You do realize that both Democrats and Republicans agree on the funding of those departments right?  That the disagreement is not over funding those departments, but in funding the ACA, which is already funded.  





    I agree that most of us want the ACA killed, if I understand what I have been reading and listening to the bill being offered now is to delay implementation for 12 months, equal to what the President has done for those businesses he deemed appropriate. That is too much to ask for to put 800,000 back on the clock and would be caving in a hostage situation by the Tea Party terrorists. Have I got that right?

[.]

Considering what appears to be the view of many on this forum that the current shutdown of government is no big deal and should perhaps even be permanent it may be instructive to consider the potential financial fallout. A report from Treasury outlines the potential for some very far reaching consequences that will affect everyone if the U.S. actually defaults. This is a hell of a lot bigger than shutting down some parks and laying off some federal workers, even though a lot of workers deemed "nonessential" perform such nonessential duties as food inspections, disease monitoring and control, atmospheric monitoring, etc.

From the prologue: The United States has never defaulted on its obligations, and the U. S. dollar and Treasury securities are at the center of the international financial system. A default would be unprecedented and has the potential to be catastrophic: credit markets could freeze, the value of the dollar could plummet, U.S. interest rates could skyrocket, the negative spillovers could reverberate around the world, and there might be a financial crisis and recession that could echo the events of 2008 or worse.

The full report is here: http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/Documents/POTENTIAL%20MACROECONOMIC%20IMPACT%20OF%20DEBT%20CEILING%20BRINKMANSHIP.pdf

[Robert]

SS and medicare were supposed to be funded accounts till the gov stole the funds for other projects so when some speak that they should keep this going they are correct. It was already paid for and setup and paid into, it is not a handout like this generation has come to know. Its really sad that some don't understand this concept that the gov stole the funds allotted for SS then try to make it the same as other handout programs. Sad also that they dont question it and turn on the very citizens that paid into it thinking the gov was going to be able to honor its obligations.

[Daddie O]

SS and medicare were supposed to be funded accounts till the gov stole the funds for other projects so when some speak that they should keep this going they are correct. It was already paid for and setup and paid into, it is not a handout like this generation has come to know. Its really sad that some don't understand this concept that the gov stole the funds allotted for SS then try to make it the same as other handout programs. Sad also that they dont question it and turn on the very citizens that paid into it thinking the gov was going to be able to honor its obligations.

I distinctly remember during the Presidential Debates preceding the 2000 election, Al Gore and George Bush debating about what to do with the budget surplus.  Al Gore said we need to put it in a "lockbox" in order to insure Social Security's solvency till at least 2050 and possibly beyond.  George Bush ridiculed Al Gore, saying "see he thinks the government knows better than you what to do with your money", and instead he proposed sending the money back to the people.  We know how this played out.  Bush won the electoral college (he lost the popular vote), and everyone got a check for $300.

[musclehead]

Considering what appears to be the view of many on this forum that the current shutdown of government is no big deal and should perhaps even be permanent it may be instructive to consider the potential financial fallout. A report from Treasury outlines the potential for some very far reaching consequences that will affect everyone if the U.S. actually defaults. This is a hell of a lot bigger than shutting down some parks and laying off some federal workers, even though a lot of workers deemed "nonessential" perform such nonessential duties as food inspections, disease monitoring and control, atmospheric monitoring, etc.

From the prologue: The United States has never defaulted on its obligations, and the U. S. dollar and Treasury securities are at the center of the international financial system. A default would be unprecedented and has the potential to be catastrophic: credit markets could freeze, the value of the dollar could plummet, U.S. interest rates could skyrocket, the negative spillovers could reverberate around the world, and there might be a financial crisis and recession that could echo the events of 2008 or worse.

The full report is here: http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/Documents/POTENTIAL%20MACROECONOMIC%20IMPACT%20OF%20DEBT%20CEILING%20BRINKMANSHIP.pdf

could, could,might, maybe I'll bet you it doesn't go that far.

[Skinhead]

Just got off the phone with my son who works for Cessna, seems they may get furloughed since they can't certify new aircraft, or maintain aircraft that will require FAA endorsment/signoff due to the shut down.  This is the same company that lost ove 600 orders for new aircraft after Obummer vilified the big 3 for flying down to DC in their corporate jets after he was elected.  Then the hypocrite in chief has the nerve to globetrot in AF1 with all the accompanying support. 

Yeah, he's a piece of work!  I'm still waiting for him to be called out on all the promises he made to get elected and has not fulfilled.  Government regulation and big government is causing alot of the problems and providing few solutions, unless your one of the takers.  God help the producers.

[Daddie O]

Tell your son to find a new job.  One that doesn't depend on the evil government.  You are in favor of the government shutdown, your son gets laid off....seems like karmic justice right there. 

[musclehead]

Tell your son to find a new job.  One that doesn't depend on the evil government.  You are in favor of the government shutdown, your son gets laid off....seems like karmic justice right there. 

re-read this, hmm seems a tad snarky

[Skinhead]

Tell your son to find a new job.  One that doesn't depend on the evil government.  You are in favor of the government shutdown, your son gets laid off....seems like karmic justice right there.  

Believe me, he's looking.  I never said I was in favor of the shut down,  I am for the repeal or at least the delay of Obummer care.  As far as karmic justice goes, there is still plenty of time, karma is a bitch and it applies to everyone.  

Ride safe.

[Skinhead]

Tell your son to find a new job.  One that doesn't depend on the evil government.  You are in favor of the government shutdown, your son gets laid off....seems like karmic justice right there. 

re-read this, hmm seems a tad snarky

I agree, and as a believer in karma, I decided to go for the high road.

[Robert]

SS and medicare were supposed to be funded accounts till the gov stole the funds for other projects so when some speak that they should keep this going they are correct. It was already paid for and setup and paid into, it is not a handout like this generation has come to know. Its really sad that some don't understand this concept that the gov stole the funds allotted for SS then try to make it the same as other handout programs. Sad also that they dont question it and turn on the very citizens that paid into it thinking the gov was going to be able to honor its obligations.

I distinctly remember during the Presidential Debates preceding the 2000 election, Al Gore and George Bush debating about what to do with the budget surplus.  Al Gore said we need to put it in a "lockbox" in order to insure Social Security's solvency till at least 2050 and possibly beyond.  George Bush ridiculed Al Gore, saying "see he thinks the government knows better than you what to do with your money", and instead he proposed sending the money back to the people.  We know how this played out.  Bush won the electoral college (he lost the popular vote), and everyone got a check for $300.

I agree with you on this not that I believe Gore would have really done it or that the fund would not have been raided and some point just like it has before and after. My point is though that this is like a trust account and not to be touched. All pay into it and its not a hand out. Some always bring up the point of SS like its the unfunded hand outs that O does. If anyone talks about SS like taking it away then we should lock up all the politicians because they actually stole the money. Using it for purposes it was not designed for is theft. Its like you put money in a savings account then one day go to take it out and the bank tells you we had to use it for something else. You were not entitled to that money anyway.

[Daddie O]

Skinhead, I'm glad to hear you do not favor government shutdown as a means to affect change in the law colloquially known as Obamacare.  My favorite Senator, Bernie Sanders agrees with you.  Give a listen to his speech.  It's worth 15 minutes of your time.

Republicans vs. Republicans

[Serk]

My favorite Senator, Bernie Sanders

Ah, thanks for that tidbit of information, that explains SO much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

he is the first person elected to Congress to identify as a socialist in six decades

(Seriously, not snarking, that explains where you're coming from very well and explains your positions much better. It also confirms we will never see eye to eye.)

[Daddie O]

My favorite Senator, Bernie Sanders

Ah, thanks for that tidbit of information, that explains SO much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

he is the first person elected to Congress to identify as a socialist in six decades

(Seriously, not snarking, that explains where you're coming from very well and explains your positions much better. It also confirms we will never see eye to eye.)

Nice piece of selective editing there Serk!  I see how you cut out the phrase:  "Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist,[2][3] and has praised Scandinavian-style social democracy."

Many Conservatives just love to take bits and pieces of sentences and paragraphs and cut and chop and reform them into "catch phrases" that really distort reality, but fit nicely into their deceptive agenda. With a straight face tell me you didn't do that Serk.  Tell me you didn't just take a half sentence in an attempt to make a point.  

Democratic socialism is a variant of socialism that rejects centralized, elitist, or authoritarian methods of transitioning from capitalism to socialism in favor of grassroots-level movements aiming for the immediate creation of decentralized economic democracy.   Most notably, democratic socialists reject the perceived authoritarian character of Vanguardism and similar ideas central to Leninism and Marxist-Leninist socialist movements.

How about you take 15 minutes to listen to what he has to say before you outright disagree with it based on your preconceived notions and a half sentence from Wikipedia.

I'm sure that wasn't what you meant to convey when you called him a socialist was it.  Someone who rejects Marxist-Leninist movements.  Someone that rejects centralized, elitist, or authoritarian methods and favors a grassroots movement to the creation of a decentralized economic democracy.

Your ideas are so far apart from his because you support Lenin-Marxist socialism?  Or is it because you are anti-grassroots movements.  Maybe it's because you are against the idea of a decentralized economic democracy, and instead favor a centralized one administered by the Federal government.  Maybe it is democracy that you are against.  The latter seems the most likely.  Maybe thats why we don't see eye to eye.  The ACA was passed by the Congress and signed by the President (who won re-election by 5 million votes).  It was upheld in the Supreme Court.  Democracy in action, and you just can't stand it.  Recall everyone!  Impeach!  That is not how democracy works Serk.  Lets pretend there is a future where there is a Republican President, and the Senate is controlled by Republicans.  I know it's a stretch, but bear with me.  If a bill gets voted on and passed, should the Democrats shut the government down because they don't like the law?  If you hate democracy that much, you really should consider moving to a dictatorship.

[Serk]

With a straight face tell me you didn't do that Serk.  Tell me you didn't just take a half sentence in an attempt to make a point.

*Putting straight face on*

I didn't take half a sentence in an attempt to make a point. I took the relevant portion of the sentence for brevity and pasted it, and went to the trouble to post a link to the entire article for anyone who wished to get the full context and delve deeper into this individual.

Socialism is socialism is communism is statism is loss of freedom and government control. It is one faction of humanity, the elites, thinking they know better than the rest and controlling their lives. It is evil. It might be the iron fist packaged in a velvet glove, but it's still the iron fist controlling people's lives, which I find beyond repugnant no matter how you dress it up.

As I said, your support of the only currently serving Senator who feels that the extreme socialist policies of today's Democrat party aren't extreme enough for his socialist views tells me all I need to know about you. That's not necessarily a negative statement, it's just a simple fact. You're a lost cause when it comes to reason or desire for freedom, and there's no point in trying to argue or debate with you. When you come from the background that the best course for human events is man controlling man, I can't reason with that, and there's no point in trying.

Good day sir. Ride safe.

[musclehead]

did he say we live in a democracy? 

[Willow]

...
Many Conservatives just love to take bits and pieces of sentences and paragraphs and cut and chop and reform them into "catch phrases" that really distort reality, but fit nicely into their deceptive agenda. With a straight face tell me you didn't do that Serk. 
...

Just so you know, Serk is NOT a conservative.

You're a lost cause when it comes to reason or desire for freedom, and there's no point in trying to argue or debate with you.

This is very true and can be applied to almost anyone, regardless of conviction, who only rants about his own political views while ridiculing the opposition.  We certainly have both conservatives and liberals that do this.  Still waiting for a Libertarian to join that fray.  I'm not sure what these people, of either side, are attempting to accomplish.  They certainly are not convincing anyone to change his or her political view.  They are most assuredly isolating anyone who holds a different view while displaying the illogical ensconced in their own arguments.

Wouldn't it be great if we could either carry on civil discussions regarding our political views or simply avoid political discussions altogether? 

[Skinhead]

Skinhead, I'm glad to hear you do not favor government shutdown as a means to affect change in the law colloquially known as Obamacare.  My favorite Senator, Bernie Sanders agrees with you.  Give a listen to his speech.  It's worth 15 minutes of your time.

THAT was a total waste of 15 minutes!

[Moonshot_1]

Wouldn't it be great if we could either carry on civil discussions regarding our political views or simply avoid political discussions altogether? 

Where's the fun in that?? ???

[musclehead]

Our National Parks, Museums, American Battle Monuments, NASA, EPA, Consumer Product Safety Commission, USDA (aside from food inspectors), Department of Commerce, Department of Energy, Department of Health and Human Services, Board of Education, Center for Disease Control, half the FDA, Department of Housing and Urban Development, OSHA, more than half the Department of Transportation, National Transportation Safety Board, Department of the Treasury, FCC, Library of Congress, Smithsonian, National Archives, Small Business Administration, are all considered non-essential as far as the budget goes.  Personally, I consider those Departments essential.  In your hatred of all things government do you really think we should do without these departments?  Do you think by shutting down these departments you are in any way affecting the Affordable Care Act?

why do you ALWAYS jump to the "H" word? we don't HATE the government, it has a vital role to play. however it has gone amuck and needs to be cut back.

[musclehead]

Republicans were not elected to shut the government down.

Speaking as a VERY reluctant Republican voter, that is EXACTLY what I voted for them to do.

Shut down the social security administration and Medicare and I bet a lot of you would be changing your tune !

I won't say those two should be immediately shut down, but they should be phased out. Those currently dependent on it should be left alone, and maybe even stretch that out to people within 10 years of hitting it. But for the rest of us, let us cash out the money we've put into those Ponzi schemes and begin the decommissioning process of them.

Yeah, since those are classic pyramid schemes there'd be some serious pain paying the people currently on it if we let the current victims out of the scheme, but I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it happen.

You're alright with the immediate job loss of 800,000 but not the immediate loss of S.S. ?

Yes. While I feel for the federal employees that would lose their jobs if we succeed in making the so-called shutdown permanent, that's a small drop in the bucket compared to the millions that have lost their careers and now only have part time jobs, at best, since Obama took office.

We can't continue spending hand over fist like we've been doing, and we can either take some bitter medicine now or some REALLY bitter surgery later to stop it. And don't start on raising taxes, if we were to tax the evil 1% at an European like 100%, we'd still not cover our current deficits... DEEP cuts have to be made. Not superficial silliness, but real, painful cuts.

Then why not deep painfull cuts to S.S. and Medicare ? It seems to me the conservatives are all for cuts as long as their govt. programs are not the ones cut.

it's probably going to happen eventually, however there could be minute course corrections now that would avert major disasters later.

[Liberty Bell]

Obamacare is the law of the land.  You may not understand what the ACA is, and you may not understand the fact that it is the law, but the bi-cameral congress has to agree on a budget.  The Republicans saying we laid out a budget and you Democrats didn't vote yes for it doesn't mean it's the Democrats fault for us not having a budget.  It is equally or more so the fault of the House Republicans that a budget that was acceptable to all hasn't been offered.

It's like the Senate saying we ordered a decent meal and haven't been served a good meal in a while and the Republicans saying well we offered you this burnt piece of rotten meat, it's your fault for not eating it.  The Senate sends back the burnt rotten meat back to the kitchen, and the chefs put it on another plate and send it back as is, expecting it to be eaten. 

Yipp, Obamacare is the law of the land... So are the immigration laws that the Obamination refuses to enforce.
How many other things are the same way? The Obamination ignores his Constitutially directed duty to in force the laws passed by Congress... Or we could talk about all his executive Orders changing Obamacare to what he wants...

Might be more like Harry Reid ordering prime rib at KFC and then getting pissed because there's nothing to eat...

Or the teenage girl with a whole cloest full of clothes bitching she has nothing to wear because daddy won't let her buy a new dress on the credit card.

Might also remind you that there wasn't a budget passed the first two years while BOTH chambers of Congress were controlled by the Democrats. So boy blunder was more concerned in healthcare than what is required by the Constitution, I.e. a budget.

Where exactly in the Constitution is healthcare a "right"?
Even though the Obamination has said that, he also repeatedly said this was not a tax, even after the Supreme Court stated it was only legal under the taxing authority of Congress.

[Mapper]

Wouldn't it be great if we could either carry on civil discussions regarding our political views or simply avoid political discussions altogether? 

+1