AK vs. AR ?

[98pacecar]

Gettin ready to buy, either an AK, errr, an  AR15.....

Pro's,, cons,,, thoughts?  

Have several guns in da safe,,, but know very lil,,,, bout either one,,,, of these...    

[Serk]

Oh boy, here we go...

IMHO the AK is the better weapon.

The AR is the better rifle.

And the AK being the better weapon is if someone who doesn't clean or maintain their weapons is the user.

I've got a... few... of each. And if the excrement hits the rotating air dispersal device and I only have time to grab one, it'd be one of the AR's...

Another fun option to consider, that I just built my 2nd of last weekend actually, is an AR chambered in the AK's 7.62x39 round.

But I guess the bigger question is, what do you intend to do with the rifle? Is this a "Because I can, just in case" purchase, or do you have a specific use in mind?

[flcjr]

I say get one of each.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Damn I thought this was gonna be a thread about Eskimos vs. hillbillies

[Serk]

There's a TON of comparisons out there, but I really like Hickok45 in general... This isn't a technical point by point comparison, but a decent comparison of the two...

AK47 vs AR15

[98pacecar]

Oh boy, here we go...

IMHO the AK is the better weapon.

The AR is the better rifle.

And the AK being the better weapon is if someone who doesn't clean or maintain their weapons is the user.

I've got a... few... of each. And if the excrement hits the rotating air dispersal device and I only have time to grab one, it'd be one of the AR's...

Another fun option to consider, that I just built my 2nd of last weekend actually, is an AR chambered in the AK's 7.62x39 round.

But I guess the bigger question is, what do you intend to do with the rifle? Is this a "Because I can, just in case" purchase, or do you have a specific use in mind?

Ya, I plan on shootin, people,,, with it...

As in,,,, home defense NOT,,,, mass murder..

Ya never know when that home invasion is gonna be in YOUR home...   

I would like to be able to take as many of da bastards out, as I can, before,,, they take me down.

This will NOT be a target practice weapon. 

More,, a loaded, leanin up against da wall, next ta da bed,,,, kinda thing.

[98pacecar]

Damn I thought this was gonna be a thread about Eskimos vs. hillbillies

Got dat same,,, mental image once I posted it,,,,,,, n' read, da title...   

[Chrisj CMA]

Neither weapon is a suitable home defense weapon for INSIDE your home.  If you are talking about shooting at trespassers on your property OUTSIDE, thats different.  The AK with the 7.62 round is definitely way too much fire power to use inside the house. 

Maybe a AR modified to shoot .22LR would be ok inside, but even that 5.56 round would go through the bad guy, the wall and the neighbors house.....you dont want that

[bigguy]

Just something to think about:

Hi-Point Model 995 9mm Carbine.


Uses same ammo as my pistol. (Ruger SR9c) Much like the AK, it's built like a tank and doesn't require a lot of love. Also, pretty inexpensive.*
Not a reach out and touch somebody gun, but will do a 5 inch group at 100 yards. My house doesn't have a room that big or a hall that long, so I'm good.
I can't imagine a scenario where I'm going to want to engage somebody at more that 100 yards, but I've got the old deer rifle if I ever do feel the need. (Remington Model 700 .243 with a 4X post and cross hair weaver scope)

* If you can find one. I checked out several dealers who said they could order one, only to find out that they were backordered until the day after the last proton decays. I finally found a gun store in Idabel Oklahoma that had one in stock, and drove up and got it.

[Shelly]

I totally agree about too much firepower. a 12 gauge pump is the best for the home, just the sound of the action will scare most intruders away.

[bigguy]

Neither weapon is a suitable home defense weapon for INSIDE your home.  If you are talking about shooting at trespassers on your property OUTSIDE, thats different.  The AK with the 7.62 round is definitely way too much fire power to use inside the house. 

Maybe a AR modified to shoot .22LR would be ok inside, but even that 5.56 round would go through the bad guy, the wall and the neighbors house.....you dont want that

+1 But even with a pistol or shotgun, it pays to think ahead. Decide where you want to engage an intruder. Probably not in a location where there are two pieces of sheetrock between your sleeping loved one and the bad guy you're shooting at.

[98pacecar]

Neither weapon is a suitable home defense weapon for INSIDE your home.  If you are talking about shooting at trespassers on your property OUTSIDE, thats different.  The AK with the 7.62 round is definitely way too much fire power to use inside the house. 

Maybe a AR modified to shoot .22LR would be ok inside, but even that 5.56 round would go through the bad guy, the wall and the neighbors house.....you dont want that

Have a 9 mil on da night stand at da moment,,, wifey has a 38 ultra lite on hers.

Still,,, wanna have one of these rifles,,,, close.

[98pacecar]

Neither weapon is a suitable home defense weapon for INSIDE your home.  If you are talking about shooting at trespassers on your property OUTSIDE, thats different.  The AK with the 7.62 round is definitely way too much fire power to use inside the house. 

Maybe a AR modified to shoot .22LR would be ok inside, but even that 5.56 round would go through the bad guy, the wall and the neighbors house.....you dont want that

+1 But even with a pistol or shotgun, it pays to think ahead. Decide where you want to engage an intruder. Probably not in a location where there are two pieces of sheetrock between your sleeping loved one and the bad guy you're shooting at.

Wouldn't dat depend on how far he got, into yer house,,  before you were, roused.. 

[Serk]

Stream of consciousness thoughts

AK:
More reliable, especially if it's being abused
Bigger round
Usually less expensive
Usually cheaper ammo, less picky on ammo
You can hold it over your head while yelling "WOLVERINES!!!!!"

AR:
More accurate
Very reliable if maintained
Smaller round BUT faster round, and the 5.56 has a much longer effective range than the 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 (AK47's traditional round) is more of a 100 yard round, the 5.56 is more of a 500 yard range. But... The 5.56 is just a .22 going really really fast.
FAR better ergonomics
Better add ons, and better options for add ons.
Better iron sights


I'll admit, I'm a reformed AK guy... used to be ALL about my AKs, refused to even own an AR. And then I bought one. Now I've built several ARs and will admit I vastly prefer the AR over the AK.

And I will concur, any rifle for inside your house defense is a bad choice, because over penetration becomes a real concern. I.E. Shoot the bad guy, and the bullet goes through him, through the wall behind him and through the kid sleeping in the next room.

But, you can also get frangible rounds for either rifle that will, by design, break apart after hitting their first target and become less lethal to anything behind it.

[bigguy]

Wouldn't dat depend on how far he got, into yer house,,  before you were, roused..  

Nope! You don't take the shot if there's a possibility of hitting a loved one or bystander. If you wait until you hear that bump in the night to start deciding what to do, please don't buy a firearm. Just call 911.
It's your house. You know it and have time to prepare for the encounter.  The alarm system you've bought (surely if you're arming yourself, you've already bought an alarm system) should give you notice as soon as the intruder breaches the perimeter. Position yourself in your predetermined spot to be sure you don't hit somebody you didn't intend to. You can get a security camera that will send images to a smart phone for around $200.
While you're preparing, set up some lights that will blind the intruder on his way in while leaving you in darkness.

[98pacecar]

Wouldn't dat depend on how far he got, into yer house,,  before you were, roused..  

Nope! You don't take the shot if there's a possibility of hitting a loved one or bystander. If you wait until you hear that bump in the night to start deciding what to do, please don't buy a firearm. Just call 911.
It's your house. You know it and have time to prepare for the encounter.  The alarm system you've bought (surely if you're arming yourself, you've already bought an alarm system) should give you notice as soon as the intruder breaches the perimeter. Position yourself in your predetermined spot to be sure you don't hit somebody you didn't intend to. You can get a security camera that will send images to a smart phone for around $200.
While you're preparing, set up some lights that will blind the intruder on his way in while leaving you in darkness.

Not a lotta peeps round here, I'm out in da woods.

Wife is only other person in da general area.

Yes, have an alarm system.  Already own more than a dozen guns, military veteran.  

N, screw 911.  

Ya call, n' die whilst da cops get offa there arses to come in time, ta load up yer body fer a trip to da morgue...

Really,,, just lookin for specific info,,,,, on these guns..

[98pacecar]

Stream of consciousness thoughts

AK:
More reliable, especially if it's being abused
Bigger round
Usually less expensive
Usually cheaper ammo, less picky on ammo
You can hold it over your head while yelling "WOLVERINES!!!!!"

AR:
More accurate
Very reliable if maintained
Smaller round BUT faster round, and the 5.56 has a much longer effective range than the 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 (AK47's traditional round) is more of a 100 yard round, the 5.56 is more of a 500 yard range. But... The 5.56 is just a .22 going really really fast.
FAR better ergonomics
Better add ons, and better options for add ons.
Better iron sights


I'll admit, I'm a reformed AK guy... used to be ALL about my AKs, refused to even own an AR. And then I bought one. Now I've built several ARs and will admit I vastly prefer the AR over the AK.

And I will concur, any rifle for inside your house defense is a bad choice, because over penetration becomes a real concern. I.E. Shoot the bad guy, and the bullet goes through him, through the wall behind him and through the kid sleeping in the next room.

But, you can also get frangible rounds for either rifle that will, by design, break apart after hitting their first target and become less lethal to anything behind it.

Thank you,,  That's the kinda imput, I was lookin,,,,,,, for.    

Good video as well..

[Psychotic Bovine]

Ar-15 is far more adaptable.  Tons and tons of accessories like rails, lights, lasers, stocks, etc.
Can have one receiver with multiple uppers in all different calibers and lengths.  Flat top for scopes, standard mil-spec sights, uppers with supressors, uppers chambered in .22 lr to .50 Beowolf.  I have even seen a crossbow upper for an ar-15.  Newest trend is the gas-piston upper that works similar to an AK so it doesn't dirty up the bolt as much.
Ak-47.  Pure reliability.  7.62 round has better stopping power than 5.56.  Bury it in the mud, pull it out, fire it all day.  Strips down to 4 basic parts, none of which are tiny.  Not nearly as mission adaptable as an ar-15, but if a horde of zombies was at the gates, I would much rather have an AK.  Not as many accessories as for the AR, but there are still some.  Sights on a standard AK kind of stink, in my opinion, I like aperture sights rather than notch and post.
I own both, mainly because I like them both, but for different reasons.  The AR is like a Lexus, tight and precise.  An AK is like a Jeep, rugged and clunky, but does it's job very well.

[98pacecar]

Just something to think about:

Hi-Point Model 995 9mm Carbine.

Interesting. 

Was totally unaware, of this weapon.

Yer right,, the price is pretty reasonable.

[.]

Damn I thought this was gonna be a thread about Eskimos vs. hillbillies

I'd put my money on the hillbillies. 

[98pacecar]

I own both, mainly because I like them both, but for different reasons.  The AR is like a Lexus, tight and precise.  An AK is like a Jeep, rugged and clunky, but does it's job very well.

In a perfect world,,,,, I too, would own both...

But, I do,,,,,,,, have a wife.......   

[Serk]

But, I do,,,,,,,, have a wife.......   

One of my greatest fears is that after I die, my wife sells my guns for what I told her I paid for them.

[bigguy]

I own both, mainly because I like them both, but for different reasons.  The AR is like a Lexus, tight and precise.  An AK is like a Jeep, rugged and clunky, but does it's job very well.

In a perfect world,,,,, I too, would own both...

But, I do,,,,,,,, have a wife.......    

 At least you're getting one. (AR or AK) I'll probably have to stumble across an incredible sweetheart deal, or wait until Serk dies, to get one. Truth be told, it's about all I can do to buy ammo these days.

[Gavin_Sons]

Why not buy an AR in 7.62 X 39 then you have the best of both worlds?

[98pacecar]

I own both, mainly because I like them both, but for different reasons.  The AR is like a Lexus, tight and precise.  An AK is like a Jeep, rugged and clunky, but does it's job very well.

In a perfect world,,,,, I too, would own both...

But, I do,,,,,,,, have a wife.......    

 At least you're getting one. (AR or AK) I'll probably have to stumble across an incredible sweetheart deal, or wait until Serk dies, to get one. Truth be told, it's about all I can do to buy ammo these days.

   BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!   

Good one..

[Oss]

I am the only one besides meathead in the club who thought it was an alaska vs arkansas
thread before opening it?

Lost mine in that same accident that MarkT had  

[The emperor has no clothes]

Damn I thought this was gonna be a thread about Eskimos vs. hillbillies

I'd put my money on the hillbillies. 

Oh I don`t know. Eskimos can be pretty resourceful.

[flcjr]

Have you looked at a Sprinfield M1A? I loved the one I used to have. Oss borrowed it and it was lossed in the horrible accident with MartT

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Remington .223

Can be field stripped with a sturdy stick or dowel.

Simple and accurate if the you buy the shorter barrel model. Rotating bolt like a M1A1, and
small and light like a 30cal. Carbine. With a magazine like a Carbine. This rifle was based on both.

[MarkT]

Just to add to the mix -

You can save some serious coin if you enjoy learning how things work, by buying a kit and assembling it yourself.  You can also build exactly the rifle to fit your purpose, and gain some pride of ownership.  I built one for a relative (won't say who) - when we were done suddenly I was a gun guru to him and his buddies who went to a private range with us to all pop some caps.  BTW, the rifle was dead on, we shot sub-MOA groups bench rest with factory ammo.  Better than I expected.  And that was with the stock trigger that came in the kit.  Didn't measure but it felt like about 5# to me.  Better than the trigger that came in another lower parts kit (DPMS) which weighed in IIRC at 7.8# before I replaced it with a Geisselle National Match hi-speed 2-stage trigger at 2.8#.  Then came the boating accident...  Some SCUBA diver is gonna love the sunken treasure if he finds them before they corrode away.

I have a little bit of a weapons background, but nothing impressive.  Was a Weapons Mechanic in the AF during the nam.  Official related civilian occupation is "armorer" aka gunsmith.  But I never built on that after I got out other than as a hobbyist: reloader, pistol shooter etc.  So I didn't have any special training before doing the following:

Lastly, you can dip your toe in the water even further, and buy what they call an "80% lower", drill and mill the fire-control cuts on it yourself, also buy a rifle kit (or buy the parts seperately) and now you have a rifle that you didn't have to go through the ATF form 4473 approval process - thus the gov't is not informed you just made a gun purchase.  Not suggesting dodging the process if you wouldn't pass.  It's just nowadays, people are getting sensitive about government lists and snooping.  I did this with the rifle I mentioned above.  Oh BTW, you can't sell or give the rifle away unless you add a name, location, and serial# embossed on the receiver you milled.  OF COURSE I did that.  Otherwise - the receiver has no markings on it, unless you decorate it with say laser engraving (did that too).  

Here's a place to get 80% lowers and the milling jigs.  There are many more ... http://gunpartsplus.com/ar-15-80-lower-faq/

Two of the many sources for kits are midwayusa.com and cheaperthandirt.com  There are many more...

I haven't looked for similar kits to build AK's.  I note however there are lots of hits with a google of "AK gun kits".

[Gunner]

I have the Springfield M1A Scout rifle.  Shoots 7.62 x 51  (.308).  That gun is not meant for home defense, but it will go through a car door, windshield, door pillar, or fender.  House doors, walls, cinder block, etc  are easily breeched.   If I had only one  choice, that Springfield would be it.  Firepower and reliability of my Springfield M1A far exceed that of my DPMS AR.

Sorry, but I love that gun!  Also, it can reach out and touch you at 400 yards.  LOL

[Serk]

 At least you're getting one. (AR or AK) I'll probably have to stumble across an incredible sweetheart deal, or wait until Serk dies, to get one. Truth be told, it's about all I can do to buy ammo these days.

Well that's good to know... At least I know if I go before ya'll, there will be PLENTY of Valks and Valk riders at my funeral!

[MarkT]

Here's a couple of arguably knowledgable gun guys at Moss Pawn & Guns, on this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdB2ng5pq-U


And part 2, same subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aoiNo8cuQk

[Highbinder]

A AK or AR would not be my choice for home defense, inside the home...my choice would be a 12 ga. Saiga shotgun, built and designed by the same people who brought you the AK...Russian made, looks like an AK and same reliability as the AK, drop it in the mud and pick it up and shoot...holds a 20 round drum or 10 & 5 round magazines....18" barrel with front and rear sight...semi-auto...loaded with 00 buck puts 180 pieces of lead in the air in the matter of seconds...might mess up your home but we're talking about staying alive, its illegal to shoot someone for stealing....

[Jess from VA]

Stream of consciousness thoughts

AK:
More reliable, especially if it's being abused
Bigger round
Usually less expensive
Usually cheaper ammo, less picky on ammo
You can hold it over your head while yelling "WOLVERINES!!!!!"

AR:
More accurate
Very reliable if maintained
Smaller round BUT faster round, and the 5.56 has a much longer effective range than the 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 (AK47's traditional round) is more of a 100 yard round, the 5.56 is more of a 500 yard range. But... The 5.56 is just a .22 going really really fast.
FAR better ergonomics
Better add ons, and better options for add ons.
Better iron sights


I'll admit, I'm a reformed AK guy... used to be ALL about my AKs, refused to even own an AR. And then I bought one. Now I've built several ARs and will admit I vastly prefer the AR over the AK.

And I will concur, any rifle for inside your house defense is a bad choice, because over penetration becomes a real concern. I.E. Shoot the bad guy, and the bullet goes through him, through the wall behind him and through the kid sleeping in the next room.

But, you can also get frangible rounds for either rifle that will, by design, break apart after hitting their first target and become less lethal to anything behind it.

THIS!!  Couldn't agree more or put it any better.  (Except I am not a reformed AK guy)

If you want to add some overwhelming firepower to your existing home defense pistols (for inside the home combat), add an 18"bbl 12g shotgun to the mix.  Pump or auto.  I have and prefer the Rem 870, but many others will give good service.  I prefer an extended mag tube for 7 over 5 rounds.  You can buy them that way, or add a mag extension to a 5 shooter easy (get a metal one, not a plastic one).

This 7 shooter is the newer of my 870s and I highly recommend it.
http://www.remington.com/en/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-synthetic-7-round.aspx

I also recommend that any standard buttstock be replaced with a pistol grip full stock (NOT just a pistol grip wrist breaker with no butt).  The pistol grip makes the gun much easier to move with, swing to targets, and will absorb a large portion of heavy recoil off your shoulder (and make follow up shots easier).  But the biggest reason for a pistol grip is it allows you to hold a man under arms one handed, and use your other hand to call 911.  With the buttstock in your armpit, and hand on the handle, you can maneuver this gun one handed with ease; much moreso than with a straight stock alone.  Again, some riot guns come with a pistol grip full stock.  Mine didn't so I added Chote.

http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/SGS/01-01-42

Now, the other question is whether you intend the wife become minimally proficient with your extra firepower or not.  Many women only fire a 12 g once, and will never do it again.  They don't just dislike it, they hate it, and are afraid of it.  

If so, or if you really want a semiauto rifle, then the the above reference to a pistol caliber carbine would my next best choice for indoor duty. There are a number of choices in 9, 40, or 45.  I would pick the caliber you already have a pistol in, and/or if you have or like a Glock, some take Glock magazines (including their 33 shooters).  You can even get an AR in pistol calibers... mostly 9mm (but will pay much more for one).  Your wife will be able to shoot any of these light carbines much easier than any 12g shotgun.

The Hi point above comes in 9, 40 and 45. (mags, 9 shots or less)


CX4 Beretta Storm in 9 or 40 (expensive)


Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 9 or 40 and can be ordered to accept a variety of auto pistol mags


Taurus CTG carbine in 9 or 40


Calico liberty
http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=9mm


The Marlin Camp carbine and Ruger PC are discontinued, but found used.

Marlin


Ruger RC (police carbine) (spendy)

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Pretty well agree with everything said here. I think I'm the only FFL holder on the board and could also be the last member who doesn't own an AK or an AR I'm embarrassed to say. 

Either one could be a good choice or a bad choice depending on your circumstances. Sounds like over penetration wouldn't be an issue in your situation which would make either gun a good choice. And if over penetration isn't an issue an AR in .450 bushmaster would likely even drop a criminal wearing body armor from shear blunt force trauma.

If too much gun is an issue then a shotgun with #6 shot to reduce penetration, the highpoint in a pistol caliber with frangible bullets or perhaps a 30 carbine with appropriate ammo would be good choices in a long gun. Personally, I think 15 shots from a tube feed .22 would be enough to stop most any criminal attack and perhaps leave less mess on your walls and carpet.

What I want in a home defense firearm is a gun I shoot well and know well. A secondary factor for me is I prefer a firearm which I can have with me without alarming a cage which might be driving by when I'm checking to see what my dog is barking about or walking back and forth to the shop. In my case, over penetration is an issue in three directions also so I usually pick a handgun.

[98pacecar]

Wow,,,,,,,,,, Thanks to all... 

Lotta info there,,,,,,,, to digest. 

[Serk]

I think I'm the only FFL holder on the board

Not NEARLY the hoops you had to jump through, but does a C&R FFL 03 count?

And 98pacecar, I won't claim to be a guru, just a fun loving gun nut, or is that gun loving fun nut? But either way, feel free to ask any questions on 'em, the easy part is getting me talking about things that interest me, the hard part is getting me to shut up about it. 

And just for funsies and something a little different to consider, this is the first AR15 I built instead of bought. It's technically a pistol, not a rifle, and because of the shorter barrel loses the long range punch of the 5.56 (Shorter barrel = slower traveling bullet) but it's still a lot of fun, and could be used inside of a building a little easier than a full size rifle or carbine:

[Detn8er]

I'm certainly not a gun guru or a gun techie of any type but if you are looking for a weapon that you can sling a lot of high power rounds down range (semicheapbytodaysstandards) then the AK is the way to go........You can find one for way less than an AR bury it in the kids sand box for a year, dig it out and sling 30 rounds down range with no problems..... Just depends on if you want real purty and tack driving at 200 yards or buttugly and accurate at 200yards....there is a difference.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Buy Both, why cheat yourself out of all the wonders in this world.