Relays

[Mase]

When I first started adding lights and accessories to my Valk we were using Pilot relays that were sold at the local auto store.  Those are long gone from the shelves but I still have the older relays working on the bike.  I need to find a source for better relays to possibly exchange the ones that are in there and rewire and condense the wiring from over a decade ago.

What/which relays are you guys using on your Valks that are weatherproof and reliable?

[hubcapsc]

I looked all over for relays that seemed like the old heavy ones
I had used seven years ago... they all feel like toys from
a box of cereal now.

I looked at NAPA and all the other auto parts stores, finally just used the
cereal box ones and am hoping for the best...

I continued looking on the innernet... I wonder if these might not
be pretty good ones...



http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-931773987-Ceramic-Solid-State/dp/B000VU56L2/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1391771404&sr=8-21&keywords=bosch+automotive+relay

As I was looking, I came to believe that the four blade ones are interchangable with the five
blade ones if your application doesn't require the middle (fifth) blade, but I don't know for
sure if that is true...

I wanted relays with the little mounting tabs on them... it seemed like every one with a tab on it
was a cereal box one...

I noticed this at rattlebars the other day:



http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-84607-Relay/dp/B001SGBZIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391771797&sr=8-1&keywords=84607+relay

Bosch, Dorman, Hella all seemed to be brands that might be worth looking at, and also seemed
like they might have plenty of cereal-box models all made at the same giant plant in China
as all the rest... let us know if you obtain ones that you think are good ones...

-Mike

[Gryphon Rider]

You guys are being too fussy about relays.  Just buy a name brand (Bosch, Tyco, Omron, etc.) of a suitable voltage and current rating and common size/shape and install it in a relatively protected area with the terminals facing down.  Lightweight plastic-bodied relays have been used successfully for decades and have proven reliable.  I've used them in my headlight bucket and under the seat for years without issues.  If they fail, pick up another one at any auto parts store or truck stop.

FYI, the middle terminal on a common 5-terminal automotive relay is the NC (normally closed) terminal, i.e. it will carry current from terminal 30 whenever the relay is NOT activated by power to the coil.  Otherwise, it will work the same as a 4-terminal relay with the same terminal layout.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Mase, there's a guy up on valwood parkway that handles a lot of electronic and electric equipment. Tanner electronics. He has had some relays in stock that I've used for my headlight relay conversion and a master pilot relay. 5 terminal form c (1 no 1nc with common "center"). He has a ton of other great stuff and reasonable prices too.

[F6Dave]

I've bought some at Radio Shack that have worked quite well.  They're usually in the $5 range.  IMO they're just a commodity item like bulbs so I get them wherever is convenient.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

I'm sure it's rare but I have had the cheapie, lightweight radio shack/auto zone relay fail on a couple of occasions. Usually if they make it for a couple of hours they'll last forever (assuming you take precautions as stated earlier to keep water out of them).  It's hardly the cost that matters, but the fact you NEED it and its failed. I'd rather pay a couple bucks more for a relay that will handle the heat and vibration.

[hubcapsc]

I'm sure it's rare but I have had the cheapie, lightweight radio shack/auto zone relay fail on a couple of occasions. Usually if they make it for a couple of hours they'll last forever (assuming you take precautions as stated earlier to keep water out of them).  It's hardly the cost that matters, but the fact you NEED it and its failed. I'd rather pay a couple bucks more for a relay that will handle the heat and vibration.

A couple of the Hella relays I replaced when I redid my seven year old fuse box recently
were heavy and appeared to be solid blocks. I broke the cheapie tab off
one of the new relays I was putting in while working with it, and subsequently, while
replacing it (with another cheapie) I squeezed it hard enough for its entire shell to
come off. So I looked at what was inside. There's a lot of stuff in there. The windings and
the little arm that makes contact when the relay is "on"...

I don't feel like I'm being paranoid to wish that I had high quality relays.

Even though it is $18, I bet that Hella made-in-usa solid-state one I posted a picture
of is a pretty tough relay.

All the stout-looking ones I saw (including the old Hellas I replaced) lack mounting tabs,
though... I wonder why that is?

-Mike

[csj]

When choosing a relay, consider all the current you're going to put through it,
now, and any future loading.

I use nothing less than a 40 amp part, just in case I decide in the future that
I want to put say 10 more amps in it.

They're not too expensive these days.

[CajunRider]

When choosing a relay, consider all the current you're going to put through it,
now, and any future loading.

I use nothing less than a 40 amp part, just in case I decide in the future that
I want to put say 10 more amps in it.

They're not too expensive these days.

If you're using 40A relays in case you add more electronics later, you had better make sure you use 40A wiring.  I'd much rather change a melted relay than the wiring.

Copper wiring (free air, which is IDEAL conditions) for 40A is 10 AWG.

Note that your house uses 12 AWG wiring for 20A... although for much longer distances. 

In my opinion, use the 20A relays (fused of course) with 14 or 16 AWG wiring... then just put in extra "spare" relays for future electronics. 

[bentwrench]

I've been been using this place http://www.delcity.net/for 20 yrs great source for wire,connectors,relays,shrink wrap,lighting tools etc. I don't think I've ever had a relay fail and price on really good shrink wrap is almost for free compared to the auto stores.
BW
P.S. they have a great selection of fuse holders and panels at great prices

[hubcapsc]

I need to find a source for better relays


The Radio Shack one is a 40A 4 pin, the Pilot is a 30A 4 pin, the other two are 30A 4pin and 5pin.

Just want something simple without having to rewire everything or go to specialty stores (especially online) to buy them.

What you have should be just fine... If you don't use the middle blade, four or five pin should work
just like the ones you have. I wouldn't think the Radio Shack was better than your old ones, or
better than the ones at Auto Zone or Advance or NAPA, I looked at all those places, and their
relays all seemed similar. They left me wishing I could find... better ones... 

-Mike

[KG]

If you don't use the middle blade on a 5 blade relay  remember it will be hot any time the relay has supply power but  is not activated.

Please put an insulated crimp connector on it to prevent it from shorting out.

[hubcapsc]

Do I need to use heavy wiring for the Radio Shack 40A as suggested?  Or can I get by with what I have been using for 14 years?

I think how big your wire needs to be depends upon how much your circuit draws, and that
whether you have a relay rated for 30 amps or 40 amps is not relevant as long as your
circuit doesn't draw more than the relay is rated for.

I like to give each circuit that needs a relay its own relay. 30 or 40 should work for
most circuits serving a single motorcycle accessory.

-Mike

[pancho]

I looked all over for relays that seemed like the old heavy ones
I had used seven years ago... they all feel like toys from
a box of cereal now.

I looked at NAPA and all the other auto parts stores, finally just used the
cereal box ones and am hoping for the best...

I continued looking on the innernet... I wonder if these might not
be pretty good ones...



http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-931773987-Ceramic-Solid-State/dp/B000VU56L2/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1391771404&sr=8-21&keywords=bosch+automotive+relay

As I was looking, I came to believe that the four blade ones are interchangable with the five
blade ones if your application doesn't require the middle (fifth) blade, but I don't know for
sure if that is true...

I wanted relays with the little mounting tabs on them... it seemed like every one with a tab on it
was a cereal box one...

I noticed this at rattlebars the other day:



http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-84607-Relay/dp/B001SGBZIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391771797&sr=8-1&keywords=84607+relay

Bosch, Dorman, Hella all seemed to be brands that might be worth looking at, and also seemed
like they might have plenty of cereal-box models all made at the same giant plant in China
as all the rest... let us know if you obtain ones that you think are good ones...

-Mike

The Hella relays are good one if you want to pay the price,,,, the main thing they have going for them is the fact that they are solid state "relays" and have no moving parts. They can withstand a tremendous amount of vibration and shock with no ill effects,,, do you really need something that good?? some just like good stuff. Being solid state, you have to pay attention to the polarity when wiring them up.

[Toledo Mark]

I have a wiring question.

Looking at diagrams above I see a terminal labeled "trigger wire".  What is that wire and where is it connected at the other end?  The other terminals I think I can figure out. 

I know I need a relay on my Cobra light bar.  For now they are turned off when starting the bike.

Thanks,  Mark

[pancho]

Hey Mark, on that relay the trigger connection is the one you would want to use to turn the cobras on and off, which is your headlight feed. I think it is the blue wire with a white marker... but I don't have the diagram in front of me. Someone will straighten me out if I am wrong. It really depends on when you want the lightbar to be on... if you want it on all the time, then what I said above,, you need to pick up the headlight circuit before the HI/LO beam switch.

Where did you get the crash bars in front of your bags???

[hubcapsc]

I wired my Cobras up like this:



I used the blue wire from my headlight as my "any" wire, and my Cobras come on when
I hit high-beam.

Relay triggers draw almost nothing, so you can hook your accessory up "directly" to your
battery (with the relay in the circuit) and control the accessory somehow, perhaps by tapping
into some pre-existing circuit. Since the trigger draws almost nothing, it doesn't disrupt
the circuit you tapped into. A good wire provided by Honda to tap into for a trigger source
is the accessory wire under the right side cover. When you use it as a trigger, your accessory
goes hot when you turn the key on.

Here's where I learned how to deal with a relay:



-Mike

[pancho]

One last word on solid state relays. Since they are basically a FET (field effect transistor) they are more likely to be damaged from EMP EFI ect. than an old heavy duty relay. Under most conditions they will outlast and outperform a standard relay,, no comparrison,, but I wouldn't be welding on the bike next to them.

[Toledo Mark]

Thanks Pancho.  The crashbars came from Champion Sidecar when I ordered the bags.  I think there was a short time they made them and I was lucky enough to have ordered them within that window.

[pancho]

They look pretty good Mark,, certainly different and rare,,, are those Tsykayu bags you got from Champion Sidecar?

[Toledo Mark]

Those are Champion Sidecar bags too.