Teenage burglars killed, homeowner charged with murder

[Patrick]

A small town MN homeowner that has apparently been burglarized several times shot teenage burglars and is now charged with their murders. Still looking and waiting for more info.

[T.P.]

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25607244/little-falls-mans-trial-2-teens-deaths-begin

[Willow]

If that (the Little Falls trial) is what you refer to, the man is no hero.  He's a murderer who finished off a teenaged girl by holding a revolver under her chin after she was already incapacitated and likely mortally wounded.  He kept the bodies on a tarp until the next day when he finally reported to authorities.

He's a man who definitely crossed the line using the excuse of home defense.  He is deserving of the death penalty.

Old new, by the way.  The incident occurred in 2012.

[big d]

While he may have gone too far I say good bye to bad rubbish. According to the article she laughed when his gun jammed. That's when he put the pistol under her chin and pulled the trigger. The article also said that the male had burglarized the defendants house multiple times in the past. Sometimes you get what you deserve when you commit crimes like breaking and entering.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

While he may have gone too far I say good bye to bad rubbish. According to the article she laughed when his gun jammed. That's when he put the pistol under her chin and pulled the trigger. The article also said that the male had burglarized the defendants house multiple times in the past. Sometimes you get what you deserve when you commit crimes like breaking and entering.

Police call it Force Continuum, they can shoot you in the back, when a felony has been committed.

At least that is what a Policeman's Lawyer called it on the Trial I sat Jury on.

The good ole boy had reached his limit.

1st Time would have been my limit.

A good throw down or two in this case, would have been handy.

Thieves never change, except the one on the Cross By Jesus.

I have a lawyer, when confronted with these circumstances, he can find five witnesses for 25 grand.

That says I was never there, and was 2,000 miles away and don't even own a gun.

His lawyer better be a good one, he could very well walk.

Moral, don't laugh at a man with a gun in his hand that you just robbed and he has already shot

you once. Pretty Dumb on her part.

A similar situation occurred in a Pharmacy, the Pharmacist had shot the would be robber once.

After trying to shoot the Pharmacist, the Thief got hit once and was down.

The Store Owner Pharmacist, walked back out and as the Crack Dealer says, Put a another

cap in his ass. Killed him. Bad for the Business Owner as his own Surveillance Camera caught it all.

25 to life for the Store Owner.

[Oss]

the Lord will judge both some day

Yep dont laugh at someone with a gun unless you have the firing pin in your back pocket

[Davemn]

If that (the Little Falls trial) is what you refer to, the man is no hero.  He's a murderer who finished off a teenaged girl by holding a revolver under her chin after she was already incapacitated and likely mortally wounded.  He kept the bodies on a tarp until the next day when he finally reported to authorities.

He's a man who definitely crossed the line using the excuse of home defense.  He is deserving of the death penalty.

Old new, by the way.  The incident occurred in 2012.

The trial for this case started this week.

[Willow]

While he may have gone too far I say good bye to bad rubbish. According to the article she laughed when his gun jammed. That's when he put the pistol under her chin and pulled the trigger. The article also said that the male had burglarized the defendants house multiple times in the past. Sometimes you get what you deserve when you commit crimes like breaking and entering.

Partly true, D.  He did certainly go too far.

As to the laughing, he's the one that says she laughed.  Could have just as well been his misinterpretation of sounds coming from her wounded body.  That's not when he killed her.  He shot her several times in the chest.  Afterwards he dragged the bodies into his workshop and at that time noticed she was still gasping for air.  That's when he put the revolver under her chin and shot her because, in his words, "a twenty-two doesn't penetrate bones very well."  I'd say all the evidence for premeditation is in his own words.

Waiting a day to call the police is the icing on someone's cake.      

[Trynt]

The guy is a retired U.S. State Dept "security engineer" and is evidently a few bricks shy of a load. He shot the teens Thanksgiving day and didn't call the authorities because he didn't want to interrupt their holiday. He completely obliterated his rights against self-incrimination with the statement he gave to police. I'll be very surprised if he isn't convicted and rightly so. Minnesota has no death penalty.

[saddlesore]

The parents and the police have some responsibility.  Evidently the teens were known for breaking and entering.  What ever the punishment they received didn't do the trick. 
If the home owner knew who broke into his house and went out and shot them, that would be premeditated.  The homeowner stepped over the line for sure but he was in his own home.  Did he know they weren't armed?  What frame of mind would we be in if we were him?

[Big Al of Tennessee]

This shooter definitely a Star for the I don't know my butt from a hole in the ground.

A better plan.

Security System.

With Siren.

With Video would do the job. As in this case, just thieves.

Bodily Excrement from fleeing thieves is easier to clean up.

He could have saved on ammo, tarps, and after the families get done with him.

Everything he owns or will ever own, is gone.

So a stolen TV, versus life in prison, and living with Bubba.

He made the wrong choice, but he may squeak by, by the hair of his chinny chin chin.

Juries are fickle. That is if he does not plead out.

In this case I would go with the jury. How much more can they tack on?

[MP]

I am all for one's right to protect home and self.  I think my comments here over the years show that!  :cool dude:

However, even I believe that in this case, the home owner went well over the line.  Read up on the story.

Were these kids dirt bags?  Absolutely.
Were they repeat offenders?  No question at all about that.

However, we do not condone execution for thief's.  This took time.  He executed them.  

He was judge, jury , and executioner.

If there is any question at all, I believe in the right to defend oneself, even if questionable.  To me, this was way over the line.

MP

[Otus]

Well, you shoot to kill when it is self defense. Make the first shot count for two reasons, 1.a second shot on a wounded unarmed person could end you up in a murder trial. 2.if you wound a person that might have a gun, that person could return fire. Personally I would not taken a hip shot when he was coming down the stairs. I would have waited for his chest to come into view. He had the advantage of surprise and was sitting in the dark, no reason to take an early shot. Sounds to me that he wanted to wound then so he could rub their face in it before he killed them.

[RDAbull]

Nobody is going to get hit with a .22 coming into my house.
9MM, .45 or .357.
Call Oss & shut up.

[Davemn]

LITTLE FALLS — On his own digital audio recording of the day he shot two teenage intruders, Byron Smith can be heard calmly uttering "you're dead," "oh sorry about that," and "bitch" amid the boom of gunshots in his basement.

Jurors in Smith's murder trial on Tuesday heard about 15 minutes of Smith's own six-hour, surveillance-type audio recording of the Thanksgiving Day 2012 intruder shootings. The courtroom was silent except for the quiet sobs of a woman in the gallery.

The crystal clear audio included the gun shots that killed 17-year-old Nick Brady and, minutes later, 18-year-old Haile Kifer as they descended the stairs to Smith's basement. After repeated break-ins to his home in the months leading up to that day, Smith had prepared his home with recording devices and himself with guns, he later told authorities. He was in his favorite basement reading chair with a paperback that day, he said, when he heard someone rattle the door handles to his house and saw a shadow through a picture window.

The Morrison County jury heard glass break, movement, then two shots as Brady groans "Oh." Smith responded with another gunshot, saying, "You're dead."

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Manslaughter at best is what they can get him for.

Recordings, what was that idiot thinking?

Cold reality, they broke in, got killed.

Castle Law, is a hard nut to crack.

You break in this house, if the dogs don't drive you crazy barking.

Duel Schnauzers. The Poodles will lick you.

And my wife will beat you to death with a wooden sledge hammer handle, hickory.

She has a .357 loaded, she is just sadistic that way.

But she only has 5 minutes of your arse, the Police Station is .5 of a mile away.

ADT has this thing about prompt attention to fires, and break ins.

If I can get the Go Pro figured out, I will tape it for your guys entertainment.

Breaking and Entering, you never know what will happen to you.

[john]

people continue to make excuses for a lowlife breaking and entering some ones home ...      
they , the intruders ,  HAVE NO GOOD INTENTIONS   ...    
make all the excuses you can come up with ... they take a chance ...  
I have alarm system ...  signs  posted        
uninvited entry ?... you decide  ...                        $0.02    

              " Duel Schnauzers "             works for me ....
my kate tells me they can hear the big yellow  come'in down the street ...        ???
           way before the garage door opens       

[Patrick]

Well, the result should be interesting.

[Pappy!]

What caliber are your Schnauzers? lol

[Valk-Obsessed]

I do not condone the actions of the two teenagers by any means....but I agree with many others here that the homeowner went too far.  Did this story ever go National?  I don't think I've heard of it before.

[Willow]

I do not condone the actions of the two teenagers by any means....but I agree with many others here that the homeowner went too far.  Did this story ever go National?  I don't think I've heard of it before.

I agree with your assessment.

Yes, it did.

[Robert]

Guns are for stopping people, like the 2 that broke in. But when you enjoy shooting someone under the neck that's murder. Guy has to have a few screws loose to gleefully admit and describe the shooting. Once stopped and on the floor the danger was gone, immediately call police and tell them to get a ambulance. You made your point, I doubt they would do it again. Taking a life should not be a easy thing for anyone. As some said in past discussions shoot to stop not to kill. I dont think the courts should throw the book at him but maybe some psychiatric help would be in order.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Guns are for stopping people, like the 2 that broke in. But when you enjoy shooting someone under the neck that's murder. Guy has to have a few screws loose to gleefully admit and describe the shooting. Once stopped and on the floor the danger was gone, immediately call police and tell them to get a ambulance. You made your point, I doubt they would do it again. As some said in past discussions shoot to stop not to kill. I dont think the courts should throw the book at him but maybe some psychiatric help would be in order.

I do think the courts should throw the book at him !

[GotValk]

I think he went way overboard.... They should put one under his chin!

[Robert]

I may have to reassess my opinion of this man and his actions. He was a highly trained individual in exactly the type of situation that he encountered at his own home. He acted exactly how he was trained to act. While cruel to most of us I wonder if he had been in Benghazi if the situation would have been different. Working for the state department and with this job description I can only wonder what position he actually filled. Security can encompass many forms in a detail like this. maybe this was one of those scenarios that we are always warned about, especially when you screwed with the wrong person. In a personal curiosity I wonder what caliber the rifle was? Any time you see a 22 being used as a home defense gun question the training of the person using it. Maybe not because they are stupid but because they are that good.


The U.S. Department of State is the lead foreign affairs agency formulating and implementing the President's foreign policy and representing U.S. interests throughout the world. Foreign Service Security Engineering Officers (SEOs) are responsible for protection of Department of State personnel, facilities, and sensitive information from acts of crime, terrorism, and technical espionage. The Department carries out this mission at over 275 embassies and consulates around the world, offices in the metropolitan Washington, DC area and other locations in the United States.

The duties of Security Engineering Officers vary according to the size of the post and the requirements of the specific diplomatic mission. At various times at posts around the world, or in domestic locations, the following are examples of the types of duties and responsibilities assigned to Security Engineering Officers. This list is neither exhaustive, nor in priority order.

   Administer and manage technical and information security programs, projects, and resources worldwide.
   Conduct technical security assessments and recommend security upgrades to deter terrorism and technical espionage.
   Plan and conduct technical surveillance countermeasures (TSCM) surveys to detect and nullify technical penetrations of Department of State facilities.
   Identify security risks, analyze those risks, and specify system requirements and procedural measures to ensure the integrity of stand-alone computers and network information systems.
   Plan and conduct certification tests, as well as maintain the security requirements for information processing and secure conferencing facilities.
   Produce a variety of written documents including memoranda, trip reports, telegraphic communications with posts; and engineering surveys or service reports detailing specific engineering services planned or performed.
   Perform extensive travel throughout the world to service overseas embassies and consulates, often in remote locations, including the transport of technical supplies and materials (and on occasion, diplomatic pouches) by airplane, train, and public transportation.
   Specify, design, procure, install, and certify equipment or products for technical security and information technology systems, such as:
       Technical security systems/closed-circuit television, intrusion detection and alarms, locking devices, access control and denial systems, countermeasures equipment, and acoustic/RF attenuation technologies.
       Computer systems/encryption, firewalls, forensics, network intrusion monitoring, and system security audit products.
   Engage in work that can, on occasion, be physically demanding.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I may have to reassess my opinion of this man and his actions. He was a highly trained individual in exactly the type of situation that he encountered at his own home. He acted exactly how he was trained to act. While cruel to most of us I wonder if he had been in Benghazi if the situation would have been different. Working for the state department and with this job description I can only wonder what position he actually filled. Security can encompass many forms in a detail like this. maybe this was one of those scenarios that we are always warned about, especially when you screwed with the wrong person. In a personal curiosity I wonder what caliber the rifle was? Any time you see a 22 being used as a home defense gun question the training of the person using it. Maybe not because they are stupid but because they are that good.


The U.S. Department of State is the lead foreign affairs agency formulating and implementing the President's foreign policy and representing U.S. interests throughout the world. Foreign Service Security Engineering Officers (SEOs) are responsible for protection of Department of State personnel, facilities, and sensitive information from acts of crime, terrorism, and technical espionage. The Department carries out this mission at over 275 embassies and consulates around the world, offices in the metropolitan Washington, DC area and other locations in the United States.

The duties of Security Engineering Officers vary according to the size of the post and the requirements of the specific diplomatic mission. At various times at posts around the world, or in domestic locations, the following are examples of the types of duties and responsibilities assigned to Security Engineering Officers. This list is neither exhaustive, nor in priority order.

   Administer and manage technical and information security programs, projects, and resources worldwide.
   Conduct technical security assessments and recommend security upgrades to deter terrorism and technical espionage.
   Plan and conduct technical surveillance countermeasures (TSCM) surveys to detect and nullify technical penetrations of Department of State facilities.
   Identify security risks, analyze those risks, and specify system requirements and procedural measures to ensure the integrity of stand-alone computers and network information systems.
   Plan and conduct certification tests, as well as maintain the security requirements for information processing and secure conferencing facilities.
   Produce a variety of written documents including memoranda, trip reports, telegraphic communications with posts; and engineering surveys or service reports detailing specific engineering services planned or performed.
   Perform extensive travel throughout the world to service overseas embassies and consulates, often in remote locations, including the transport of technical supplies and materials (and on occasion, diplomatic pouches) by airplane, train, and public transportation.
   Specify, design, procure, install, and certify equipment or products for technical security and information technology systems, such as:
       Technical security systems/closed-circuit television, intrusion detection and alarms, locking devices, access control and denial systems, countermeasures equipment, and acoustic/RF attenuation technologies.
       Computer systems/encryption, firewalls, forensics, network intrusion monitoring, and system security audit products.
   Engage in work that can, on occasion, be physically demanding.

So are you saying you think he was justified ?

[Willow]

I may have to reassess my opinion of this man and his actions. He was a highly trained individual in exactly the type of situation that he encountered at his own home.  ...

Reassess as it suits you.  The story says he installed security systems for the State Department.  Maybe he was CIA but I doubt it.

Even if he was, higher training brings with it higher responsibility.  

I don't think we make excuses for how our Marines would behave when someone crosses them.  The law is the law.  Acting stupidly and above the law does not imply the high discipline and training of which you speak.

I'm not reassessing.  Two teenagers were very wrong.  One old man was also very wrong.  Sentence the one still living.  

[Robert]

I wouldn't say justified, but not able to distinguish the proper response in a civilian situation. Wouldn't it be matter of fact when you live this scenario day in and day out. Doctors lose empathy for their suffering patients after seeing so many, how living this exact situation could he have reacted differently. 
Willow I dont agree with the actions this man took and like you said, the training has higher responsibility, but mitigating circumstances like this should be met with a little more understanding of the mans actions and the correct response to it. This was not the first time the kids broke in either. How many of us when pressed would make the right decision and go against our own training and feelings.

[Punisher]

Never ever record.   If you have to shoot, make sure there is only one story to tell, yours.   At least that is what a LEO told me.

I would've dropped them too, no more repeat offenses, but it sounds like from his own words (both to the police and in his own recording) that he was a bit sadistic in his actions.

What do you expect would've happened if the two teenagers he killed in his basement had been black?

This went national?   Wonder why what happened to these two young people did not go national?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/13/the-gruesome-story-of-a-murdered-tennessee-couple-you-may-have-never-heard-about-but-that-you-will-never-forget/

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wouldn't say justified, but not able to distinguish the proper response in a civilian situation. If you are around security and thinking protection and trained to kill, wound and stop, those who break security and threaten yourself or others would you not react this way. Wouldn't it be matter of fact when you live this scenario day in and day out. That is why his response is seemingly cold. Doctors lose empathy for their suffering patients after seeing so many, how living this exact situation could he have reacted differently. Rambo is a movie, but it does sometimes play out in real life, just less dramatic.

To me your thinking is way off. If he was a trained security specialist (I have no idea if he was) he should be even more able to distinguish what was the right thing to do. Executing them and leaving them them laying there for 24 hours was NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO ! Even a dumbass butcher from AK. can figure that out!

[Robert]

Let me ask another question, who here when shot and a gun jams would laugh at the person who was trying to shoot them? Do you think there may be a problem here or at least a deeper story? Wouldn't the normal person plead for their life? I agree that he should have called the Police though.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Let me ask another question, who here when shot and a gun jams would laugh at the person who was trying to shoot them? Do you think there may be a problem here or at least a deeper story? Wouldn't the normal person plead for their life?

Its entirely possible she did laugh, they were probably both drug users and losers no doubt. BUT we don't really know, that's his version of the story. She is not able to give her version! Don't get me wrong, I think they should have been detained(shot if necessary) and put in jail. But executing them and leaving them is beyond the pale.

[Mobile Mayor]

This guy fk'ed up in more ways than one.  We haven't got all the facts yet, but from what I see the best he can hope for is manslaughter.  There is a possibility that the previous burglaries pushed him to a point that he could plead that he was functioning under diminished capacity, but either way he shouldn't slide.  According to the other posts, he recorded the incident, and delayed reporting it.  The man is definitely unstable, and under the circumstances a demonstrable danger to the public.  Just as the two assholes he executed. 

[bagelboy]

I have 2 dobermans to scare off burglars. I got them so I don't have to hurt intruders. Their job is to hopefully help us avoid a problem. When someone hurts them, the rules change. Then it becomes Winchesters problem! I think this man went to far. I'm sure this could have been handled better. If i had no dogs, I probably would have wounded them, that's all!

[Davemn]

The intruders were unarmed. Most of the shots were fired from a range of about 6 inches or less.

[DIGGER]

The intruders were unarmed. Most of the shots were fired from a range of about 6 inches or less.

He didn't know if they were armed or not.   Sorry guys......these people broke into this guys house with evil intent......I got no pity on them.   I'm sick and tired of this crap.   They knew going in this could happen.     The guy went overboard but he was protecting his life and his stuff.   Shame on them.

[Patrick]

Any of the dogs I've had would only lick an intruder to death. Winchester and Remington [ dogs names] were drugged the first time we were burglarized and were never worth a chit after that.

Shooting to wound rather than kill is easier said than done, try shooting a human while under stress, its not like shooting a piece of paper. That said, with an intruder in my home, I'm killing him.

[Davemn]

Patrick, read the story. He had both kids down and he executed them. That's the story. I think he has a loose screw. He was soooo pissed that he had prior break ins that he said "that's enough". Covering the bodies and waiting 24 hrs to call the cops isn't normal behavior. Something wrong with this guy.

[Patrick]

Patrick, read the story. He had both kids down and he executed them. That's the story. I think he has a loose screw. He was soooo pissed that he had prior break ins that he said "that's enough". Covering the bodies and waiting 24 hrs to call the cops isn't normal behavior. Something wrong with this guy.

I did read the story. And I certainly understand the man being 'pissed'. I don't completely agree with what he did, but, if it were in my home they would also be dead.

[MP]

Patrick, read the story. He had both kids down and he executed them. That's the story. I think he has a loose screw. He was soooo pissed that he had prior break ins that he said "that's enough". Covering the bodies and waiting 24 hrs to call the cops isn't normal behavior. Something wrong with this guy.

I did read the story. And I certainly understand the man being 'pissed'. I don't completely agree with what he did, but, if it were in my home they would also be dead.

Then, you would be charged with murder too.

I cannot disagree with anything the man did, up until he executed them.  

Once he had shot them, and they were down and defenseless, it was time to call the cops and ambulance.

He took it upon himself to instead execute them, murder them.  That is why he is charged, not because he initially shot them.

And then, waited until THE NEXT DAY to call the cops!

MP