Sad, just sad

[Big Al of Tennessee]

+1,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nogrey

[paul246]

Thanks Serk.  My post was in reply to Fritz' comment about the speed at impact.  I never noticed the metric speed thing.  I translated automatically and didn't think about it.  Mea Culpa.  Plenty of blame to go around on this one.  Rider should have time to swerve, but car parked in the left lane without hazards is way wrong.  Tragic, none the less.

 I haven't swapped out the speedo on my custom BMW from the metric one (read too cheap to buy one at full price) so I'm used to doing the calculation. 

The report I read said she did have her 4 way hazard lights flashing.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Thanks Serk.  My post was in reply to Fritz' comment about the speed at impact.  I never noticed the metric speed thing.  I translated automatically and didn't think about it.  Mea Culpa.  Plenty of blame to go around on this one.  Rider should have time to swerve, but car parked in the left lane without hazards is way wrong.  Tragic, none the less.

 I haven't swapped out the speedo on my custom BMW from the metric one (read too cheap to buy one at full price) so I'm used to doing the calculation.  

The report I read said she did have her 4 way hazard lights flashing.

Speed Kills. I just wish I could remember that when I ride.

So If I have my 4-ways on, on my motorcycle and someone hits me going down the road.

Do I get some free ducks? Not making light mind you, so many situations out there, and no

two wrecks are alike.

[NW roller]

Two people are dead. What was the cause? His speed seemed to be fine till some idiot PARKED their car on a highway in the left lane. Left lane here is for faster vehicles. Sign say slower traffic move to the right. Could he have avoided it I do not know I was not there. I do not know how well a rider he was. I will say this if no car PARKED THERE he has nothing to avoid. this is not someone pulling out infront of us that we know happens about everytime we go riding this was a f@#$ing idiot.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Passed a Ground Hog today.

It was on a Fly Over Ramp from US129, to 75/40 Interstate.

No place to park so I guess he is dead now.

If I did try to help him, you guys would have me put in Jail.

Also he would have ate my ass up.

For you Notherners, that is a Wood Chuck.

Down here we call them Ground Hogs and Whistle Pigs.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Whistle Pig. Now that is just funny, I don't care who you are.

Did you all see the New Duck Dynasty Show last night?

Si won a Wood Chipper.

Willie almost pooped his pants.

[Serk]

Necro'ing this old thread for an update, she's finally been sentenced...

90 days in prison, banned from driving for 10 years and 240 hours of community service.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/18/canada-woman-who-parked-car-on-highway-to-help-ducks-sentenced-in-deaths-2-on/

[Fritz The Cat]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[old2soon]

As many of you are aware I rode the high seat of an 18 wheeler for a LOT of years all over the U S of A and 2 Canadian Provinces. While I am NOT an expert on driving I am WELL schooled in it. The female in question got off rather lightly I M H O. The father and daughter MIGHT not have died had she NOT been PARKED on the highway. Looking at the photos of her car there APPEARS to be next to no shoulder. Also judging by the photo of her car the rider and passenger were moving briskly at impact. Do NOT care how old she is or the fact she has no record. The fact remains she should NOT have stopped on the left lane of the highway. I have lost track of the furry and feathered creatures that have expired under my tires or from slamming into my vehicle. And lotsa snakes in East Texas. 90 days is telling me that a motorcyclists life has as much meaning in Canada as it does in America!  Gross negligence and stupidity on her part were the major contributing factors in the Father and Daughters death. And yes-Fathers experience/inexperience MAY have contributed BUT again-HAD she NOT been parked on highway! Trying to maintain a "space cushion" is akin to trying to remain sober while imbibing heavily of alcohol.  Especially in a large metro area. RIDE SAFE.

[cookiedough]

I think the sentence was fair although none of us really know exactly what happened.  Am sure her 4 years will be reduced to say 1 year in jail and 3 years doing community service outside of jail.  I guess ONLY if you have to slow down for ducks/geese whatever, you HAVE to if NO other way to avoid them or go around them. 

The idiot who rear ended my new truck 3 years ago should have gotten jail time if you ask me.  Yah, an accident and his fault finally paid me after 10 month of court/DMV, calling him constantly, etc. but he had NO insurance in a required insurance state, no job, no money, and driving a car worth 1 grand tops driving way, way too close taking my kids to school driving ONLY 15 mph tops and he was too damn lazy to scrape his windshield free from frost that morning taking his kids to school as well even in my kids same class.  He also lied to the cops stating he had iinsurance, local hillbilly police chief in town NEVER bothered verifying proof of insurance just took his word for it.  I demanded a police report and lucky I did because that is what was needed when I took his sorry ass to small claims court after several months of nonpayment yet again lying to the cops and me that he stated to both of us that he will pay ME for his damage he caused to my new truck.  It didn't look like much, but after crawling up underneath, he bent the bumper in as well as crushing the wiring harness.  Just wish I had on my receiver hitch on to take out his radiator as well puncturing that making one less car with a worthless P.O.S. driver on the road.

Nearly every single day going to work either someone pulls out right in front of me NOT even looking or attempts to pass me already going 63 mph in a 55 mph zone.  Where are the cops when you need them? 

[Gryphon Rider]

I think the sentence was fair although none of us really know exactly what happened.  Am sure her 4 years will be reduced to say 1 year in jail and 3 years doing community service outside of jail.  I guess ONLY if you have to slow down for ducks/geese whatever, you HAVE to if NO other way to avoid them or go around them. 

The idiot who rear ended my new truck 3 years ago should have gotten jail time if you ask me.  Yah, an accident and his fault finally paid me after 10 month of court/DMV, calling him constantly, etc. but he had NO insurance in a required insurance state, no job, no money, and driving a car worth 1 grand tops driving way, way too close taking my kids to school driving ONLY 15 mph tops and he was too damn lazy to scrape his windshield free from frost that morning taking his kids to school as well even in my kids same class.  He also lied to the cops stating he had iinsurance, local hillbilly police chief in town NEVER bothered verifying proof of insurance just took his word for it.  I demanded a police report and lucky I did because that is what was needed when I took his sorry ass to small claims court after several months of nonpayment yet again lying to the cops and me that he stated to both of us that he will pay ME for his damage he caused to my new truck.  It didn't look like much, but after crawling up underneath, he bent the bumper in as well as crushing the wiring harness.  Just wish I had on my receiver hitch on to take out his radiator as well puncturing that making one less car with a worthless P.O.S. driver on the road.

Nearly every single day going to work either someone pulls out right in front of me NOT even looking or attempts to pass me already going 63 mph in a 55 mph zone.  Where are the cops when you need them? 

Where did you get the 4 year sentence from?  She got 90 days prison (to be served on weekends), 240 hours of community service, and a 10 year driving ban.  Her lawyer is talking appealing only the driving ban.

I hope your newby cop who writes tickets for rolling stops gets promoted to chief soon.  I'll bet HE asks for proof of insurance.

[cookiedough]

I think the sentence was fair although none of us really know exactly what happened.  Am sure her 4 years will be reduced to say 1 year in jail and 3 years doing community service outside of jail.  I guess ONLY if you have to slow down for ducks/geese whatever, you HAVE to if NO other way to avoid them or go around them. 

The idiot who rear ended my new truck 3 years ago should have gotten jail time if you ask me.  Yah, an accident and his fault finally paid me after 10 month of court/DMV, calling him constantly, etc. but he had NO insurance in a required insurance state, no job, no money, and driving a car worth 1 grand tops driving way, way too close taking my kids to school driving ONLY 15 mph tops and he was too damn lazy to scrape his windshield free from frost that morning taking his kids to school as well even in my kids same class.  He also lied to the cops stating he had iinsurance, local hillbilly police chief in town NEVER bothered verifying proof of insurance just took his word for it.  I demanded a police report and lucky I did because that is what was needed when I took his sorry ass to small claims court after several months of nonpayment yet again lying to the cops and me that he stated to both of us that he will pay ME for his damage he caused to my new truck.  It didn't look like much, but after crawling up underneath, he bent the bumper in as well as crushing the wiring harness.  Just wish I had on my receiver hitch on to take out his radiator as well puncturing that making one less car with a worthless P.O.S. driver on the road.

Nearly every single day going to work either someone pulls out right in front of me NOT even looking or attempts to pass me already going 63 mph in a 55 mph zone.  Where are the cops when you need them? 

Where did you get the 4 year sentence from?  She got 90 days prison (to be served on weekends), 240 hours of community service, and a 10 year driving ban.  Her lawyer is talking appealing only the driving ban.

I hope your newby cop who writes tickets for rolling stops gets promoted to chief soon.  I'll bet HE asks for proof of insurance.

My bad, I thought someone said 4 years.  Regardless,  sentencing is fair I think.  More could have been to prevent most accidents but at the time, a lot of people do not think about doing ALL the proper things in a sudden event.  A lot of accidents could have been prevented if all involved think a little harder.

As far as the part time cop stopping EVERYONE ALL the time,  I highly doubt the police chief who has been in charge for over 20 years will give up his job anytime soon, but he is in his late 50's/ early 60's so retirement is near. 

[czuch]

1 second for every 10 MPH. I dont care. If someone takes advantage of the gap, I'll slow down more. I have to get where I'm going too. I intend to.
Smear the duck, spread the feathers.
She got off light. There may be a son or brother involved,,,,,,later.

[Gryphon Rider]

People don't learn.  Headline:

Ontario woman hit by passing car after leaving vehicle to help turtle


At least no motorcyclists were killed this time.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/06/22/ont-woman-hit-by-passing-car-after-leaving-vehicle-to-help-turtle

PETERBOROUGH, Ont. -- A 44-year-old Ontario woman is in hospital with serious injuries after she was hit by a car after stopping to help a turtle.
Ontario Provincial Police say the accident took place around 10 p.m. on Tuesday near Peterborough, Ont.
They say the woman got out of her car to help the turtle when she was hit by a passing vehicle.
There was no word on exactly what type of assistance the turtle required.
The woman from Otonabee-South Monaghan Township was rushed to a Toronto hospital with what police describe as serious injuries.
The road where the accident took place was closed for more than five hours while police investigated.

[Robert]

What I did notice is there is no shoulder to pull off on. It looks like on the left side its just about 2 feet till the wall from the road. Here there is enough room for a car is this normal?

[Gryphon Rider]

Woman who stopped car to help ducks, causing fatal crash, loses appeal

[url]http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/06/08/woman-who-stopped-car-to-help-ducks-causing-fatal-crash-loses-appeal[/u]

From story linked above:

Sidhartha Banerjee, THE CANADIAN PRESS
First posted: Thursday, June 08, 2017 03:31 PM MDT | Updated: Thursday, June 08, 2017 03:42 PM MDT

MONTREAL — Quebec’s highest court has upheld the verdict and sentence in the case of a woman who stopped to help ducks along a highway causing a crash that claimed two lives.

The Quebec Court of Appeal on Thursday rejected Emma Czornobaj’s challenge in a 35-page written decision that came nearly seven years after the events.

Shortly after Czornobaj, now 28, stopped her car in June 2010 to rescue ducklings on the side of a provincial highway just south of Montreal, a motorcycle carrying Andre Roy and his teenage daughter, Jessie, slammed into the idling vehicle. Both died as a result of the crash.

Roy’s wife, Pauline Volikakis, was on another motorcycle behind the victims, but was able to stop and avoid serious injury.

Czornobaj, who was 21 at the time, wasn’t in the car, which was stopped in the left lane.

She told her trial she wanted to bring the ducklings home.

“I just wanted to pick all these ducklings up and put them in my car,” Czornobaj testified at the time. “I know it was a mistake.”

Confronted during cross-examination by the Crown, she disagreed her actions were illogical.

“At the time, it’s what I decided to do,” Czornobaj said. “Obviously now I would not have stopped.”

A jury convicted her in June 2014 of two counts of criminal negligence causing death and two counts of dangerous driving causing death.

She was sentenced in December 2014 to 90 days in jail to be served on weekends, three years’ probation and 240 hours of community service, and given a 10-year driving ban.

Czornobaj appealed in early 2015, and her sentence was put on hold.

The appeals were heard in April by three justices. Her lawyer sought to have her conviction set aside due to what he called inadequate instructions to the jury by the trial judge.

Her lawyer, Jean-Francois Bouveret, appealed the conviction and sought to have the decade-long driving ban reduced, but he failed.

“In short, both the objective and subjective gravity of the offence allowed the imposition of the sentence imposed by the judge, including the prolonged prohibition on driving,” Justice Etienne Parent wrote in a unanimous decision.

“I recall that the period of incarceration inflicted on the appellant, 90 days to be served in a discontinued fashion, is an exceptionally lenient punishment.”

[Jess from VA]

I agree with the court.  She got off easily.

Her intentions were all good.  But her actions cost lives, very negligently. 

(Though riding into a parked car, even in the road, could also be called very negligent.)

Life is like that. 

[Ramie]

This happens here every year.  Normally no on is killed but there are a lot of accidents for idiot people stopping for the Canadian geese and their little ones to cross the road. 

I'm beginning to think it's all Canada's fault.

[ridingron]

She was sentenced in December 2014 to 90 days in jail to be served on weekends , three years’ probation and 240 hours of community service, and given a 10-year driving ban   

Served on weekends? Let's not inconvenience the women. Not harsh enough for me. I think these numbers should be reversed. 90 hours of community service and 240 days in jail,  consecutive days.

[Gryphon Rider]

(Though riding into a parked car, even in the road, could also be called very negligent.)

The rider was behind a large truck.  The truck swerved hard, and the rider was faced with the stopped car.

[Beardo]

I don't care if her intentions were good...and they weren't, just idiotic. The main thing is she's no longer on the road. We have enough idiots on the road and she's proven she is one. I would have liked to have seen more jail time, but I'm not sure if that would serve any public good. The point has been made to anyone else who would be so stupid, don't do it.

[Robert]

I think 1 year would have been better but 90 days in a prison should inject some of the gravity of a wrong decision. No amount of time will bring back the loss of life that she will always be remembered for. She has a chance for life again, taking her life in prison would not help and would essentially be a total loss all the way around.

 I am don't like the judgement but nothing would really be a good scenario, expect that it didn't happen. If you are that stupid to stop in the left lane of a highway do you really think anything will jolt sense into her, I don't think so. Maybe some day she will come to the realization of what she took away from some people and the course of life she changed for some.

[PhoenixRizing]

Whether there was a shoulder or not, doesn't matter the driver of any vehicle is responsible for paying attention and knowing that the vehicle ahead of them is slowed down or stopped. What did this car just slam on its brakes and then she got out? I think not. So why couldn't this guy see that he was coming up to a vehicle in his lane and slow down and prepare to stop. Should she have had flashers on or pulled off the road, most definitely but as a motorist your still responsible for paying attention to your surroundings.

[art]

This is a tough call by any means. Being stupid is not a crime punishable by time it prison. Good that she can't drive for ten years but time in prison is IMO not the answer. She is young and stupid. Really feel bad for everybody involved. I have stopped and helped animals stuck on the freeway but off to the side away from traffic and where It was not safe to stop I had to just keep on going an hope for the best.

[Willow]

Whether there was a shoulder or not, doesn't matter the driver of any vehicle is responsible for paying attention and knowing that the vehicle ahead of them is slowed down or stopped. What did this car just slam on its brakes and then she got out? I think not. So why couldn't this guy see that he was coming up to a vehicle in his lane and slow down and prepare to stop. Should she have had flashers on or pulled off the road, most definitely but as a motorist your still responsible for paying attention to your surroundings.

(Though riding into a parked car, even in the road, could also be called very negligent.)

The rider was behind a large truck.  The truck swerved hard, and the rider was faced with the stopped car. 

Sometimes we say really stupid things.  I hope life never puts us in a place in which others can say stupid things about us.   

[PhoenixRizing]

So exactly what did I say in my post that you consider stupid? Was it that when a person is in control of a vehicle they are responsible for paying attention to their surroundings? 

[Willow]

So exactly what did I say in my post that you consider stupid? Was it that when a person is in control of a vehicle they are responsible for paying attention to their surroundings? 

Read the explanation posted well before your observation.  Read your post.  If you don't get it I can't help you.   

I did say we.  You're not so unique.

[PhoenixRizing]

Oh I am special. It's all good though. Water under the bridge. There are times I do say stupid things. And your right we all do. It's human nature. 

[MarcusS]

This is a case of tree hugger vs reality.

In soft times, we lose our sense of survival and start looking for ways to feel good about ourselves. Today our tree hugger generations have never lost a life due to aggression or had to defend anything they hold dear.  The value of their way of life is so secure that it is assumed. They value nature more than their own kids current economic welfare. This sick idealism makes them an easy target for marketers of false environmental ideas like stopping global warming.

Back in 1975 a local officer friend of the family that new I was getting my license gave me one piece of advice.  Never react to a dog or cat on the road and that more deaths occur by people over reacting than actually hitting the animal. This information stuck and sense then I have kept my vehicle on the road. I am guilty of some road kill. I have also had to scrape several of my own pets off the road. I never was mad at the drivers as I knew the stupid animal had no business on the road.

Mid 80s my wife and I had a dog at our apartment that we would walk on a levee behind the complex along with all the other residents of the complex. Our dogs were friends so we generally let them run loose. The levee was barricaded at each end and had signs that no motorized vehicles were allowed.  One Saturday evening a dirt bike came hauling down the levee about 7PM while several of our dogs were being walked. The rider did not slow down when he saw us but just thought he would fly around us.  My dog bolted and got nailed dying instantly while the rider just tumbled down the grass slope. I grabbed my dogs body and ran incase the rider was actually hurt. With my dogs body safely hidden in my car trunk, I looked back and saw the rider being yelled at by the residents as he got back on the bike.  Even though the rider was trespassing, I would have still been liable because my dog was not on a leash. Nothing ever happened except I lost a dog and rider got an education on unpredictability of animals.

Keep it real. The next time you hear someone selling utopia with a perfectly sustainable world and not mentioning that you will need to put your way of life at risk, you will see need for our young people to re focus on the reality of family first.

Look at the American history and power.  It started to die with the creation of the unregulated EPA that has exported all the American heavy industry. We are turning into socialist techno wimps  that no longer have the ability to sustain our position in the world.  Several years ago the last lead mine in America was closed so we cannot even make bullets. About 80% of our steel is imported also.

Billions yes that is a B of your taxes  have gone to the people sponsoring the green movement based on feel good false data. From mega solar to methanol  plants that convert food to fake fuel, your dollars have gone to private for profit pockets. That is why you do not hear about all the dead birds that keep getting killed by the wind farms or the heating affect caused by the slowing of the wind behind them. Did you know that almost all the materials for the wind farms are imported? I see them coming into the Houston port on ships all the time.

You hear the term Lead Free bullets? That is a false Utopia statement as nothing is free.  Our forefathers fought and died so we could keep our powder, lead balls and guns.

Vote for life of people and not false hopes of the global bullshit artist.
 
For every gallon of milk generated, the cow emits more green house gas than your car does burning a gallon of fuel. Cow emissions are not regulated.  Should we export agriculture too?

Around 1.6-2.7 billion tonnes of greenhouse gases each year, mostly methane, are produced from livestock digestion.  If you are into data look at this:
http://theconversation.com/to-reduce-greenhouse-gases-from-cows-and-sheep-we-need-to-look-at-the-big-picture-56509

Save a duck ? May not be a good idea in the long run.

[Gryphon Rider]

Back in 1975 a local officer friend of the family that new I was getting my license gave me one piece of advice.  Never react to a dog or cat on the road and that more deaths occur by people over reacting than actually hitting the animal. This information stuck and sense then I have kept my vehicle on the road. I am guilty of some road kill. I have also had to scrape several of my own pets off the road. I never was mad at the drivers as I knew the stupid animal had no business on the road.

When I was a motorcycle riding instructor I told my students to never take drastic measures to avoid anything the size of a medium-sized dog or smaller.  Better to take its life than have it put you in the hospital or take your life.

[gordonv]

Back in 1975 a local officer friend of the family that new I was getting my license gave me one piece of advice.  Never react to a dog or cat on the road and that more deaths occur by people over reacting than actually hitting the animal. This information stuck and sense then I have kept my vehicle on the road. I am guilty of some road kill. I have also had to scrape several of my own pets off the road. I never was mad at the drivers as I knew the stupid animal had no business on the road.

When I was a motorcycle riding instructor I told my students to never take drastic measures to avoid anything the size of a medium-sized dog or smaller.  Better to take its life than have it put you in the hospital or take your life.

The only added advice along with the above, is that you have to constantly think about this, and think this way. Other wise, if/when it happens, you will react in the wrong way, and cause an accident.

[cookiedough]

tough call on say trying to avoid a deer or say bear, etc. but NEVER run off the road entirely to avoid either.  A tad bit of a ditch run I will do, but even that can flip the car and be more dangerous. 

A goose or duck or racoon/opposum, etc. is fair game not going to swerve much to avoid smaller critters.  came close though to hitting a flying turkey mere feet away heard his wings flap a few feet over my Valkyrie windshield. 

Kids need (and adults) need to be educated and told and told and told again and again that is fine to swerve a tad and more so BRAKE HARD as you can but NEVER run off the road to avoid larger critters. 

wife gets pissy with me when we go shopping in nearby town they feed the ducks near a creek and I always NEVER stop while the tame ducks cross the road doing say 10 mph tops.  I have had 100's of close calls mere inches from flattening one of those 100''s of ducks.  Geese are an issue in my hometime 1000's at times (normally a few hundred) on small pond right on main hwy. the geese think they own the road and have seen several dead alongside the hwy. by the small lake/pond.  I want to shoot a few 100 geese in town since they poop all over by the lake is disgusting and smelling but the stupid village idiots in charge do not want to get a permit from the DNR or have the DNR net them to get rid of a few 100 or more.  I talk to anyone with dogs to let their dogs run wild on the island in the middle of the small lake to chase the geese away daily.  coyota yelps/calls do not work either that was tried and NO luck they do not care.   ONLY way to get rid of them is to shoot them all or net them and put them elsewhere. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Back in 1975 a local officer friend of the family that new I was getting my license gave me one piece of advice.  Never react to a dog or cat on the road and that more deaths occur by people over reacting than actually hitting the animal. This information stuck and sense then I have kept my vehicle on the road. I am guilty of some road kill. I have also had to scrape several of my own pets off the road. I never was mad at the drivers as I knew the stupid animal had no business on the road.

When I was a motorcycle riding instructor I told my students to never take drastic measures to avoid anything the size of a medium-sized dog or smaller.  Better to take its life than have it put you in the hospital or take your life.

What would your recommendation be if coming upon this ?
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2016/06/06/a-brown-bear-stopped-traffic-on-the-glenn-highway/

[Gryphon Rider]

When I was a motorcycle riding instructor I told my students to never take drastic measures to avoid anything the size of a medium-sized dog or smaller.  Better to take its life than have it put you in the hospital or take your life.

What would your recommendation be if coming upon this ?
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2016/06/06/a-brown-bear-stopped-traffic-on-the-glenn-highway/

I would recommend a motorcyclist not occupy his hands with a camera when they might be needed to twist the throttle or pull a quick U-turn at a moment's notice.

But what I would do is get off my bike and try to get a good selfie with him.  If we could both make peace signs with our fingers/claws, even better!  After that, I would probably feed him.

[The emperor has no clothes]

When I was a motorcycle riding instructor I told my students to never take drastic measures to avoid anything the size of a medium-sized dog or smaller.  Better to take its life than have it put you in the hospital or take your life.

What would your recommendation be if coming upon this ?
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2016/06/06/a-brown-bear-stopped-traffic-on-the-glenn-highway/

I would recommend a motorcyclist not occupy his hands with a camera when they might be needed to twist the throttle or pull a quick U-turn at a moment's notice.

But what I would do is get off my bike and try to get a good selfie with him.  If we could both make peace signs with our fingers/claws, even better!  After that, I would probably feed him.