CT disadvantage

[Hook#3287]

I went on a charity ride this past Saturday, something I don't normally do, but it was a good cause and some friends were going.

As we were pulling into the second stop, about 100 yards from the parking lot, I heard and felt a large bang from under the bike in the rear tire area.

We had to park in a field, so I couldn't see the tire that well.  I checked out everything as well as I could and then went for a short ride up and down the road.  No problems.

I had a couple buddies watch the tire as I road a short distance and nothing out of the ordinary was spotted.

Parked the bike and joined everyone for about a half hour.

We left the parking lot and everything was good.

About 1/2 mile up the road, fish tailing.

Luckly, was only going about 20 mph and I pulled it over, finished the ride in the chase truck.

I'm pretty sure I hit something in the road I couldn't/didn't see because of the nature of riding close in the line.  Whatever it was got caught between the tire and the swing arm.  The only issue I've had with both CT I have.

Ruined a really good G-Force.

Going back to the Metz I took off to put the BFGoodrich 205/55 on only 1500 miles ago.

I'm blaming one of the HD's for dropping something off their bikes.

[MP]

Why would you think that a disadvantage?  Do you think a MC tire would have stood up to a road hazard better?

MP

[Hook#3287]

Because I didn't see anything in the road, I suspect it was very small. 

One of the guys that was right ahead of me was missing a rubber piece from his highway peg, so it could have been that.  If it was, I feel it would have past thru a MT and the swing arm.

The space between the 205 and the swing arm is minimal.

This isn't turning me off CT's, but I'm probably not going on any more "Rides"

[The emperor has no clothes]

Glad you made thru unscathed Bill. You got to watch out for those Harley's . They drop parts at will

[old2soon]

Because I didn't see anything in the road, I suspect it was very small. 

One of the guys that was right ahead of me was missing a rubber piece from his highway peg, so it could have been that.  If it was, I feel it would have past thru a MT and the swing arm.

The space between the 205 and the swing arm is minimal.

This isn't turning me off CT's, but I'm probably not going on any more "Rides"

I'm a P G R rider I do charity runs I ride for myself and I run D/S-205 65 16 and I hear you bout minimal swing arm clearance with a C/T. I will continue to do the aforementioned and if it costs me a tire-oh well. Road hazards are part of riding. NOBODY likes them BUT they do happen. Don't let a tire failure keep you from doing good things. BUT that's me and I make NO excuses for myself. My .02 cents and not worth what ya paid fer it. RIDE SAFE.

[Hook#3287]

Glad you made thru unscathed Bill. You got to watch out for those Harley's . They drop parts at will

Thanks Rob, it was kinda embarrassing being the only bike that had to use the chase truck, but I was glad it was there.

[Moonshot_1]

I would not think the lack of clearence at the swing arm is the issue here.
Seems to me at that point of the tire's rotation the direction is downward. (Assuming you are going forward)
Nothing should be going up into it. Unless it went up and around in the fender and dropped into that area. This would border on the defying the laws of physics.

My thoughts are you ran over something big enough to cause the damage but not noticeable enough to see. Likely an oil covered harley part.

[Hook#3287]

I would not think the lack of clearence at the swing arm is the issue here.
Seems to me at that point of the tire's rotation the direction is downward. (Assuming you are going forward)
Nothing should be going up into it. Unless it went up and around in the fender and dropped into that area. This would border on the defying the laws of physics.

My thoughts are you ran over something big enough to cause the damage but not noticeable enough to see. Likely an oil covered harley part.

I agree on the tire rotation and the physics, but, the tread slots and the size of the rubber piece missing from the highway peg makes me think the tire picked the rubber piece up and around.

Who knows what caused it except something smashed something enough, to make a noise not unlike a gun shot and damaged the tire, but not enough for it to lose pressure immediately. 

[Hook#3287]

More evidence I failed to mention.

The bike missing the highway peg part was three bikes ahead. He was riding in the left/road center line. The peg was on his right side.  I was riding the right/road side line.  The tire is split on it's left side.

[Pappy!]

A wholeheartedly agree with Moonshot on this. It is a big stretch that it would have survived the centrifugal force. Two - another huge stretch to think a piece of rubber did that.
Each to his own.................

[signart]

Looks like a defective tire maybe to me.

[Jess from VA]

Beat me to it. 

That does not look like outside-in damage, it looks like inside-out damage (defective tire).  More like a blow-out than a cut-in.

What is the age date on the tire?   

[Hook#3287]

Swing arm with two scraps and the paint on the bottom blistered/peeling right where the tires is.

The noise was not metal hitting, but a load bang.  It came from that area.  It was not from the road, but from the bike.

The biker behind me on my left, came up after we stopped to ask what the bang noise was and stated he saw nothing before or after the noise.

[Hook#3287]

Beat me to it. 

That does not look like outside-in damage, it looks like inside-out damage (defective tire).  More like a blow-out than a cut-in.

What is the age date on the tire?   

Possibly, but what confuses me the most is it held air for 1/2 hour or so and I was able to ride it right after it happened and then for a 1/2 mile after sitting.

[R J]

Beat me to it. 

That does not look like outside-in damage, it looks like inside-out damage (defective tire).  More like a blow-out than a cut-in.

What is the age date on the tire?   

Possibly, but what confuses me the most is it held air for 1/2 hour or so and I was able to ride it right after it happened and then for a 1/2 mile after sitting.

I'd bet that a mc tire would not have held air that long.

It was just a road hazard, simple as that.

Don't use that as an excuse to get rid of a CT.

I consider that as blowing smoke.

PS:   A piece of rubber will not make a cut like that. sorry, I've run too many ct's and have hit a lot of road debris.

Rubber is not going to make a bang someone riding behind you can hear.   Sorry.

[R J]

Take a good look at that tire.

On each side of that groove there is a worn spot from something rubing on the tire.     The tear above it is just plain ased old tire failure.   Tires don't split like that just for the fun of it.     That is an internal failure.

Isn't there any tire workers here?       Almost any tire shop can see the nature of the fracture.    That again, is not from a piece of rubber.

[Hook#3287]

Beat me to it. 

That does not look like outside-in damage, it looks like inside-out damage (defective tire).  More like a blow-out than a cut-in.

What is the age date on the tire?   

Possibly, but what confuses me the most is it held air for 1/2 hour or so and I was able to ride it right after it happened and then for a 1/2 mile after sitting.

I'd bet that a mc tire would not have held air that long.

It was just a road hazard, simple as that.

Don't use that as an excuse to get rid of a CT.

I consider that as blowing smoke.

PS:   A piece of rubber will not make a cut like that. sorry, I've run too many ct's and have hit a lot of road debris.

Rubber is not going to make a bang someone riding behind you can hear.   Sorry.

R.J. no need to be sorry and I'm not turned off CT's.  I've got a Taxi tire that I love and I'm only putting the Metz back on cause it's here and free.  I'll be looking to replace the Metz with another CT sometime in the future.  I'll be looking for advice with that later.

I don't know what caused it, most likely never will, but the missing highway piece was convenient for the blame.

But, I DO believe SOMETHING was wedged between the tire and the swing arm.  The way it happened, the sound, the damage to both the tire and the swingarm, make me feel that way.  

[Hook#3287]

On each side of that groove there is a worn spot from something rubing on the tire.     The tear above it is just plain ased old tire failure.   Tires don't split like that just for the fun of it.     That is an internal failure.

Not sure what your seeing, but the tire was rubbing alot after the blow out.  It rubbed while loading it on and off the trailer and it rubbed when I rode it around my driveway to get her in the barn.

The tire was purchased in the winter of 2011, the numbers on it are 3809, it has 1500 miles on it and the psi that morning was 36-38.

To my knowledge, the tire did not rub against anything.  I never felt it rubbing nor saw any evidence of rubbing.

If the tire blew out from rubbing or failure it would not have held air at all, never mind a 1/2 hour and 1/2 mile.

[Rio Wil]

There looks like a puncture mark and a tear leading away from it.....I suspect you picked up a small object ( maybe a bolt) at the puncture point, it made the trip (imbedded)in the tire from the pavement around to the swing arm where the narrow clearance let it encounter the swing arm and it knocked the object out of the tire.  That and a sudden air escape was the loud bang you heard? From that point on, you had zero air pressure but the bead of the tire stayed mounted to the rim allowing you to ride the additional distance.  Bet, when you noticed the wallowing, the bead finally broke loose from the rim.

The larger of the scrapes on the swing arm appear to me to be from the top down (per tire rotation)and might even be dented in a bit.....a piece of rubber won't do that but some thing metallic imbedded in a tire would......a dirty brown perhaps rusted bolt would not be very visible to anyone riding near you while it goes flinging through the air or on the ground...just another theory....

[Jess from VA]

That seems a very valid diagnosis.  

I did not see the tear in the tread edge as a puncture but it probably is the entrance wound, and hitting the swingarm seems a very good bet (making a bang).  It knocked the object out of the tire, but ripped the tire down the sidewall (and maybe pushed it deeper) before doing so.  

(I was thinking the jagged rip had to be a tire defect, since not a clean cut from an object.)

This is interesting because such injury probably would not happen with a narrower rear bike tire (object hitting swingarm while imbedded in spinning tire).  It would seem specific to a CT with credit card clearance to swingarm (with a puncture/object right on the tire edge).

[Hook#3287]

There looks like a puncture mark and a tear leading away from it.....I suspect you picked up a small object ( maybe a bolt) at the puncture point, it made the trip (imbedded)in the tire from the pavement around to the swing arm where the narrow clearance let it encounter the swing arm and it knocked the object out of the tire.  That and a sudden air escape was the loud bang you heard? From that point on, you had zero air pressure but the bead of the tire stayed mounted to the rim allowing you to ride the additional distance.  Bet, when you noticed the wallowing, the bead finally broke loose from the rim.

The larger of the scrapes on the swing arm appear to me to be from the top down (per tire rotation)and might even be dented in a bit.....a piece of rubber won't do that but some thing metallic imbedded in a tire would......a dirty brown perhaps rusted bolt would not be very visible to anyone riding near you while it goes flinging through the air or on the ground...just another theory....

Funny you should mention a bolt, one of my buddies lost one from his blower and had to unhook the belt.  The tire had pressure for a half hour after the "bang", I know this because I took her down the road and went hard thru the gears and after the stop, it rode right.  Your theory is plausible, the tire was damaged, but not punctured, my riding it later finished it off.

[Hook#3287]

That seems a very valid diagnosis.  

I did not see the tear in the tread edge as a puncture but it probably is the entrance wound, and hitting the swingarm seems a very good bet (making a bang).  It knocked the object out of the tire, but ripped the tire down the sidewall (and maybe pushed it deeper) before doing so.  

(I was thinking the jagged rip had to be a tire defect, since not a clean cut from an object.)

This is interesting because such injury probably would not happen with a narrower rear bike tire (object hitting swingarm while imbedded in spinning tire).  It would seem specific to a CT with credit card clearance to swingarm (with a puncture/object right on the tire edge).

Jess, my original point exactly, a MT might not have caused the object to hit the swing arm.  Maybe.

Whatever the object was, it got dislodged at the "bang" cause it wasn't there when we checked.

The best thing is using this board to understand what happened.

[Jess Tolbirt]

the tire seperated on the inside and made an air pocket between the tread and belts,, the bubble popped and made the bang but there was till air inside the tire and slowly leaked out where it seperated at...

[Paxton]

"... The tire was purchased in the winter of 2011..."
     =============================
It looks like the tire was rotting from inside out.
It was probably rollin' around the shop for a couple of years before you purchased it.
Check the tire's manufacturing date on the side wall.

[Pappy!]

BTW - Check your nutcage area for a possible contact point.

[Rio Wil]

That appears to be a puncture in the tread area.....have you tried inserting a Phillips screwdriver or similar to verify it is a hole?

[HayHauler]

He said it had a date of 3809, which means that this tire is 5 years old.  Kind of old, but not old enough to cause this sort of damage. 
Just my $.01875. 

Hay
Jimmyt

[Hook#3287]

When I get time to take the tire off the rim I'll post any new info I find.

[musclehead]

Glad you made thru unscathed Bill. You got to watch out for those Harley's . They drop parts at will

I've heard that's why the chase vehicle is almost always a truck, so the ywill have plenty of room to pick up the fallen parts    (J/K)

[Hook#3287]

Got some time yesterday to swap the tire on the rim and did a little more inspection.

Found this on the inside of the fender.




The inside of the tire is in excellent condition, except for the tear, that is (now) obviously a foreign object puncture.

So in hind sight, IMHO, the CT held up better than a MT would have with the puncture part, but the object might have cleared the swing arm, or I might not have hit it at all, if I was riding a MT.

I liked the look of that G-force, but it handled very differently than a MT, or even the Taxi Tire I'm running on a different bike.  When I run the Metz out, I'll be looking for a tire somewhere between the Taxi Tire and the G-force in width and height.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Bill , I've been running a Yokohama Aid Ascend 195/60 for about 6k so far. I like it just fine. I was a little leary at first because it's not a symmetrical tire. But I haven't been able to notice a difference from the symmetrical tires I've run.

[Hook#3287]

Bill , I've been running a Yokohama Aid Ascend 195/60 for about 6k so far. I like it just fine. I was a little leary at first because it's not a symmetrical tire. But I haven't been able to notice a difference from the symmetrical tires I've run.

Hey Rob;

This it?

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/tires/yokohama/product/submitProductSize.do?gclid=CLeTyqvJ5b8CFa_m7Aod0x0AYg&pc=43818&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla&s_kwcid=AL!3693!3!40821561131!!!g!45193407011!&ef_id=U9T7KQAAAZsW5tBz:20140727131417:s

Looks good.

Thanks;

Bill

[The emperor has no clothes]

Bill , I've been running a Yokohama Aid Ascend 195/60 for about 6k so far. I like it just fine. I was a little leary at first because it's not a symmetrical tire. But I haven't been able to notice a difference from the symmetrical tires I've run.

Hey Rob;

This it?

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/tires/yokohama/product/submitProductSize.do?gclid=CLeTyqvJ5b8CFa_m7Aod0x0AYg&pc=43818&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla&s_kwcid=AL!3693!3!40821561131!!!g!45193407011!&ef_id=U9T7KQAAAZsW5tBz:20140727131417:s

Looks good.

Thanks;

Bill

Yep that's the one. Wish I knew how to do this linking and picture thing like the rest of you guys  . But yeah I'm liking this tire good. I honestly can't even notice that it's not symmetrical when riding. But I'm not Kenny Roberts either

[CajunRider]

I ran a Yokohama Avid H4S for a while.  It handled well and stuck to the road like glue.  The only down side was very short life.  I only got somewhere between 15K and 20K out of it.  In the long run, I didn't really mind the short life.  It was a cheap tire and replacing it gave me a good reason to check splines. 

I don't know the difference between the one above and the H4S... but I figured you may want to hear from another Yokohama user.    

[Hook#3287]

Wish I knew how to do this linking and picture thing like the rest of you guys  tickedoff

Copy and paste.  Go to the web site you want to post here and copy the address.   Highlight it, hit copy, go to your reply here and paste it.

but I figured you may want to hear from another Yokohama user.

Absolutely 

[Rio Wil]

I have been quite happy running Pirelli P4's in a 205-65-16 size.  The first one (pictured on the left below) ran 60K miles, the second ran 25K and had a blowout (big bang) with a hole big enough to to insert a #3 phillips, (ran that tire on the freeway for 8 miles, even stopping to pay a toll before finally deciding there was something amiss), pulled into a Starbucks just off the freeway and finally felt it wallow enough to know what happened.  Inserted two string plugs to close the hole, aired it up to 30 psi and rode 30 more miles home. I was a bit concerned about a 780 treadwear rating, but have found no hint of a traction issue in freezing, , sand, gravel,(other than expected) rain and paved surfaces. No qualms about the twisties and can't detect any difference between left and right curves due to the a-symetrical tread design. This is my rear tire of choice for as many years as I can find one......
At about 45-50K the tire was requiring a bit more heavy handed pressure on the handlebars due to the flat spot wearing across the tread.....I will probably replace the currant one at the 45K mark just because of that.
The third P4 has about 15K on it now and should be good for another year to 45K.

[Hook#3287]

Rio Wil;

Thanks for the write up, that new one looks healthy. 

45K is some seriously decent mileage.