Hearing Aids

[solo1]

I'm on my second set of hearing aids and one has crapped out so I'm in the market for a new st (again)
I think that it's very close to a scam and prices are through the roof.  Unfortunately, i can't hear conversations worth a d*** without them. They do help. I'm really prejudiced against them tho because of the prices. It's similar to the pharmaceuticals with their new drugs, IMHO.  All kinds of promises and high prices.

You cannot find the true performance data on hearing aids.  Instead there are all kinds of buzzwords to explain why 'my product is better'  I also found that when the aid goes bad,  the price to repair is far more than they are worth.  Just like computers, it forces one into buying new and going through all the bullshit again to arrive at something that will work at the lowest price.

I have found a local who has the lowest prices of a supposedly good product.  He's a rider so that makes it  motorcycle related.  It must pay good as he has two of the latest full dress completely equipped Harleys and drives a new car and he's just a small time operator.

Many years ago I tried selling hearing aids and it was purely a racket then. Probably not now but it seems like it. Today, from what I can find,  actual cost for hearing aids run abut 200-300 bucks. Add ALL of the overhead and an aid that cost 1000 bucks to the dealer will sell for 2500-3000 dollars.  That's hard to swallow.

I might be completely wrong on this but it seems to me that if the cost/profit was lowered dealers could sell a lot more aids resulting in more profit with more customers.  There are millions out there with hearing losses that can't afford new aids at today's prices.

Jes bitchin'

[Jess Tolbirt]

for 14.95 you can get the million dollar man ones...rechargeable and you get two of them,,also if you order today they will double your order..

[Patrick]

I don't remember, are you a veteran ?

I know fellas that get them at the VA, and, with most their hearing loss was not service related.

[Oss]

while my dad was legally blind he got glasses and hearing aid at VA about an hour north of my house

Only thing is WITH those glasses he was able to see so the VA said you no longer are eligible for glasses if they break

WTF

sorry for the hijack Wayne, but try the VA out

[mike72903]

I've worn hearing aids (now have a cochlear implant on the right side) for 45 years.  It is still a racket as far as I'm concerned.  New digital aids are sold at various price points depending on the features enabled by the seller.  Generally 2500 to 4000 dollars depending on features enabled.  Now the seller will encourage (pressure) you to get the added features, many if not most will not actually be any help.  An easy 1000 to 2000 dollar profit over the "basic" price.  So an easy quick 1 or 2 thousand profit for the 10 seconds it takes to enable the features.  My advice is to go to a Costco audiologist.  They can sell you a full featured digital aid for a bit more than it costs an independent audiologist to buy the basic model.
http://thehearingblog.com/archives/2700#.Ux0_JChTQcc If Costco is not available to you you're better off going to a medical facility that dispenses aids instead of an independent.  Price will likely be better and care and testing much better.

[indybobm]

Solo1, I absolutely agree with you. When my Mom was alive, I went through the hearing aid price structures and could not believe it. With today's technology there is no way hearing aids should cost what they do. When you consider the problems people have with their expensive hearing aids it is unbelievable. If other electronic devices were like this, TVs would cost $$40,000.

[solo1]

I didn't want to get into mentioning the VA.  I'm on my third try to get compensation for my hearing loss with them.  Twice I tried with the help of an American Legion rep.  Both times i was refused because my records were destroyed in the St. Louis fire.  They keep saying "Prove it" and won't even give me an exam.

It pissses me off.  i served in Korea in a war zone in 1953.  The VA keeps telling me since I served as an Xray tech, ( i didn't) i wasn't exposed to noise. They are full of it.

This is the third time. This time, on my own, I sent the VA the results of a scientific test acknowledging permanent hearing loss can be due to firing high powered rifles which I did.  I qualified with the M1 with NO hearing protection and came away with permanent tinnitus.

They are still dragging their feet and yesterday, I sent a letter to my Senator, Dan Coats (NOT a Democrat!) detailing my problem with the VA.,  maybe that'll help.

I just recently was finally admitted into the VA because they evidently dropped the means test that kept me out.  

[solo1]

I've worn hearing aids (now have a cochlear implant on the right side) for 45 years.  It is still a racket as far as I'm concerned.  New digital aids are sold at various price points depending on the features enabled by the seller.  Generally 2500 to 4000 dollars depending on features enabled.  Now the seller will encourage (pressure) you to get the added features, many if not most will not actually be any help.  An easy 1000 to 2000 dollar profit over the "basic" price.  So an easy quick 1 or 2 thousand profit for the 10 seconds it takes to enable the features.  My advice is to go to a Costco audiologist.  They can sell you a full featured digital aid for a bit more than it costs an independent audiologist to buy the basic model.
http://thehearingblog.com/archives/2700#.Ux0_JChTQcc If Costco is not available to you you're better off going to a medical facility that dispenses aids instead of an independent.  Price will likely be better and care and testing much better.

Yes, i've been looking into Costco too. The experience of fitting hearing aids there properly seems to vary from poor to excellent.  Their prices tho, as you said, are more reasonable.

As for going to a medical facility. no way.  Most of these hearing aid sellers seem to feed on bragging about their quasi association with medical doctors. That automatically justifies charging even more outrageous prices.

Which reminds me of another thing. Cleaning the wax from the ears should be simple.  However, if I go to a hearing aid place, they charge plenty and it's not covered by insurance.  If I go to the doctor, I must make an appointment to see him so he can check out my ears before the nurse cleans them.  Thsi seem to be a bIG deal but at least the co pay kicks in on insurance.

For the guys out there, who think that loud pipes saves lives, maybe they believe it, but sooner or later, they will go through life saying "Huh?" all the time or have to get hearing aids and the joke will be on them. There, motorcycle related.

[Patrick]

Well, I understand your frustration. Hearing protection was pretty much nonexistent back then, and, not even that long ago.
Tinnitus is a bitch. [ mine scream ].
As far as cleaning, what do you use ?  I just use hydrogen peroxide and have to use it fairly often.

[art]

Just tell people to speak up or shut up. This is the truth,I did that with my wife about ten years ago during an argument in walmart parking lot. I was mad I couldn't stand it anymore because she would get mad at me for not being able to hear,well DUH. I can't afford them hearing aids. It's a bitch getting old . I can hear but I'm tone deaf due to working in a machine shop for 50 years.

[Mapper]

I've got hearing aides, and found that conversations are more interesting without them.

Also, not used to all the background noise, so I don't wear them.... also, they don't get rid of the ringing in the ears.

[R J]

Wayne, I got my aides through the VA hospital.

So far no cost and they even gave me a years supply of bateries for them.

I went through the Service Rep and he worked wonders for me.

Too bad you don't live down here, I'd lay $$$$ he could get you fitted and out the door if not free, almost free.

[Fritz The Cat]

I'm in the process of getting hearing aids through the VA. It's been a hassle so far because the civilian outfit never contacted me like they were supposed to so I had to go back to the VA and get them to resubmit the paper work.

On a related note, I know a fellow vet who has the hearing aids but doesn't wear them. He says life is more peaceful when he can't hear.

[old2soon]

Got mine thru the V A and none/zero/nada problems getting them. The Nurses at the West Plains Mo V A facility-22 miles from my house-cleaned my ears 2 days before my exam. Then on to Poplar Bluff Mo. V A hospital-100 miles from my house-for the hearing test AND on the same day the molds were cast of my ears. That silicone was ice cold. 2 weeks later back to Poplar Bluff Mo. for adjustment and tuning. The tech that did my work said if those hearing aids had come out of the store he used to own they would have been $4000.00 to $5000.00 retail. NO cash out of pocket for me other than the expense of 444 miles of driving. And I rode the Valkyrie for those 444 miles!  Good luck Wayne I hope and PRAY they get your V A paperwork sorted out in your favor. Not your fault that storage facility in St Lou burned. RIDE SAFE.

[solo1]

RJ, no problem for someone ( and rightfully so) who has 5 Purple Hearts and good records.

My records were burned plus I was one of those REMF's even tho I served in a combat zone.  It does piss me off though to get no action from the VA.

On another note, I worked with sound in my job. (dbA, sound levels, etc) and I do know that if your ears don't hear the frequencies that make you understand conversation (3k -4.5k roughly) the brain gets lazy and becomes sound illiterate.  i hate to admit it but it is true if you go long enough you'll never be able to understand conversations even with hearing aids.

My comprehension has really improved from wearing hearing aids even tho they are a PITA.  I hated the aids, too loud, crap in restaurants, etc but i'm glad that I got them. My meetings are no longer filled with 'Huh's? and a vacant stare as I acted like I heard everything.

[Hooter]

Wayne, I got my aides through the VA hospital.

So far no cost and they even gave me a years supply of bateries for them.

I went through the Service Rep and he worked wonders for me.

Too bad you don't live down here, I'd lay $$$$ he could get you fitted and out the door if not free, almost free.

Mine cost me $,4600.00 outa pocket. Maybe you didn't do this (?), but we qualified without hearing protection back in the day. Left the range and it sounded like a bell ringing for the rest of the day. Never thought much of it till later years. How stupid! I'm right handed and my rt ear is not so hot.
Hearing aids are great to have but even in a noisy crowded room it is till difficult. I'm with Solo, this is a racket and just to get one fixed cost around $300.00 if not more.

[Jess from VA]

Wayne, I'm sure you know this but (esp with fire-related records) you need a private audiogram (at your expense) that contains an opinion that current loss is AS LIKELY AS NOT due to service exposures and not post-service employment/hobby (shooting/motorcycles/yada) exposure, or simply age.  

With your claim, VA should give you a VA audiometric exam with a request for the same opinion, but with past denials, they probably will not give you (another?) VA exam.  The problem in your case is the number of years you have been separated from service without objective evidence (other than your statements) of continuity of hearing loss symptoms from way back.

It is easier to get a private audiologist to provide an opinion that current hearing loss is AS LIKELY AS NOT causally related to incidents of service, than an opinion that it is definitely related to incidents of service.  The VA disability system works on the tie-goes-to-the-runner burden of proof, so if the evidence for and against a claim is in relative equipoise (roughly equal for and against), the vet is supposed to win the claim.  Thus the AS LIKELY AS NOT opinion is all that is necessary.

Besides evidence of hearing loss during service (records destroyed) (and back then testing was just spoken and whispered voice, hardly scientific, not audiometric examination), the next best evidence would be any audiograms you might have had conducted in the years following service, like for employment.  Or simply your own subjective complaints of hearing loss/chronic tinnitus documented in private medical records from way back.  If there were any, and if they could be located.  Doctors retire and die and their records simply disappear.

If your claim for hearing loss has been previously denied, and the denial final (appeal times have passed), then you generally need NEW AND MATERIAL EVIDENCE TO REOPEN THE CLAIM.  A current private audiometric exam with opinion in your favor is exactly the new and material evidence you need to reopen such a claim.  Even with such an opinion, you likely would then be referred for a VA audiometric  examination, also with a request for an opinion.  In my experience, once you have a private opinion in your favor, it is much more likely a VA audiologist would (perhaps grudging) concur.  Again, an AS LIKELY AS NOT opinion is easy to give, private or VA.

That said, you often hear stories of non-service connected (hearing loss) vets getting free hearing aids at some VA medical centers (yet not at others).  If you are service connected for any VA disabilities at a 50% combined disability evaluation, then they are supposed to provide you with medical care for anything/everything, including hearing aids.

I have never been able to discover why some VA medical centers (VAMCs) seemingly provide hearing aids to some non service connected vets and not to others, but I suspect that guys who have spent years in and around VAMCs get taken care of better than guys who have only ever been seen once or twice in their lifetimes.  And I suspect the VAMCs in the bigger urban areas (with bigger budgets) are simply more liberal than those out in the heartland which are more likely to follow the actual rules.

I know this subject is upsetting to you and my post is not intended to add upset, just help if possible.

And BTW, DAV and PVA (you don't have to be paralyzed to sign up with them) are the two veteran service organizations (VSOs) that have the very best reputations for well trained service reps among all the other VSOs (esp the Legion and VFW).  The National Service Reps for DAV and PVA permanently assigned to appeals before the BVA in DC are generally much better and more experienced than new hire attorneys for the Board itself.  Of course, it really comes down to the actual guy you have helping you, but on average DAV and PVA are the best outfits out there.

Please don't sick the Legion and VFW on me.

Finally, even if service connected, you have to be nearly totally deaf to collect any compensation (monthly payment) at all.  But given the cost of private hearing aids, most vets don't give a damn about VA comp, they fight for service connection for the hearing aid benefit alone.  And the predictable result that there are probably a hundred thousand SC hearing loss claims pending with VA at all times.

[Airedale]

The wife says I have selective hearing and hear only what I want to hear and she is basically right. I got fitted for hearing aids a few years ago, right after I got them in the wife and I decided to go out to eat.

In the restaurant I soon discovered right off the bat what I had been missing as far hearing went. The clinking and clanking of dinnerware, dishes and glasses along with all the cackling of the other patrons, the din drove me nuts LOL!

After a few days of experience with these things and I went into my selective hearing mode. For the most part I leave them out because I like relative quiet most of the time. I will put them in my ears when I think I really need them for something important or sometimes when watching something on TV I am really interested in. I do like wearing them when I am out hunting.

Al

[solo1]

Thanks Jess that was good info but not something that I wanted to hear.

I'm not seeking to blame the American Legion or anyone including the VA.

This all originated from the loss of my records.  I even tried to recently locate my records through my employment with the VA in Ft. Wayne as an Xray tech in 1955.   Those records were also destroyed.

I think that I'll wait but give it up for a lost cause.  It's too bad that I waited so long to get into the VA because I felt that other vets needed their services worse than I did.

thanks again, Jess

[Jess Tolbirt]

i cant get into the VA because they say i make to much money..

[Jess from VA]

Glad to help Wayne (and that goes for any veteran on the Board).

If you ever have any questions about this or anything VA related, send me a PM or a phone number and tell me when to call.

I'll give you another idea, next time you deal with VA, tell them you know they provide the best up to date hearing aids available for all service connected veterans;  including replacing perfectly working older models with new and improved models.  Tell them you would be happy to have any used (but working) aids they intend to just throw away (or recycle) (and mum's the word).  This is not begging, just creative advocacy.  Best done in the VA audio clinic itself, just drop by.  Nothing to lose but a little pride, and you never know what might happen.  Not a discussion to have with VA adjudicators (Decision Review Officers), at all.

So what if they aren't a perfect fit?  You only need them on occasion anyway.

My dad was never hard of hearing much at all, but when dealing with asshats in the commercial world, he often became hard of hearing, making them repeat and go ever louder.... and my mom saying shame on you, and me LMAO, quietly.  The creative use of an ornery streak can net positive results, as well as pure devilment to the deserving.

[Jess from VA]

I can't get into the VA because they say I make too much money.

Jess, the VA medical system is the largest in the Country.  In the years just before I left VA, and development of Obamacare, and in transferring retirees (and their dependents) who were promised medical care for life with military hospitals over to VA, VA healthcare morphed into a form of national veteran health insurance.  

But for non-service connected veterans (veterans without disabilities directly related to military service), there is means testing to get into that system (probably both annual income and net worth).  But for disabilities directly related to service  (and officially granted service connection) you get both monthly compensation (if rated high enough) and medical care for that disability regardless of your income and/or net worth.  And once you have at least a 50% combined disability evaluation, then full medical care for everything/anything, even not service connected.  I do not have much of any experience with this VA medical care as insurance system.... it was not something I ever saw an appeal for during my time at the Board of Veteran's Appeals.

On my small pension, I might qualify (if my net worth was not too high), but I took a good Fed Civil Service health plan into retirement, and I'm keeping it.  But if I ever become destitute in my old age, VA will be there for me, probably, maybe.

Also, any qualified veteran who served at least one day of active duty during a period of war is eligible for a strictly means tested pension.  Even a low monthly social security check disqualifies you for it, but if destitute, any qualifying veteran can receive some $6-800 a month.  Not enough to live, but probably enough to feed and clothe yourself.  

There are also a couple old soldiers homes in the VA system.  Every year at the Board in DC, everyone brought in (mostly new) warm clothing, coats, hats, gloves and personal necessities, and we trucked it over to one of the homes at Christmas.  Some of those poor old gents were just plane threadbare.

http://www.defense.gov/specials/heroes/history1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_soldiers%27_home

[mike72903]

[\quote]
As for going to a medical facility. no way.  Most of these hearing aid sellers seem to feed on bragging about their quasi association with medical doctors. That automatically justifies charging even more outrageous prices.
[/quote]

I understand, they will do anything for a profit.  I was referring to an actual medical clinic associated with a hospital that has an ENT clinic with audiologists on staff.  Prices seemed reasonable but that was a few years ago so maybe things have changed and their all getting on this gravy train.

[santa]

Bought my wife the best set of hearing aids that Costco had $1940.+tax.

2yr replacement warranty for anything, even if you lose them. Third year free repairs.
Includes a remote control to change modes for restaurants, concerts, or conversations.
Free adjustments and cleaning as long as you have them.
90 day trial period, if you don't like them for any reason you get ALL your money+ tax back, no questions asked.

Wife says they work great, I can tell because I don't have to put cotton in my ears when she is watching TV.

I and my wife give Costco hearing aids a positive +10 review.

Santa

[BnB Tom]

I've got hearing aides, and found that conversations are more interesting without them.

Also, not used to all the background noise, so I don't wear them.... also, they don't get rid of the ringing in the ears.

  Frustration with and without hearing aids is becoming very common.

First let me say hearing aids do NOT repair tinnitus.  They merely amplify the damaged frequencies...  when adjusted properly.

Anybody know what a graphic equalizer is?  A good hearing aid is nothing more than an amplifier with a graphic equalizer built in to it.

  Therefore, it is VERY important that they be fitted properly.

AND, the longer you have lived with tinnitus and/or poor hearing, the longer it will take for you to get used to the "NEW" sounds that you have been missing.  

  I have both tinnitus AND mild loss of hearing (age related ).

I have been wearing hearing aids for about seven years and love em    I enjoy music AGAIN.  

  If you think that sticking expensive  devices in your ears will give you instant 16 year old hearing, you're going to be so disappointed that you will probably stop wearing them.  

  You must be committed.  AND your audiologist must be dedicated in fitting the devices to you.

              You must WANT to hear words and music better.

 Treat your new hearing aids like any other prosthesis.
                                       Time and determination will get you there.

              They are not natural.  They are not what you were born with.  They are an appliance.
                  In fact.  They are an aid.  Not a replacement for your OEM  hearing.
  
              BUT…  they can improve your quality of life.    

[Jack]

what did he say??????????????


I have had a phonak aide for about five years.  I hate wearing one and it cost about $1700 but I have trouble understanding some folks without it.  Of course, some folks I will never understand.

[solo1]

Thanks everyone, especially to Santa.  I'm going to take a look at Costco's hearing aids.

BTW the last post is also spot on.  Aids do not get rid of tinnitus. The longer you go without hearing aids the harder it will be to help your hearing.

Hearing aids are, imho, a necessary evil.  They only help and they are too expensive