Anybody hear about this???

[robin]

http://www.youngcons.com/dont-travel-state-concealed-carry-permit/

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I didn't know this but it would have made no difference to me . On the ride through Maryland last year ( Mason / Dixon Ride ) I know of at least 4 from The Great State Of Tennessee that was armed the entire trip.

[Gavin_Sons]

If I was on that ride I would have had mine too. There really needs to be a national permit issued so you can carry in every state. It should be a few weekend training class where you learn the laws and go out to the range and pass a shooting test with every gun you will be carrying. Say 25 feet 6 rounds in the body cavity. Id sign up for that. I pretty well take mine everywhere but work, federal buildings and school property.

[old2soon]

THAT'S why I want to know BEFORE/IF I go to my brothers place in Illinois after Inzane this year. Going North-avoiding The Land of Lincoln-I can C C all the way up and back again avoiding Illinois. BUT the rub is-my brother-resides in Illinois!    And I like hanging out and riding with my brother. Read some of the letters after the post and Missouri USED to have the C C W info on the license. It Is now a seperate piece of plastic and C C info not SUPPOSED to be on the drivers license. Say I am stopped in Illinois on my weapon is broke down and magazines unloaded and everything stored away from everything else-am I legal? RIDE SAFE.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Say I am stopped in Illinois on my weapon is broke down and magazines unloaded and everything stored away from everything else-am I legal? RIDE SAFE.

Might as well have a stick or rock.

[old2soon]

Say I am stopped in Illinois on my weapon is broke down and magazines unloaded and everything stored away from everything else-am I legal? RIDE SAFE.

Might as well have a stick or rock.

     And I do know bout askin forgiveness versus askin fer permission BUT at my age I DO NOT want to lose any time left to me in jail. cursed communistic state of Illinois defied the Supreme Court and when they finally enact C C W it's so durned restrictive AND they WILL NOT recognize other states C C W permits.  Wonder what Lincoln would think were he alive today? RIDE SAFE.

[sandy]

AZ's CCW does not list any firearms. You can have a CCW and not even own any. How did the MD police know exactly what they were looking for? I presume they do a license plate search while traveling, even on out of state plates. Maybe I'll avoid MD on my trips back East.

[Jess from VA]

The article does not say how the guy was singled out for stopping, just says that he was.  I do not believe the States share CCW lists with each other, thou I would not be surprised if certain neighbor states did share such info.  VA/DC/MD do share traffic, warrant and parking ticket information, but I don't know about CCWs (nearly impossible for the avg person to get a permit in DC or MD).  I seriously doubt MD has access to FL permits.  But FL is a big permit state, the first shall issue state, and issues many non-resident permits which people get to add states to their reciprocity list.  So maybe the FL plate was all it took (still a shot in the dark, not everyone in FL has a permit).

And for general stops with no PC or articulable suspicion, they can do a quick look around inside the passenger compartment for weapons, but not a full blow search (but they can pat you down if they make you exit the vehicle/bike; also not usual).  But if they do, and find an illegal (in MD, a loaded firearm with no MD permit), you will get busted anyway, then have to fight your case in Court.  

I doubt all MD cops would do this, but in close to DC, or Baltimore (or anywhere in-between), anything could happen.  You would have a pretty good case of unlawful search, but you would have to hire a MD shyster (several thousand dollars) and appear in MD courts (several times) to win.  And you'd still go to jail and have to bond out before returning for a preliminary exam and trial.  And even if you won, they'd probably never give your pistol back.  Even if you won, you'd be out thousands of dollars in legal, court, travel, food, lodging costs, and your pistol (it wouldn't much feel like winning).

I stopped going to DC or MD for almost any reason some years back for this and other reasons (there are other states I feel the same about, but I have no need to ever go to to them at all).   If I do go to MD, I try to unload and two-container pack ammo and pistol separately, as if transporting with no permit (from lawful place to lawful place).  

Packing a loaded firearm illegally in or across a no-no state is much safer if packed down in the bike (and if riding in a group), but I would never pack it on my person, esp if traveling solo.  Even if you dotted your I's and crossed T's and never gave anyone any reason to be pulled over, a guy could knock you off your bike, and there you are talking to cops and medics with a gun on your hip in an unfriendly jurisdiction.  Or you could get pulled over on pretext, just for having an out of state tag... it happens.

[Chrisj CMA]

The only thing that sounds strange to me is that Florida does not require handgun registration and guns are not detailed on the concealed carry permit.  In fact its not even a  "gun" permit in FL, its a concealed "weapons" permit and the statute says knives and billy clubs are legally concealed weapons as well as guns.  Could just be in the wording.  All an officer has to do is run the license and it will tell them if the driver has a CCW.  I cant see how they knew about the type of gun, however, maybe they didn't really know that.....just became part of the story.

[signart]

Thanks to Maryland's strict gun laws, the state of Tennessee will be getting a state of the art Beretta gun factory. New $45 million dollar plant, 300 new jobs and all that goes with it in the city of Gallatin. (Pop. 30,000).

[fudgie]

To many holes in tht story for me to believe it.

[Pete]

Often the Concealed Carry Permit is linked to the drivers license.

Example in Tennessee the concealed carry permit number is the same as the drivers license number.

I suspect that it is reported anytime a drivers license check is done.

Other states may do something similar.

For many years not Canadian Border personnel have profiled certain states and vehicles for extra scrutiny on firearms.

Example a pickup truck driven by a male from Tennessee would receive more attention than a car driven by a female from New York.

Maryland may be doing the same and then using the drivers license info to justify the search.

[Jess from VA]

I don't know about FL, but in VA, your CCW is tied in, computer-wise, to your driver's license no, not your vehicle plate no.  They may do a license plate computer check before approaching your car, but they have no idea if you have a permit, until they have first come to your car, collected your driver's license, then returned to their unit and run that thru the computer.  

And again, I seriously doubt MD has a FL CCW list in it's computer. This is one of several reasons a national CCW reciprocity law could be trouble.  I'd prefer that all state PDs do not have notice of my VA permit.  I'd like universal coverage, but would not like universal knowledge. 

This is the principle reason I run no NRA or political stickers (of any kind) on any of my cars/bikes/tags.

I think this article is probably closer to truth than fiction, just that the author is ignorant of the subject matter.... as is so often the case.

The thing to remember is to NEVER consent to a search of your vehicle, for any reason.  Once you give consent, all protections are off, and anything found is admissible.

[BF]

Gunowner's Harassment Sparks Outrage	powered by Aeva

[Ghost]

I know as I sit and listen to the Police scanner as soon as your Driver License is run and comes back they say if the driver has a 10-32 permit. So they know if you have a gun permit or not in the state of Indiana. I have carried in every state I have ever been in. It's better to have it and not need it than the other way around. I hope I never have to need it. I am 56 and had a License since I was 22 years old.

[Jess from VA]

No matter how bad your treatment, acting up is never a good idea.

But if the gentleman is telling the truth (and I believe him), he had more patience and respect and good manners than I would have been able to muster for an hour and a half of harassment with my family being drug out on the side of a freeway.  Hey officer, do you have a family?  And where do they live?

I do not believe the cop saw his permit in his wallet, and of course CCW lists are not on the internet. It seems clear from the story he was singled out before he was pulled over.  On what basis other than a FL plate, I have no idea.  There is no nationwide CCW registry as far as I know (DOJ may be working on one under the table, but not for all states PDs use).

[BF]

No matter how bad your treatment, acting up is never a good idea.

But if the gentleman is telling the truth (and I believe him), he had more patience and respect and good manners than I would have been able to muster for an hour and a half of harassment with my family being drug out on the side of a freeway.  Hey officer, do you have a family?  And where do they live?

I do not believe the cop saw his permit in his wallet, and of course CCW lists are not on the internet. It seems clear from the story he was singled out before he was pulled over.  On what basis other than a FL plate, I have no idea.  There is no nationwide CCW registry as far as I know (DOJ may be working on one under the table, but not for all states PDs use).

They are public records and they are very much available via the internet.  

Our local newspaper decided a few years ago (in 2005) to "out" every permit holder in the tri-county area and publish the entire list with their NAMES AND ADDRESSES IN THE NEWSPAPER.  

According to our editor at the time.....

 “I strongly support the right of concealed-weapon permit holders to carry firearms. I also strongly support the right of everyone else to know.”

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-privacy-the-press-and-gun-owners-1.75126

That editor also just happened to obtain a better position at another paper and quickly moved out of the area.   
 

[3fan4life]

One reason why I have never obtained a CCW is the knowledge that simply having one almost guarantees that you will be treated like a "Threat" during a traffic stops and other interactions with law enforcement.

It's absolutely ludicrous that law enforcement will single out and harass people that have jumped through all the hoops to legally carry a concealed weapon, but the fact is that they do. 

[Jess from VA]

I think those are exceptions rather than the rule.

Some rag paper down in Richmond published a list of local names and got in hot water over it (but I have not heard anything else about it).  And I believe something like this happened in NY state.

Obviously, I think a very good public policy argument can be made against such disclosure.  And of course I would publish the home address of any journalist who thought this a good (nee cute) idea.  Which I think also happened in NY.

That some partial lists have been made public does not mean there is a national database.

So a Baltimore Port Authority cop accessed the internet in his duty car, was somehow able to use the guy's FL plate number to find his name, then matched it with a partial list from a FL newspaper?  Seems unlikely.

I suspect we will never know how this man was targeted.  However it happened, the cop ought to be guarding empty shipping containers down at the port (in Winter).

On the few occasions I have been pulled over in VA, I have announced my permit, been thanked for doing so, and been treated professionally throughout.  All in daylight however.

[Skinhead]

I have been stopped twice since getting my CCW, Both times I was carrying (one traveling in Ohio), I can't remember where the second time was.  Both times I informed the officer of my permit and that I was carrying, and where the weapon was.  In both cases they thanked me , said don't go anywhwere near the weapon, and after some discussion, let me go with a warning(both stops were for speeding).  I still have my CCW, but unfortunately all my weapons were lost in the imfamous VRCC boating accident.

[Jess Tolbirt]

One reason why I have never obtained a CCW is the knowledge that simply having one almost guarantees that you will be treated like a "Threat" during a traffic stops and other interactions with law enforcement.

It's absolutely ludicrous that law enforcement will single out and harass people that have jumped through all the hoops to legally carry a concealed weapon, but the fact is that they do. 

since i aquired my ccw in 97 i have been pulled over 4 times for various reasons, each time they thanked me for being one of the good ones..on one stop i forgot to hand the officer my ccw license and he came back to the car and proceeded to jump my ass for not telling him i was carrying,, i told him if i was a bad guy he would already be dead,, he said thanks i just learned something, have a nice day...

[fudgie]

I oc and never been hassled. Never had a issue when stopped. Working EMS sure does have its purks!  I was oc in South Dakota in my rental when I got pulled over last winter. I dont wear a coat while driving even tho it was -14. I sat up front in the troopers car with my .45 on my hip while he did paperwork. 

[Skinhead]

I oc and never been hassled. Never had a issue when stopped. Working EMS sure does have its purks!   I was oc in South Dakota in my rental when I got pulled over last winter. I dont wear a coat while driving even tho it was -14. I sat up front in the troopers car with my .45 on my hip while he did paperwork.  

In MI, open carrying in a vehicle is considered concealing a weapon, and therefore requires you to have a CCW or lock the weapon in the trunk unloaded.  Stupid law, [sarcasm]that is not infringing on your right at all.[/sarcasm]

[Jess from VA]

Of course, this begs the whole CCW permit business.

The 2d Amendment does not say...... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, so long as they have a permit.

U.S. States that have implemented Constitutional Carry
         Alaska
         Arizona
         Arkansas
         Vermont
         Wyoming (for residents)
         Oklahoma (residents of constitutional carry states)

U.S. States that do not require a license to carry but have limitations for unlicensed open and/or concealed carry
        Idaho
        Montana
        New Hampshire
        New Mexico

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

When I have to cross one of the states where our rights seem to have been thrown out the window I do the following. I stop along the road just before going under the state line sign, unload my gun, lock it unloaded in a case in one saddlebag, then I lock the loaded mags in the other saddlebag. Then I reverse that after I pass through the border on the other side. As far as I'm concerned, these states aren't even part of the US. While I'm passing through I try not to spend money on any taxable items, and I try to avoid these states altogether when possible.

When/if these states have any kind of natural disaster which might get federal money I "E" mail my Senators and ask them to do their best to keep our money from going there and I tell them why. I know they have no control over it, but I still think they should hear from me about it. As a matter of fact, I think everyone living in a free state should do this.

[MP]

The only thing that sounds strange to me is that Florida does not require handgun registration and guns are not detailed on the concealed carry permit.  In fact its not even a  "gun" permit in FL, its a concealed "weapons" permit and the statute says knives and billy clubs are legally concealed weapons as well as guns.  Could just be in the wording.  All an officer has to do is run the license and it will tell them if the driver has a CCW.  I cant see how they knew about the type of gun, however, maybe they didn't really know that.....just became part of the story.

Chris,
I have both a ND and a Utah CCW permit.  Neither list any guns at all.  It is a license for ME to carry a weapon, no registration at all of the guns themselves.

I always wonder when a news story talks about a case where someone was stopped, and had "legal guns because they were registered".

My guns are NOT registered, and they sure as H++L ARE legal.

MP

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Some states have "gun registration" I'm told. There is no such thing in Indiana. Also, it's against the law for the federal government to have any kind of gun registration to my understanding. Many people think when they buy a firearm from a dealer they are now known to the government as a gun owner. Yes and no. When you buy a firearm from a dealer, you fill out a form 4473 which the dealer is required to keep for as long as he/she is in business. The dealer calls or logs onto the nics system, runs your info from the 4473 by them and they check to see if you are a prohibited person before the purchase is completed. The dealer doesn't give them the make, model or serial number of the firearm, only if it's a long gun, handgun or other. The feds are required to dispose of all records identifying the purchaser within a specified amount of time if the purchaser passes the check. I repeat, contrary to what many think, there is no federal registration. In addition to the 4473's the dealer is also required to permanently keep a bound book of all firearm transactions.

If a firearm is used in a crime and recovered the authorities contact the manufacturer to find out what distributor the firearm was sold to. Then they contact the distributor to find out what dealer the firearm was sold to. Then they go to the dealer to find out what individual the firearm was sold to by using the bound book and/or form 4473.

When a dealer goes out of business, he is required to send to the atf his bound book and 4473 forms. What happens to them then is unknown to me.

I would assume that in a state with gun registration the dealer is required to send firearm transaction records to the state. At one time in Indiana, dealers were required to send the local sheriff info concerning handgun purchases but that law was done away with years ago.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

When I have to cross one of the states where our rights seem to have been thrown out the window I do the following. I stop along the road just before going under the state line sign, unload my gun, lock it unloaded in a case in one saddlebag, then I lock the loaded mags in the other saddlebag. Then I reverse that after I pass through the border on the other side. As far as I'm concerned, these states aren't even part of the US. While I'm passing through I try not to spend money on any taxable items, and I try to avoid these states altogether when possible.

When/if these states have any kind of natural disaster which might get federal money I "E" mail my Senators and ask them to do their best to keep our money from going there and I tell them why. I know they have no control over it, but I still think they should hear from me about it. As a matter of fact, I think everyone living in a free state should do this.

All things aside Mike we both know if the crap hits the fan its while you are doing this.... I've carried for years both legal and illegal... If I'm on the road I'm armed .

[Pete]

Some states have "gun registration" I'm told. There is no such thing in Indiana. Also, it's against the law for the federal government to have any kind of gun registration to my understanding. Many people ... At one time in Indiana, dealers were required to send the local sheriff info concerning handgun purchases but that law was done away with years ago.

Couple of additions:
In some states the serial numbers are reported and compared against the stolen guns database.
Tennessee for sure.
The records are still supposed to be destroyed in 24 hours, assuming all went well.

4473 are required to be held for 20 years by the dealer.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

When I have to cross one of the states where our rights seem to have been thrown out the window I do the following. I stop along the road just before going under the state line sign, unload my gun, lock it unloaded in a case in one saddlebag, then I lock the loaded mags in the other saddlebag. Then I reverse that after I pass through the border on the other side. As far as I'm concerned, these states aren't even part of the US. While I'm passing through I try not to spend money on any taxable items, and I try to avoid these states altogether when possible.

When/if these states have any kind of natural disaster which might get federal money I "E" mail my Senators and ask them to do their best to keep our money from going there and I tell them why. I know they have no control over it, but I still think they should hear from me about it. As a matter of fact, I think everyone living in a free state should do this.

All things aside Mike we both know if the crap hits the fan its while you are doing this.... I've carried for years both legal and illegal... If I'm on the road I'm armed .

You are right. Hopefully, if the world turned to crap for me while I was disarmed like this by state laws someone would use my misfortune to help people get their freedom back.