WI may become a right to work state soon

[cookiedough]

Whatcha all think, good or bad?  Some say it will destroy Unions, others not at all?

Indiana they say is the latest to become this, how they doing now?

There is a big howdy doo at the WI Capital building with protestors, etc. 

[J.Mencalice]

Whatcha all think, good or bad?  Some say it will destroy Unions, others not at all?

Indiana they say is the latest to become this, how they doing now?

There is a big howdy doo at the WI Capital building with protestors, etc. 

It'll be a hoot to watch your wingnut governor on the campaign trail for the next presidential election.
My prediction: Knocked out in the first minute of the first round.  The guy's a twit.

Total control by labor is bad; total control by management is bad.  Balance in anything is good, especially on the high wire with no net.

[Jeff K]

Jeff K approaches slowly... sniffs the air... looks in all directions... walks away slowly never turning his back to the troll. 

[art]

Right to work state is BS. , more like a right to fire you state. Workers have no rights and no protection from bad bosses. Suck up to the boss or else. Been there didn't do that,took early retirement.

[Gavin_Sons]

I'm against unions just because ihave worked around union guys and they think they know it all. Get paid twice as much for knowing half as much. Not saying everyone in the union is this way, just my experience withe some of the ones I have known and worked around. And they also get mad when a non union company comes in to fix what they couldn't.

[John Schmidt]

Florida has been a right to work state for years, hasn't hurt them down here one bit. The unions didn't like it at all but had become so corrupt they kinda shot themselves in the foot. That's not a documentary on all unions or the locals, just what happened here. Strangely enough, everyone survived and things got cleaned up. Some unions are worthwhile, others....not so much, but it seems to rest more on the shoulders of how it's run locally. That was the big problem here. Personally I think every state should be right to work, but that's just me. I've been a part of it as a requirement to have a job many years ago in a number of different situations. I had no interest in it....but that didn't matter, I only needed the job....but that didn't matter. What seemed to matter to them was my few dollars which I really couldn't spare at the time. I eventually was able to walk off the job but waited for an opportune time when it was most effective. Man, that felt good. I had to laugh, I was told they'd follow me to my new job and rat on me as to how ineffective I was. I said fine, the address is.....and told them where it was. Happened to be a teaching job at the Orlando's 33rd. Street county jail. 

[Serk]

IMHO, a union is a lot like Obamacare...

... if it's really as wonderful as they claim it is, it shouldn't hafta be forced on someone...

That's all I have to say, about that.	powered by Aeva

[crow]

This is VERY simple.  Would you liked to be disciplined, or fired for cause,    
Or "at anytime, for any reason, or no reason."  Language my employee wanted to put in our contract.

[Varmintmist]

This is VERY simple.  Would you liked to be disciplined, or fired for cause,    
Or "at anytime, for any reason, or no reason."  Language my employee wanted to put in our contract.

OR,

Do you want to be dependant on a third party to get any kind of employment, and to have to pay that third party just to be employed, every month for the rest of your career weather they make any effort on your behalf or not. You may also only rise to the level of the herd, and the guy you have to cover for on a daily basis makes as much as you do.

[Patrick]

NY is a right to work state, and, it's also a big union state.  The unions aren't what they used to be though.
All I can say is that I don't know any different and I'll hire and fire who I want. All employers I know want good workers and don't fire anyone just for the heck of it, and its good to be able to pay someone what they are worth. Of course everyone thinks they are worth more, some are.  I can't ever remember paying anyone minimum wage, but, I know some that aren't worth minimum wage.
I remember as a youngster my grandfather gathering everyone together and taking them outside to look at the sign on the building when there was a big push from an outfit in Buffalo to unionize mechanics. He just said that he would start over by himself again if this business unionized. Turned out he was paying more than the union.

[Jess Tolbirt]

i have lived in right to work states just about all my life, Texas and Tn.,,I moved to Mo. back in 91 and couldnt get out of that state fast enough.. I am a construction Electrician,, so I personally think its a good move to go right to work, that way you dont have to work with people that dont know their job very well and get paid the same as you do, and tell you that you dont know what you are doing..

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Proud Union Member.... 29 years and counting.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Tennessee is a right to work state.

I have personally belonged to 4 Unions.

In good standing with all of them.

IT the act of RIGHT TO WORK,,does not kill Unions.

Unions will still be honored, and thrive.

YOU will simply not be forced to join one to work in a shop.

Some folks call it a CLOSED SHOP to work Union. You have to join if you work there.

All that does is close the business down as they move to a RIGHT TO WORK STATE.

DUH.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Tennessee is a right to work state.

I have personally belonged to 4 Unions.

In good standing with all of them.

IT the act of RIGHT TO WORK,,does not kill Unions.

Unions will still be honored, and thrive.

YOU will simply not be forced to join one to work in a shop.

Some folks call it a CLOSED SHOP to work Union. You have to join if you work there.

All that does is close the place down as they move to a RIGHT TO WORK STATE.

DUH.

Al, why are the populations of CA and other union states so high ? I've lived in Union states and right to work states. The one difference is pay rates and benefits are higher in Union states. There is a reason companies resist unions, less labor costs= more company profits.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Tennessee is a right to work state.

I have personally belonged to 4 Unions.

In good standing with all of them.

IT the act of RIGHT TO WORK,,does not kill Unions.

Unions will still be honored, and thrive.

YOU will simply not be forced to join one to work in a shop.

Some folks call it a CLOSED SHOP to work Union. You have to join if you work there.

All that does is close the place down as they move to a RIGHT TO WORK STATE.

DUH.

Al, why are the populations of CA and other union states so high ? I've lived in Union states and right to work states. The one difference is pay rates and benefits are higher in Union states. There is a reason companies resist unions, less labor costs= more company profits.

California is Broke and getting worse.

Jobs are going to Texas,,,a right to work state.

Union Scale in Tennessee where your UNION BROTHER Joe works, is higher than national average.

It is a right to work state.

Oh Yeah and population is high due to WET BACK Sanctuaries.

[RainMaker]

My experience with unions was both good and bad.  Worked for UPS in college - the union there worked hand in hand with management to improve productivity and worker rights.  They worked together to make it a great experience.

Then worked at a landing gear factory with the International Brotherhood of Machinists.   It wasn't a closed shop, but if you liked your windshield on your car, the ability to find your lunch bucket at lunch or not finding your tools out of calibration every workday, then you joined the union.  When I found faster and easier ways to complete projects, I was threatened because I was going to make the others work more efficiently and reduce workload, which meant no overtime.  I was told directly my my steward that I could not go faster than the others because some of the others were not capable enough to do the work any better.  Soon after, I lost my windshield again and decided I should work somewhere else.

Later, that union went on strike and held out for months. The company sold the plant location and moved all the equipment to Cleveland, where they now build the landing gear.  Everyone here lost their job.  

So it goes both ways.  As with anything, there are good and bad examples.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My experience with unions was both good and bad.  Worked for UPS in college - the union there worked hand in hand with management to improve productivity and worker rights.  They worked together to make it a great experience.

Then worked at a landing gear factory with the International Brotherhood of Machinists.   It wasn't a closed shop, but if you liked your windshield on your car, the ability to find your lunch bucket at lunch or not finding your tools out of calibration every workday, then you joined the union.  When I found faster and easier ways to complete projects, I was threatened because I was going to make the others work more efficiently and reduce workload, which meant no overtime.  I was told directly my my steward that I could not go faster than the others because some of the others were not capable enough to do the work any better.  Soon after, I lost my windshield again and decided I should work somewhere else.

Later, that union went on strike and held out for months. The company sold the plant location and moved all the equipment to Cleveland, where they now build the landing gear.  Everyone here lost their job.  

So it goes both ways.  As with anything, there are good and bad examples.

Absolutely

[crow]

I don't have to pay union dues if I don't want to.  I don't pay them for me, someone else did that.  I pay dues for the kid who is still in grade school. I have worked in non union shops, one advantage is I created my own job classification and wrote my own job description.  And made more than the others in the shop.   If you enjoy a 40 hour work week, overtime pay, then thank a union, as you would thank a veteran for your freedom!

[Romeo]

Tennessee is a right to work state.

I have personally belonged to 4 Unions.

In good standing with all of them.

IT the act of RIGHT TO WORK,,does not kill Unions.

Unions will still be honored, and thrive.

YOU will simply not be forced to join one to work in a shop.

Some folks call it a CLOSED SHOP to work Union. You have to join if you work there.

All that does is close the place down as they move to a RIGHT TO WORK STATE.

DUH.

Al, why are the populations of CA and other union states so high ? I've lived in Union states and right to work states. The one difference is pay rates and benefits are higher in Union states. There is a reason companies resist unions, less labor costs= more company profits.

i live just outside of Detroit. Probably the single most unionized area in the world. Not sure if you've checked lately but the population of the city has dropped from somewhere north of 1.7 million to just about 700,000 over the past years. Apparently the union base didnt have that 'flocking to the area"
effect around here. The effect it did have was to insure substandard workers had to be employed whether they could do their jobs or not, at an inflated wage that finally drove the last nail in the coffin of the automobile industry as we all knew it. Unionized city workers in numbers large enough to serve a city of larger than 1.5 million held onto their jobs, jobs that were no longer needed for a city of 700,000.
The largest employer in the city, was the city itself. Can someone please explain to me how that works?
It doesnt. Finally, finally, after 60 years of mismanagement and corruption, in a city basically RUN by the unions, we have broken the shackles and are starting over. It took a bankruptcy. Greed is greed folks. Whether it is perpetrated by millionaires or union workers.

[CaribouHunter]

My 2 cents, and I have been in three unions in my working life.  Would not give a plug nickel for any of them, they are all corrupt, and cause more problems than they solve.  Have lived in Alabama, a right to work state, for 25 years.  And, we have the Mercedes Benz plant, Hundai Plant, Toyota Plant, Boeing Plant being built, Honda Plant, and Remington Firearms is now moving here (Huntsville).  Unions are job killers, and entire state killers, they are not and never been job producers.  The smartest thing your state can do is vote in right to work laws.  I would challenge anyone to look at the difference between job creation (private sector) in union states versus right to work states and I would bet it is 100:1 better in right to work states. 

[cookiedough]

well, it's official,  WI will become a right to work state:  http://www.channel3000.com/news/Walker-to-sign-right-to-work-bill-at-Badger-Meter/31655676

Interesting all Republicans voted for it,  all Democrats voted against it according to the article.

Not sure if I am for or against it,  will see in a few more years I guess?  Unions are good and bad, it all varies on what they do at each individual company.  Some are corrupt, others are not. 

I guess if it will create jobs (maybe??), I am for it, but at what cost or labor rate will those jobs be at?

[The emperor has no clothes]

My 2 cents, and I have been in three unions in my working life.  Would not give a plug nickel for any of them, they are all corrupt, and cause more problems than they solve.  Have lived in Alabama, a right to work state, for 25 years.  And, we have the Mercedes Benz plant, Hundai Plant, Toyota Plant, Boeing Plant being built, Honda Plant, and Remington Firearms is now moving here (Huntsville).  Unions are job killers, and entire state killers, they are not and never been job producers.  The smartest thing your state can do is vote in right to work laws.  I would challenge anyone to look at the difference between job creation (private sector) in union states versus right to work states and I would bet it is 100:1 better in right to work states. 

I'd take that 100:1 bet. Clark will put up the money for me

[Jeff K]

I get a huge kick out of this "fired for no reason" bull.
I assure you that no employer fires a GOOD employee for "no reason" you may think there was "no reason" but I assure you there was.

Firing good hard working people for entertainment value??? Really?

[CaribouHunter]

Meatthead please name me one union state that has 8 auto plants a airline plant a firearm plant (all moved here from union States). Just one.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Meatthead please name me one union state that has 8 auto plants a airline plant a firearm plant (all moved here from union States). Just one.

I am glad your state is adding jobs. But 100:1 I doubt.

[Davet261]

According to Wikipedia Ohio has 17 auto plants and 555 motor vehicle production establishments and is the 24th largest global economy and we are not a right to work state. 

 I worked for a company that built the paint systems in auto plants ( and the motorcycle plant in Marysville) for almost 20 years.

 

[crow]

If its bull, then why does an employer want the language,  or for no reason written in?  An employer doesn't disapline or fire you, your boss does.  I suppose an excellent employee never got fired because, perhaps, he was smarter than the boss???? Or had ideas for improvement, that were implemented, and the boss took credit for????   I totally agree, if companies treated employees well, there would have been no reason to collectively bargain for anything

[Jeff K]

If its bull, then why does an employer want the language,  or for no reason written in?  An employer doesn't disapline or fire you, your boss does.  I suppose an excellent employee never got fired because, perhaps, he was smarter than the boss???? Or had ideas for improvement, that were implemented, and the boss took credit for????   I totally agree, if companies treated employees well, there would have been no reason to collectively bargain for anything

Yes there are bad bosses, and there are bad union reps as well. I have been on the other side of the table for 29 years. I can assure you that the unions I worked with did not protect everyone equally. They would cut deals with us agreeing to "lose" one case to get another dropped. They even "turned in" people for offenses that we we unaware of just to save the hide of someone they liked better.

There are shady people where ever you go, and they are on both sides. But I can honestly say that the unions I worked with rarely helped any one keep their job that was a good employee, they were almost always someone that need to be gone for the good of all the employees and the company as well.

And I can't even count how many times in my career I have had to tell good employees that I couldn't pay them more or cut them some slack because the union they belonged to set the rules. If I don't write them up for the time they were late because they got in a fender bender on the way to work, then I can't write up the guy that over slept because he drank to much last night... again. Everyone has to be treated the same.

Bill works his ass off trying to do a good job, Tim the slacker does the least he can do to get by... "Why does Tim make the same pay as I do yet he is a slacker?" Because your union says I have to pay everyone the same. "Well then get rid of Tim!" I wish is was that easy.

The union I worked with in Florida wasn't too bad to work with. They tried to get the employees of the new plant we built to join. When the employees found out that they already made more than the union plants in the area they dropped the whole thing.

I don't have a problem with unions. I have a problem with people being forced into an organization they don't want to be in just to have a job. They are forced to contribute to the democratic party even if they don't want to or know that they are. People say that "you aren't forced to join a union, just don't apply at a union shop" that is BS because when people look for a job they don't put that first. They don't scour the ads and investigate all the companies they send resumes to to see if they are union or not. They just want a good job. They normally find out about the union when they are near the end of the hiring process. Trade jobs and unions are a bit different of course.

People are very passionate about this, you might as well be talking about religion or politics. You will never change anyone's mind.

As far as Wisconsin goes, I read that 68% of the people in Wisconsin support the RTW. That is a pretty large number. 11% of the workforce in in Wisconsin is union and only 6% is in private sector unions. That is a very small number. I don't think that many people will notice this RTW change in Wisconsin.

[Jess from VA]

Concur. 

[cookiedough]

I agree with Jeff K as well in all that was said, but the post above where employees do not get fired for no good reason does happen.

My wife works for a company that when you get into work, you can sit down,  HR is waiting for you,  comes up ASAP and tells you that you are terminated employment, does NOT allow you to sign onto your PC nor get your personal belongings at your desk, and escorts you out the door for NO reason.  You have to schedule another day to come back and pick up your personal belongings at your desk.
She has been there now 23 years and has seen some VERY good workers fired, the latest in 2014 being her former boss who got a V.P. position about 8 years or so ago.  I've met the guy and is a nice guy/good worker,  see no reason and neither does my wife why he got axed. 

I guess near 20 years in with a company means nothing anymore and giving NO reason as to why fired at all either.   She has personally seen this at least 10 times in the past 20 years around her and is not fair, but then again, I guess life is not fair.  But for NO reason given to me seems B.S.  to me like if been there say 10-20 years doing your job well and good reviews, why get fired?  Makes for a nice, warm and fuzzy feeling - NOT!!!

Yah, see no reason this being passed will cause much stir in WI since not many areas around me that I know of that are Unionized, except 2-3 at most.  My Uncle being at work 50 years works for a unionized place and so does a co-worker of mine who works there full time with him being seasonal with us part-time is all since pays like 5 bucks per hour less similar jobs.  He says very hard to get fired at his Union employer and my Uncle he said proves it since he gets away with taking 1 hour or so naps at his desk in the warehouse he said as well as not working thanks am sure to being there so long and Union.   I guess being 70 years old with 50 years of employment in that Unionized place pays off????????????

[threevalks]

PROUD UNION MEMBER 38 YEARS.

[Varmintmist]

well, it's official,  WI will become a right to work state:  http://www.channel3000.com/news/Walker-to-sign-right-to-work-bill-at-Badger-Meter/31655676

Interesting all Republicans voted for it,  all Democrats voted against it according to the article.

Because unions send your dues to the democrat party, even though it is against the law. (See Beck) Even if you are pro union, but dont want to fund Dems, your dues go directly to Dems. You have no choice because the big business of unions has decided to use your labor to fund their agenda. If you think it isnt a big business, check out where they live and what they drive.  It aint a Chebby pickup and a modest cape cod.

Not sure if I am for or against it,  will see in a few more years I guess?  Unions are good and bad, it all varies on what they do at each individual company.  Some are corrupt, others are not. 

I guess if it will create jobs (maybe??), I am for it, but at what cost or labor rate will those jobs be at?

At the market value. If the company doesnt pay enough for skilled labor, then they wont get skilled labor and they will go under.

[solo1]

I learned a lesson about some unions when I was 18 and a snot nosed kid.  I went to work in a closed shop. I made 'widgets' in the machine shop for GE.

The very first night I made too many 'widgets'  and then set on my arse for the rest of two hours. The next day, the union steward was waiting for me at the time clock. "You're making us look bad, kid, slow down or you regret it!'  Today, unions can't understand why production has gone overseas!

Followed that up ,later down the road when I had experience, with damn near getting beat up as a salary employee who was required to cross a picket line.  The Union brought in goons!  I wasn't even doing a job that was unionized.  Still later, as a skilled professional working for GE Xray we were doing a hospital install and I was forced to wire in view boxes hot because the union electricians refused to turn off the power. Those SOBS!

Later still at Magnavox, doing a professional job (not union)I asked a union carpenter to repair the roof because it was leaking onto very expensive electronics.  He said, and I quote, "Hell, i can't go up on the roof it's raining and it's dangerous"   You guessed it!  I called him again when it wasn't raining and he said, "How do you expect me to find the leak when it's not raining?"  He fu**** off all week and then worked on Saturday and Sunday OT,  and he could NOT be fired!!! (he had seniority)

Today, the council of the city of Ft. Wayne is trying to allow bids from non union construction companies to bid and save the taxpayer money. It might happen but one DEM council member doesn't want that to happen, he'll lose votes. Ft. Wayne also has union workers with specific jobs.

My town, New Haven, has all cross trained employees who make good money and benefits, no union.
The taxpayers get their money's worth.

A life time of seeing union members not doing their work any better than non union and getting paid more than non union employees has made me set my thinking.

Just because it might have the union label doesn't mean much to me.

[MP]

Cookiedough.
Just because you do not know the reason for the firing, does not mean there wasnt one. In fact, it would be against the law to announce the reason.

[Jeff K]

Cookiedough.
Just because you do not know the reason for the firing, does not mean there wasnt one. In fact, it would be against the law to announce the reason.

That and some people confuse "firing" and "Labor reduction"
I have worked with companies that were down sizing, avoiding bankruptcy, or going into bankruptcy and had to walk good people out the door, it is unavoidable sometimes.

"fired" is such an ambiguous term.

[Jess Tolbirt]

union calls it lay off's
non union calls it gettin fired or reduction of forces