Now the Sabre is down

[sixlow]

Stepson tried to make bike week and she stopped running on I 95 Holly Hill xt. About 48 miles from home, he washed it before going, makes me wonder if the electrical short we know it has on the non working left blinker may have blown a fuse. I drove down got her back home, jumped started, check batt volts while running, no charge even at 3k rpm. Not having the best of luck here lately. I said to myself "so you wanted to own 3 M/C did ya".  Maybe Stator, hopefully just a fuse, no symptoms before of dimming lights but who knows ? Any ideas how I can trouble shoot ? This is the 2001 shadow Sabre 1100 .

[John Schmidt]

I think you should just get rid of that headache by selling it to me for $500 and let me worry about the problem. Hey, just trying to help out....what are friends for?   

PS: I know nothing about that bike but I'm willing to learn, same as when I bought the Valk. 

[Grumpy]

Check the connector where the 3 yellow wires come out of the housing from the stator, they are notorious for having a meltdown. Honda has an upgrade plug for them. I have repaired a couple over the years, Honda shadow use's the same setup. Also there is a rectifier/regulator  in the circuit that can fail. Also the stator can be checked with an ohm meter, should get the same reading from each of the three wires, from one yellow to another. An open means it is fried, also can short to ground.

[Pappy!]

If it is the same reg/rec as the Honda Magnas it may have failed. They were notorious for it. The connector that Grumpy mentioned is also a common one.
Lots of troubleshooting info on them including ohms checks of the stator to make sure the windings are intact.

[sixlow]

Thanks John, I just may take you up on that offer. Actually it isn't a headache, just a new learning and teaching/bonding with the stepson as well. I will do some searching and check those wires and reg/rec as well. We have family from "Mizzoura" coming this weekend so all my mechanical projects will have to wait till the following weekend. Where has all my riding time gone !

[John Schmidt]

Just yanking your leg a bit. If I came home with another bike, I'd have to make room in the garage for my bed. 

[dragonslayer]

My best guess would be reg/rectifyer.Been there done that.If you go to Evilbay for a replacement do not buy from Ricks.Cheap knockoffs that caused me to be stranded twice.Finally bought a used one with low milage and been riding 3 years with no problems.Also might think about a spare for that just in case.

[sixlow]

Thanks for the help fellas, is an ohm check for the rectifier the best way to see if it is fried ?

[Pappy!]

Mike, check the connector that Grumpy mentioned. Then start the bike and bring it up to around 2500rpm minimum, with a voltmeter, check and see if the battery is charging. That is the simplest test.
If not I would then Ohm out the leads from the stator and determine if it is intact and capable of charging. If it is then change out the reg/rec.  Pretty common failure. Also common to see a burned or melted area on the bottom of them. That's a sure sign !
Read this. It is for a VMAx but the charging numbers still apply to your bike as well.
http://v4musclebike.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8527&d=1365263262

And this is a pretty good step by step electrical systems check for your bike.
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
These guys make a good replacement part as well and much less than OEM.
Also Ricks which can be found on Ebay among other sites.

[sixlow]

Those are some helpful links there, Thanks Pap, so the three yellow wires check out o.k. from under the seat area, got them to ohm out at the spade connectors with pointy leads from meter. all combinations of these 3 wires ohm out as described. no visible melt downs, all fuses are good. the one link does have a test for the rectifier but it is somewhat involved, cut, splice, use a jumper, i just think it will be easier to buy the rectifier and replace it, no visible melt downs on it either, i did remove it and scuff surfaces for a good ground there. After a while Dr. Bert stopped by to lend a helping hand, which it was, Thanks Bert. So after we checked everything possible i said screw it lets go for a ride, off we went.

[sixlow]

I need to add after we cleaned connections and reinstalled everything i fired her up, 12.3v before starting, 11.8v while running, revving, no change, after shutdown, 12.0v.

[Thunderbolt]

Mike so you sort of left us out on that limb here.  Did you decide to ride because everything checked out the best you knew and the only thing that was left was that the rectifier probably is bad so you are going to order that and give it a try? 

[sixlow]

You are correct Sir.   I will order part and see what happens.

[Bert AKA,Valkaholic]

I Had A Great Ride To St Augustine To Mike & Liz's Home To Help Tinker On The Shadow !
Mike And I Took A Ride  Along The River And Down To Palatka This Afternoon. I Put On 272 Miles Today  And I Am Looking Forward To Many More .

[Pappy!]

You did well on the troubleshooting. Those things are pretty notorious for failing. As long as you checked out the stator then cranked and found no charging you did your job. Well done!

[sixlow]

Problem Rectified, new reg/rectifier did the trick. A few issues though, new r/r  wires are too short for stock location mounting, I read somewhere of guys relocating under seat, my concern was heat, these r/r  have fins for what i assume is cooling, stock location is underneath bike in front of rear fender, for testing i mounted under seat area, all is charging nicely. I did not have the correct size butt connectors or shrink tubing to extend the wires this morning so since this record cold is here I put  her on the road for 25 miles came back removed seat and r/r is barely warm. I have now purchased 12 guage wire, (new r/r has 12ga. old has 14) I did not want to splice 14 ga. in the middle of 12 ga. and also bought spade connectors for the 3 yellow wires to plug in nicely. I will solder the splice in and shrink them. First pic is old r/r on top of new to show wire length difference, and 2nd pic is temp location under seat with only one screw holding it down. Working fine for now but i will extend those wires and mount r/r underneath where it belongs. Thanks all for your help.

[Bert AKA,Valkaholic]

Good Job ! Now Does This Mean That You Can Ride Next Weekend, LoL !

[sixlow]

I sure will at least one day, I still have oodles of work to get done on Teal, and the pingle to put in Black.  My weekends fly by.

[sixlow]

I finally got around to extending the reg/rect wires yesterday and with a friends help the red and green plugs got cut off before I could tag the wire locations per the plug tab. I know the yellow wires are interchangeable but was not sure about the 2 red/ 2 green ones. So went ahead and tested as she ran volts climb to 13.9 even on an idle, revving gives no change, I thought before volts would fluctuate with RPM change. So I swapped the tabs inside the plugs to try to see if there was any difference, nope, red swap first, still 13.9 and holding, green wires swap,  13.9 and holding, one more swap of the reds and all combinations give me 13.9 and holding. So I can only assume any routing of these plug wires is acceptable as well. I sure hope so, I did feel the reg heat up a little after 10 minutes of test running but I think this is normal and that is why it is now located underneath in the wind. Can anybody assure me of the 2red/2green wires are also ambidextrous within themselves. ? Thanks

[Pappy!]

Usually there are diodes in the reg/rec that will change the ac current to dc.
Unfortunately I cant offer anything past that without seeing a schematic.

[sixlow]

Me again,  same problem it seems, battery not charging on the sabre, These stators are known for this apparently. I wonder which crappy brand I bought from ebay last time.! 

[Bert AKA,Valkaholic]

That Sux !

[Steel cowboy]

On The "Thesabregroup.com" there is a great pictorial on the stator replacement. Look under tech & mod section. I did mine on my 2000 sabre the year before last.

[sixlow]

Thanks cowboy that is a nice site I did not know of. If it comes down to it being the stator I will follow the pictorial for repairs, but first I will determine which part is at fault using this link Pappy had posted earlier in this thread last year. 
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[Steel cowboy]

There are some YouTube videos on testing the stator too.

[sixlow]

I went through this post again and saw where Grumpy told me how to test the stator using an ohm meter and the three yellow wires, they all ohm out to each other so last night I ordered a rectifier/regulator but this time paying more for a stock Honda version.

[gordonv]

Here is my post on the HSATF, where and why I replaced my RR.

http://hondashadowacetourer.yuku.com/topic/14263/install-OEM-style-high-output-RegulatorRectifier-RR

I also did icandoitfaster's ACE T at the same time. Mine is still running, but battery failed last year. Paul's stator went out, I think one or 2 years later while on a trip.

I don't know if there is any posts in write up, but some have gone to a MOSFET RR instead, and also have connected those yellow wires together (soldered), so they stop melting.