German Wings

[old2soon]

air crash in the Alps. Heard on the Today show looking more and more like the Co Pilot crashed the aircraft on purpose. The cockpit recorder has sounds of the Pilot trying to reenter the cockpit and the Co Pilot breathing right up to impact. Any bets on what the Co Pilot converted to? RIDE SAFE.

[Valkorado]

I don't want to jump too fast, but that was sure my first question last night when I saw this.  Guess either that our he just didn't like the prospect of living anymore, but why take everyone with you?  

[Big Al of Tennessee]

German 28 yrs. old. Co-Pilot of German Wings low cost airline.

He had a lapse of 6 months in his training history.

If he was Schizo-phrenic or in other words heard THE VOICES.

He just did what the voices told him.

As far as the taking some unlucky folks with him, including 2 babies, a lot of suicides

do this for some damn reason.

He apparently was not a Muslim, or terrorist as of 5 minutes ago.

A Egyptian Pilot did the same thing, only into the Ocean of Atlantic.

He was on the hook in a child sex abuse scandal and was flying his last

flight home before they were going to fire him

Dumb and Dumber.

[old2soon]

While I was watching that report they showed video of the L E Os at the co pilots house but according to the talking heads they had not entered the house yet. I'll stand by my original statement til proven otherwise. And-YES-I realize zero proof may emerge. IF it was JUST his suicide WHY did he choose to take so many others with him? THAT is THE question the entire world and I would like answers to! RIDE SAFE.

[Big Al of Tennessee]

Murder Suicide only makes sense to a disturbed person.

We that are not, will never understand it, nor do I want to.

TRADTIONAL Ala U Achbar was not heard on the tapes so far.

A traditional Islamic Praise for the God of Islam, that is

apparently one Blood Thirsty Son of a Bitch.

[9Ball]

A basic assumption that I make whenever I get on an airplane is that the pilot wants to live just as much as I do...time to change that paradigm!!   

Condolences to the friends and family of these victims.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A basic assumption that I make whenever I get on an airplane is that the pilot wants to live just as much as I do...time to change that paradigm!!   

Condolences to the friends and family of these victims.

Thinking the same thing.

[old2soon]

My brother and his lovely wife-my sister in law-will now worry me no end til they get back in their own house in Illinois. The WHY of my worry is the amount of international flying they do. And trust me-NOT just international flights will cause me worry!  Before the talking heads spends minutes on this-is there ANYWAY to screen for the co pilots behavior? RIDE SAFE.

[Patrick]

The pilot/Capt was locked out from the cockpit. The first officer/co-pilot was doing the driving and the Cockpit Voice Recorder shows him to be calm, quiet and breathing normally. Apparently he had set the Autopilot to that decent rate.

[Jess from VA]

If the copilot intentionally crashed the plane, this brings to mind the way we (USAF) ran our two-man nuke missile launch control facilities (LCF).  Each officer wore a sidearm.  NO ONE can break in to one of these control rooms.  The sidearms were in case you needed to shoot your partner.  We also ran a pretty serious PRP (personal reliability program) along with top secret clearances for those fellows, and nuke bomb crews.

Course, I'm sure the public would love the idea of two pilots carrying pistols in case one needs to shoot the other.  (So you tell them it is to protect from hijacks and crazy passengers)



I got a full tour of the very first operational LCF .  Impressive.

[cookiedough]

Maybe new regulations need to be in effect immediately that there has to be 2 people in the cockpit at all times?  So sad! 

[csj]

Canadian government just made 'two people in cockpit at all times' law for Canadian airlines.

Second person doesn't need to be flight trained, just member of planes' crew.

A number of other countries/airlines have made similar changes.

[..]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/what-we-know-about-a320-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz/story-fnizu68q-1227280471225

[Jess from VA]

Second person doesn't need to be flight trained, just member of planes' crew.

That seems inadequate.  A trained pilot in a pretty complex cockpit punches in a few buttons/commands, and the crewman has no idea what he did (like dump all fuel), or how to undo it.  All the crewman could do would be to try to ensure the 2d pilot gets back in the cockpit.  There would have to be two pilots in the cockpit at all times, which seems like they would have to have three for each long flight.

Having a door the command pilot cannot instantly open also seems a really bad idea.  Though he could have a gun to his head.

[bagelboy]

The pilots and stewards have a code they punch in to enter the cockpit, but the co pilot was able to override it from inside the cockpit. He has a button which can override the code for 5 minutes, but it can be re-hit continuously. The button is an override to the door code in case someone threatens a pilot outside the cockpit or threatens a steward, then they can not enter the cockpit! Problem is, if one nut is left alone inside and overrides the code, you can not enter, period! Bottom line is, two have to remain in the cockpit at all times. Unless they are cohorts, someone stable will have control.

[Jess Tolbirt]

one pilot, two pilots, three pilots,, fly by remote control, NOTHING can be made fool proof until all human control is taken away,,like maybe program the plane  at the start of the flight and let the computers fly the plane but then again the computers could be reprogrammed, sooooo, i will ride the bike or take the truck when i need to travel..

[Willow]

So if a copilot is intent on executing a suicide murder of an entire plane load a second person in the cockpit would be a deterrent?  Something doesn't make sense there.  He did ultimately kill the pilot anyway, didn't he?

It's a tragedy.  Don't take what I say to belittle that.  I'm not sure the "safety steps" described could have avoided that ever happening.

The news has a way of causing us to magnify the risks of certain events taking place.  Please do keep in mind the thousands of flights that landed safely yesterday and the many, many passengers who were not harmed.  You could fly internationally every day for years and your chances of being victimized by such an incident are not only minimal they are infinitesimal.

As I get a bit older it occurs to me that we have control or even influence over a lot less than we believe we do.   

[Big Rig]

As I get a bit older it occurs to me that we have control or even influence over a lot less than we believe we do.

And now you know the secret! 

[old2soon]

From what I've seen and read seems as if the co pilot was suffering from depression and should NOT have been flying. At this point in the investigation it appears he had NO religious or political axes to grind. Unless he left a video or a voice tape or a letter we may NEVER know what was on this young mans mind. The fact he chose to take 149 other souls with him however-I M H O-doe's not speak well of him. I can in no shape or form begin to understand the demons he MIGHT have been dealing with. My Prayers and condolences to all the families affected by this tragedy.  RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Why a number of people feel they need to kill themselves, AND take a whole bunch of people with them when they go is so much narcissistic bull crap.  If you cannot cope, by all means go ahead and kill yourself, but leave others out of it.  

My misery is so bad, I have to show others how bad it is by becoming a mass murderer.

Your misery is as common as dog poop, get over yourself.  

 

[BF]

When the news first broke about this plane crash, my first thought was that the pilot was probably chanting allah akbar all the way to the crash site. 

So far, that doesn't seem to be the case. 

However, AND IF TRUE, there's this.....

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

[The emperor has no clothes]

So if this guy was having mental issues and a Dr. gave him a note to take off work, would that Dr. Be obligated to talk to the police about his issues ? Does the patient confidentiality go past his death ?

[Patrick]

Investigators found a crumpled up doctors excuse from work in his apartment. I've not heard the reason the excuse was written for, or, when. All I've heard is speculation.

I'm surprised they did/do not require 2 in the cockpit as we do.

There is also some doctor all over TV talking about possible medical problems such as heart issue that could have caused the accident. All this speculation while it seems to be determined the auto pilot was set for that decent rate and the first officer was calm, quiet and breathing normally.

[RP#62]

Well at least he didn't have a nail file or more than 3 oz of shampoo.  No telling what he could have done then.

-RP

[Jess from VA]

So if this guy was having mental issues and a Dr. gave him a note to take off work, would that Dr. Be obligated to talk to the police about his issues ? Does the patient confidentiality go past his death ?

Dr/patient, attorney/client, priest/penitent privilege generally varies by State law, and is tricky.  However, as a general rule, if the confessor leads the confessee to believe the confessor is about to commit a crime or do wrong, he is supposed to take action to stop it.  In all cases the confessee tends to err to the protection of the confessor (stay silent), because they risk their license and a great big civil suit if wrong (or even if right).  And confessors rarely ever tell that they are contemplating great wrong.  And this guy may have been disturbed, but was clearly functioning in a very organized and intelligent manner.  

After the confessor's death, getting records is easier, but the doctor(s) would still want a warrant to protect himself.  See Sandy Hook.

Of course I have no experience in German law and procedure, but it's probably not far different.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So if this guy was having mental issues and a Dr. gave him a note to take off work, would that Dr. Be obligated to talk to the police about his issues ? Does the patient confidentiality go past his death ?

Dr/patient, attorney/client, priest/penitent privilege generally varies by State law, and is tricky.  However, as a general rule, if the confessor leads the confessee to believe the confessor is about to commit a crime or do wrong, he is supposed to take action to stop it.  In all cases the confessee tends to err to the protection of the confessor (stay silent), because they risk their license and a great big civil suit if wrong (or even if right).  And confessors rarely ever tell that they are contemplating great wrong.  And this guy may have been disturbed, but was clearly functioning in a very organized and intelligent manner.  

After the confessor's death, getting records is easier, but the doctor(s) would still want a warrant to protect himself.  See Sandy Hook.

Of course I have no experience in German law and procedure, but it's probably not far different.

So with that, I would think the German authorities know what the Dr. knows by now. Not that it makes much difference but I hope we know also.

[Jess from VA]

I doubt we will learn much.  I bet we learn it was a great big surprise to the doctor.  Of course, for him to say otherwise would hardly be in his best interest or reputation.  I would like to see a medication list (and what he actually was taking); that's a bit more objective.

The better rock to look under is the Airline practice and procedure for psych patient pilots (in general, and specifically for this guy).

A percentage of humans are dangerous and unpredictable, but we already knew that.

In general, professional pilots are usually considered some of the smartest, most analytical, best multi-tasking, and coolest under pressure humans on the planet.

According to an FAA study, of 2,758 aviation accidents from 2008 to 2012, eight were determined to be suicides.  That is one-third of one percent.  One in a million is rare.  One out of 345 is less than rare. 

[Big Al of Tennessee]

 Jess this is the worry some part. Rare Yes, but it happens needlessly.

According to an FAA study, of 2,758 aviation accidents from 2008 to 2012, eight were determined to be suicides.  That is one-third of one percent.  One in a million is rare.  One out of 345 is less than rare.  

Small % is one thing, my arse hitting the mountain is totally another.

But flying is safer than a 17 year old girl driving mom's SUV while texting and hitting a motorcyclist.

Texting is unsafe, while driving, or walking.

[cookiedough]

I'll still take my chances on the ground.

I'm not much into flying, more mental than anything. 

Done it twice in my life,  not sure I care much about a 3rd.

My daughter in high school will be taking her first flight to Costa Rica in a few months, she is flipping out over flying.  She cannot back out since is most of her own money she put up for the trip since we told her if she wants to go, get a job and foot most of the bill.  I don't believe personally in high school for the kids to be pressured in taking a trip overseas (to Costa Rica) for Spanish class is all.   Plenty of places in the states to see first.