Vet or Not a Vet

[HurstRob]

I recently was forced to sit next to a braggadocios Jerk for longer than I would have normally. I am not a Vet of any war; I just missed my call up for Nam (slightly too young). While I was listening to this Jerk talk / brag it occurred to me that he may not be a Vet at all. I am not really sure why I felt that but over the years I have learned to trust the little hairs on the back of my neck that twitch. Is there a place that can provide info on Vets to the public with just a name. Or are there fool proof questions that one Nam Vet would ask another if they had their own doubts about someone in a similar situation. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and God Bless our Vets.

[..]

My Vet friends do not talk much about their experience unless I ask questions.

[Hooter]

What Britman said....I do however have a buddy of mine that does on occasion talk about it. He said that is what has kept him, sain is the word he uses. Too much crap in war and for him he has to talk about it. I hope you get what I mean? some people never can get away from it and I feel bad for them. There are things that when some vets do get together and come across a phony they know pretty quick this person was never there. When a person that was never there tries to make them think he was, they see through his crap. There are certain things a Vietnam vet only knows or anyone from any war has knowledge of for that matter.

   

[Gavin_Sons]

The guys I know dont talk about it. One of my best friends has been on 5 tours to iraq/ afaganastan. He is not quite right anymore. Kinda crazy, but still does not talk about it. I knew one guy that bragged about it and how many people he killed and I called him out on it. Told him he was a liar and true vets dont talk about the things they did.

[Jess from VA]

There is no place YOU could easily check another's veteran status (short of asking him to produce his DD Form 214... and those get made up too).

Most stolen valor braggadocio comes from the Vietnam era, not after.  Most frauds are easily discovered when questioned about the details of their service:  Branch, where they underwent basic and then advanced (specialty) training, unit(s) of assignment overseas, dates, and places served, awards and decorations received.  They often completely mispronounce Vietnamese names and cities, mix and match Ranger/Airborne tabs and Marine units, CIB awards when not assigned to infantry, etc.  However, it generally takes one to know one; specialized knowledge of this kind is mostly only found in those who actually served.  

What we found at USDVA was that frauds rarely stayed in group therapy PTSD groups (at virtually every VA hospital and clinic nationwide) beyond one meeting, because the guys who really served would smell them out in very short order.... and they were none too friendly with frauds and offered to rearrange their anatomy free of charge.  And of course thousands of VA medical and administrative personnel are RVN veterans themselves.  Frauds nearly all claim psychiatric disability, since it much harder to fake gunshot and shell fragment wounds and amputations.

IE, Bien Hoa Air Base.  Is not bein hoah..... it is ben whaa.  

[old2soon]

Some R E M Fs i've talked to have tried o come off as the next Audie Murphy. Another poser I talked with near as I can figure signed up when he was8 or 9. The Guys that actually had boots on the ground can pick out liars quicker than I can unless he tells me he is ex Navy. Specially if he tells me he worked the flight deck. 72 or 73 some shift fer brains was runnin his mouth in this bar and I asked him bout his dog tags or his D D 214. He asked me what is a D D 214.  Friend of mine punched him in the mouth about a heartbeat before I did. Now I just choose to walk away. Some body here posted a picture of a dufus with mixed uniform parts mixed badges of rank and entirely TOO many award ribbons. I do remember that those of us that have served ripped him. Most of the Guys and some of the Gals I ride P G R with have served. Once in awhile over coffee after a mission we talk. Mostly we remember those of our friends that can no longer speak for themselves.  RIDE SAFE.

[..]

When I was a school bus driver a new guy was telling everyone he was a "Tunnel Rat".

He stood about 6ft 4in.

One of the ex vets asked him a couple of questions and we never saw him again.

[solo1]

REMF, yes, that's been around for a long time

I have a problem with it.  The word gives me mixed emotions since, I guess, I was one.  I was in a medical outfit north of the 38th, in 1953.  I did NOT see any combat but saw the results.  I think the phrase,( yes, it's a phrase)started in WWII, along with 'Kilroy was Here'  and was a phrase for those that served behind the lines in a support group.

Although I served in a war zone during a war,  I've always felt that I had it easy and therefore try not to give the impression that I had it tough.  I don't even want to come close to giving an impression of 'stolen valor' even though I served.  We have two other Korean War Veterans that feel as I do. Both of them served in support, one with the 25th and one was in Special Services.

I also admit to thinking that the REMF title was a little unfair as most of us served where we were told to,and yes, there were those that bragged it up to make it seem like they saw combat...............I'm not one of those.

Arseholes who said they served and never were in the Service, did not qualify for REMF's' because they could not have been Rear Echelon, from what i understand.


When i was in there were a large contingent of Service members who supported the Grunts that were in the thick of it: Medics, truck drivers, quartermasters,  intelligence, etc.

[Jess from VA]

Wayne, my 18 years with VA show that medical personnel generally and combat medics in particular were often exposed to more collective horror than front line operators.  Maybe not fear of imminent death from the enemy...... but torn, broken, dying and dead on a constant basis is it's own form of misery.

REMFs and Saigon Commandos described a variety of individuals, but I don't think medical personnel in a  combat zone qualify for or deserve that particular handle.   

 

[3fan4life]

Generally people who go around "Bragging" about their exploits aren't the real deal.

I had the opportunity to meet a WWII vet whose exploits would have made a GREAT movie.

While others were quick to sing his praises, he would NOT.

He was quick to say that he was not a hero, that the REAL heroes were the guys that didn't make it back.



Solo1,

I was one of those "REMF's" as well.

You are correct that you go where you are told and do what you are told.

Something tells me though that you weren't as much of a REMF as you let on.

And let me take this opportunity to Thank You for your service.

I have GREAT respect for all who have served and especially those who did so on the front lines.

I consider myself very fortunate that during my time in a war zone (Gulf War) that I didn't experience alot of bad things.

Kind of a, "There before the grace of God go I." outlook.   

[old2soon]

Wayne-I hope you realize I DID NOT aim at you or anybody else that served Honorably. That WAS NOT my intent. The entire ship I was on drew combat pay-cooks boiler tenders medical types pilots and folks in my squadron that never flew. I've run up on those that have served but try to glorify themselves as they relate what they "did". My hat is off to those support people that do their collective work most times with no recognition of any sort. Jess hit that nail with the "Saigon Commandoes" remark. IF we have anybody here who was an actual Rear Echelon type NOTHING bad or mean was meant by my remarks. I hope this clears up anything that might have been taken the wrong way. RIDE SAFE.

[BF]

I went in, I served, I got out.  DD214 is in file cabinet. 

[solo1]

Absolutely no problem, Dennis!  That term was around long before you mentioned it.

During the Korean War many conscientious objectors served in the medics.  While I respected their Faith, many didn't, and that led to the overuse of REMF's.

I had three MOS's. Infantryman, Combat medic, and Xray technician.  Luckily, I didn't serve in the first two, and the third evidently made me a good Deuce and a half driver.    I went where they told me with questions but no complaints.

Again, no sweat, Dennis!

[mike72903]

I read about fake Medal of Honor recipients several year ago and the organizations that expose them to public humility. Found it incredable people would do that but there are evidently hundreds that do.  Family friends and communities celebrate their heroics until exposed.  They have counterfeited or purchased medals and little shrines to themselves in many cases. http://www.mishalov.com/False_MoH_Recipients.html

[The emperor has no clothes]

The only combat experience that I got while in the Navy was fighting off the "women" in Subic Bay 

[MarkT]

The "stolen honor" phenom says something sad about the perps.  I guess they have some psych issues related to self-esteem.  As for REMFs - I was one, have been quick to own that whenever my service is brought up, or I'm around vets who may have served in combat or been exposed to personal danger or emotional trauma from close contact with others who paid the price.  The fact is, there are far more REMFs needed than combat troops in every military action.  I was a weapons mechanic, supporting TAC fighter/bombers, loading up cluster munition assemblies (Bomb Release Units - BRUs and Multiple Ejector Racks - MERs) in the bomb dump "preload", loading birds on the flightline with bombs, missles, and the M61 gun (rotating 6-barrel 20mm cannon, 6000rpm) magazines;  and later, a B52 base - same work, mostly loading the BUFFs in revetments or working preload.  Loaded and armed weapons systems far from combat.  We once had sappers or snipers took pot shots at us on the end of the runway (working arm/dearm) on the TAC base, from cover a good ways away, but nobody got hit and the SPs fired off parachute flares and went after them.  If we had been hit, it would have been murder as we were simply unarmed mechanics - no weapons or guards for our protection.  Good thing the AK47 has lousy sights, is no sniper rifle, and/or the shooters were lousy shots.  Yeah I have the VSM (Vietnam Service Medal) on my DD214, and qualify to join the VFW, but so did everybody in theater who served during the conflict. They asked me to volunteer to be a tail gunner on BUFFs before they were automated, and asked me to volunteer for EOD, in both cases "You'll get combat pay".  I said no thanks. If I might go to a VFW, it is to honor those guys who truly deserve it. The reason I signed up for the AF was to learn a useful skill and stay alive while still serving, since I was drafted and the Army wanted me for infantry.  

Of my 4 pals I was close to in HS, they went into the Army and the Marines, and used to talk about how they were going to go over and it was going to be like shooting fish in a barrel.  We were all pretty good shots, hunted together for years.  Funny thing, I was the only one who didn't want to go stomp around in the jungle carrying a rifle, and was the only one who wound up in theater.  The jar-heads got as far as San Diego and Hawaii, while the grunts made it to the Phillipines and Okinawa. To this day - or the day of the horrible boating accident - I had far more guns than all of them combined, and as an armorer and unlicensed gunsmith, am far more experienced and tooled to build or tune guns. (But I stand in Mike Frye's shadow.)  But don't have their Marine sharpshooter medals.

[santa]

My Father-in-law severed in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam all in combat units. He doesn't talk much about it until lately but only a few tid bits here and there. He showed me some pictures of a concentration camp his platoon liberated you wouldn't believe what they found. One of the other son-in-laws asked him which war was the worst, his answer was Korea. He said he was involved in so much hand to hand combat with knives, looking the enemy in the eyes. He's some guy. 31 years in the Army then when he was retired and the Gulf  War broke out he called the Pentagon and said "I know you can't send me into combat but I can fill a desk job to free up someone else" they said thanks but no thanks. He is always looking for something to-do for people.
He started out a private in the infantry and after Korea he went to OCS School and retired a full bird Colonel.
He is a good father-in-law and a man I'm proud to say I know him!!

Santa 

[jimmytee]

I know that "Stolen Valor" is alive with more recent conflicts. I belong to the CVMA and it is a sensitive subject among our group. Many a You Tube video exists with people being exposed impersonating combat veterans. And usually ridiculously bad impersonations too. I think you're right to have some serious doubt about this guy. Even in a group of combat veterans, experiences are not just  spouted about. They don't have to be. We know what and where we have been. You can see it in their faces. That's one of the reasons for organizations like the CVMA. There is great therapy in motorcycles ,as we all know, and combining that with other Veterans to help Veterans helps to give each other support and place to vent.

[PAVALKER]

The only combat experience that I got while in the Navy was fighting off the "women" in Subic Bay 

Damn near spit out the fruit I was eating from laughing out loud.  Those poor gals were trying to make a living ya know.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

The only combat experience that I got while in the Navy was fighting off the "women" in Subic Bay 

Damn near spit out the fruit I was eating from laughing out loud.  Those poor gals were trying to make a living ya know.....

Oh believe me, they got plenty from me . That was a hell of a place to drop off a 20 year old kid from Alaska. 

[old2soon]

Ya'll ever fed the beast in front of Paulines? I've fed a few ducklings to it a time or 3.  San magoo and mater juice fer breakfast!  Saw a Marine on the gate there get thrown into crap river. RIDE SAFE.

[MarkT]

I went in, I served, I got out.  DD214 is in file cabinet. 

I made a shrunk copy and put it in my wallet.  Came in handy at the SSA when they said my birth cert of Child Born Abroad of American Parents (Geneva Switzerland, folks were there after WWII while my Dad was helping restore war-torn Europe) didn't prove I was a citizen.  I said yes it does, by definition, don't you know the law?  Then I said OK, I have my DD214 here, it proves I was in the AF, you can't serve there unless a citizen - you know that right?  Yes they did.  I had proved to the AF I was a citizen with the same birth cert.  Stupid govt people.

[musclehead]

as a civie that had a lifer Army dad, even I know what a DD 214 is.

slightly harder to catch are the guys that served but then claim duty that was NOT their own. say they were in the motorpool but claim they served in the rangers or what not.

[Jess from VA]

Actually Mark, you don't have to be a US citizen to to serve on active military duty.  You probably do have to be here legally (or at least you used to).  There have always been rules allowing for expedited pathway to citizenship for US military service. 

I seem to remember reading in 1900 or so, more US Marines were non citizens than citizens.



 

[MarkT]

Actually Mark, you don't have to be a US citizen to to serve on active military duty.  You probably do have to be here legally (or at least you used to).  There have always been rules allowing for expedited pathway to citizenship for US military service.  

I seem to remember reading in 1900 or so, more US Marines were non citizens than citizens.
  

Actually Jess, You do have to be a citizen to serve in the USAF. Or did in 1971, don't know if that is still true. But not in the Army.  Don't know about the other services.  I had to PROVE I was a citizen to get in the AF, while the Army had ordered me to report.  I had misplaced my birth cert, so we tried to get a replacement from the American Consulate in Geneva, which no longer existed.  My Dad, who was buds with senator Proxmire, contacted him for help.  Proxmire jumped in the State dept's crap, to straighten it out, to prove my citizenship so I could get in the AF and stay out of the infantry.

Sometime after that my papers were found again - now I have the original State Dept document, as well as the Cert. De Naissance (sp), French language birth cert, in my safe.

[Jess from VA]

OK, I stand corrected if the AF had it's own rules.  WE always were the hardest service to join, rules and standards-wise.

Looks like there are certain enlisted AFSCs now where you do not have to be a citizen to enlist (but a legal immigrant), but all officers must be a US citizen, and you will be denied reenlistment without citizenship.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforceenlistedjobs/a/nocitizen.htm

Thousands of Filipinos joined the Navy historically as stewards, as a pathway to citizenship.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I seem to remember reading in 1900 or so, more US Marines were non citizens than citizens.



 

I didn't realize you were that old Jess

[Jess from VA]

I seem to remember reading in 1900 or so, more US Marines were non citizens than citizens.
 

I didn't realize you were that old Jess

Hey, I was only 6 then.

[old2soon]

When I got out to Sea in 1964 there were a lot of Filipinos serving as stewards thru out the Navy at that time. When I as I the P I the one thing you absofrikkinlutely DID NOT do was say anything bad about General of The Army Douglas Mcarthur. At that time the average Filipino would set you right most ricky tick.  Other than the war I enjoyed my time in the U. S. Navy. RIDE SAFE.

[Raider]

REMF, yes, that's been around for a long time

I have a problem with it.  The word gives me mixed emotions since, I guess, I was one.  I was in a medical outfit north of the 38th, in 1953.  I did NOT see any combat but saw the results.  I think the phrase,( yes, it's a phrase)started in WWII, along with 'Kilroy was Here'  and was a phrase for those that served behind the lines in a support group.

Although I served in a war zone during a war,  I've always felt that I had it easy and therefore try not to give the impression that I had it tough.  I don't even want to come close to giving an impression of 'stolen valor' even though I served.  We have two other Korean War Veterans that feel as I do. Both of them served in support, one with the 25th and one was in Special Services.

I also admit to thinking that the REMF title was a little unfair as most of us served where we were told to,and yes, there were those that bragged it up to make it seem like they saw combat...............I'm not one of those.

Arseholes who said they served and never were in the Service, did not qualify for REMF's' because they could not have been Rear Echelon, from what i understand.


When i was in there were a large contingent of Service members who supported the Grunts that were in the thick of it: Medics, truck drivers, quartermasters,  intelligence, etc.

While REMF has been around for a long time, the term for this war is "FOBette".  It refers to someone who spent all their time on a Forward Operating Base or FOB.  It seems that in these most recent wars, some generally considered rear echelon jobs are actually seeing a good deal of combat as long as they have to leave the FOB.  Logistics guys in particular have seen much more combat than they have in previous wars.

Now, the guys who never leave, the FOBettes, they often get caught trying to tell their war stories only to be busted by dudes who actually spend a lot of time OTW (outside the wire).  I've had tours both ways- an engineer platoon commander in an infantry battalion during the assault in 03, and later engineer company command tours in which at least half my time was on the FOB.  I gotta say, I really enjoyed the decent rack and dang good chow of the FOBs.  

[Liberty Bell]

Yes, I was a fobbit, sort of..

I was with the medical detachment serving the detention facility.. For the first part of my tour.
Second part, I was brigade engineer bring the new facility on line.

Three times, I was rocketed. And once I stepped on a landmine. Fortunately, it was an old soviet butterfly that had largely decentigrated so didn't blow. But let me tell you about that fraction of a second where you hear that vial snap and look down and know what your foots on.....

We delt with the bad guys 24/7. They might not have had guns, IED's, etc, but that didn't mean they were not dangerous. But because they were no longer "combatants" but detainees, when we got assaulted we weren't eligable Purple Hearts and other "combat" decorations. In fact, if anything happened, you were lucky if you didn't get brought up on charges for dereliction for loosing control....

Then I could tell you about regularly going "off base" into the new detention facility, by myself, daily where security forces wouldn't go without full kit and major production.

I could tell you about being in a cage with 14 - 18 detainees, with only a translator and a skinny ass girl guard teaching preventive med classes for them to take back to their villages when released. This is after one had told me," we like you! So when we take over, we kill you last and fast..."

So yeah, I was a fobbit. You can look down your nose at me for not being a "real combat vet",
But, there wasn't a day of my 16 months that I wasn't eyeball to eyeball with the bad guys at very close range, can you say the same?  

Everybody that stepped up and served , and I don't give a damn if they were" just a cook" or "a log dog" or "POG" of whatever verity, deserves respect because none of it in theater is safe. Hell, two weeks ago we lost 11 guys in a training mission in Florida, talk about REAR AREA....  Less than 3% of the population steps up and serves. No, not everyone is going to be Audy Murphy, Carlos Haathcock, Chris Kile... Doesn't mean they're any less brave or their service was any less important. Takes one hell of a lot of folks backing that one trigger puller out there..



So you can call me a fobbit if you'd like...

[RDKLL]

I am putting this at the top just in case you dont want to read the whole post.
If someone claims to be a USN Seal, there are 2 questions that you can ask and if the genuine article will gladly and enthusiastically answer:
1. What was your Seal class number?
2. Who was/were you swim buddy/buddies?
If they do not answer thse questions....call BS

Almost wanted to start a new thread, but I know the word will still get out.

First, for the most part the braggers are fake. When the vets I know start to shoot the bull, it focuses almost exclusively on liberty stops etc. When it get to the action they were involved in they stop, out of a sort of reverence and eveyone in the conversation understands.

But what I did learn about stolen valor and Navy Seals in particular becuase my neighbor claimed to be a Navy Seal and he did the classic "I cant talk about it" position. So I tried to get enough info to check an online resource that used to be free but due to the increase in traffic he has to charge so that only someone serious will contact him....In the case of my neighbor, he was not a Navy Seal and probably not in the Navy at all. My wife and I call him Faux Seal