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Big Al of Tennessee
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« on: April 20, 2015, 08:03:36 AM » |
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The Front tire in this video, is suffering greatly from the off center track of the rear tire. The main problem is poor rear tire choice, displayed, by the best video, that I have seen. Pushing the front tire in the corner is the problem. Off tracking back tire pushes the front, causing it to plow. In the video the front tire is actually leaving a black mark and smoking a little. Watch and learn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ_d5IIdRZI |
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« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 08:07:07 AM by Big Al of Tennessee »
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GOD SAVE THE UNITED STATES from the democrats is my prayer.  |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8743
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 08:37:02 AM » |
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The Front tire in this video, is suffering greatly from the off center track of the rear tire. The main problem is poor rear tire choice, displayed, by the best video, that I have seen. Pushing the front tire in the corner is the problem. Off tracking back tire pushes the front, causing it to plow. In the video the front tire is actually leaving a black mark and smoking a little. Watch and learn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ_d5IIdRZIBefore you draw ANY conclusions, I would like to see the same video, same bike, same turn , done with a MC tire. I'm sure the same thing happens. But you have every right to continue your crusade against the Darkside. |
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 Troy, MI |
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dreamaker
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 09:14:28 AM » |
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In the video they speak of the patch, Now you have to understand that automotive and motorcycle engineers are not idiots. OK. There must be a method to their madness. Now viewing the video there is good patch, but what is the grip strength of it, compared to the motorcycle tire? When I got my Valk, I was not happy with the style of tire on it, it reminded me of crotch rocket tire. It was explained to me the reasoning behind that style was to increase adhesion of the bike to the road. Kind of makes sense, but those tires suck on wet grass and in the sand. On the road for me they are like glue.
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 09:24:42 AM » |
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What I saw was the front tire being "Plowed" from a quick low speed turn.
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15325
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 10:03:51 AM » |
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What I saw was the front tire being "Plowed" from a quick low speed turn.
Exactly, and you'll get that with a m/c tire the same as with a c/t. As for it smoking, not so. That's nothing more than dirt/dust being kicked up. Proves once again, the c/t doesn't lose contact in a turn. On that particular bike, I'd most certainly go with a larger front tire if running a rear c/t. |
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Black Pearl's Captain
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 10:41:36 AM » |
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Al basic stuff are hard for you huh? How about how far this trashy bike is "off center"? Fast forward to 2:05
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solo1
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 11:52:42 AM » |
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I really don't see a need for a CT on the back of a Vstrom as the tires on a Vstrom are nowhere near the same cost as a Valk tire, and I'm getting good wear on them maybe due to 300 pounds less weight of the 'Strom. At one time, I thought that the difference in wheel size ( about .040. between a car wheel and a MC wheel) would cause demounting when cornering, if the tolerances were wrong. I had a car tire on the rig (Triple Tread, the same as the video demo) and it worked perfectly, especially in stopping power. I wouldn't ride a two wheel MC with a car tire but that's me. As a retired environmental test engineer we had a motto in the entrance to our shop: "One Test is worth a thousand expert opinions" CT's on motorcycles have withstood the Test, I won't argue with it.  |
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cookiedough
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2015, 07:00:23 PM » |
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not so sure I could do the circle test or zig zag cone test on my I/S in that video without touching my feet down a few times even on cycle tires? I probably could, but not 100% sure on that.
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ValkISDan
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 05:14:41 AM » |
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I was thinking of mounting a tractor tire on my bike and starting a whole new controversy. It would have improved handling for those times we take a ride through corn fields  |
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Pappy!
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 05:21:10 AM » |
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Lordy, Al, see what you have done? You have now discovered the Holy Grail of anti-darkside information.
We will all have to go out and change back over to MC tires now.
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 05:32:25 AM » |
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Just observe the bike going around the circle to see the difference in front and rear wheel placement. |
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0leman
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2015, 07:52:07 AM » |
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Just observe the bike going around the circle to see the difference in front and rear wheel placement. I wonder if the rear tire not following the exact path of the front tire is more length of the bike rather than a tire problem. Tight circle and wobble path, rear tire can't follow exact path. |
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2006 Shadow Spirit 1100 gone but not forgotten
1999 Valkryie I/S Green/Silver
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2015, 07:54:17 AM » |
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Just observe the bike going around the circle to see the difference in front and rear wheel placement. I wonder if the rear tire not following the exact path of the front tire is more length of the bike rather than a tire problem. Tight circle and wobble path, rear tire can't follow exact path. The longer the wheelbase the more obvious the difference in the path taken by front and rear wheels at slow speed. |
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5232
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2015, 08:58:09 AM » |
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The video Big Al posted doesn't show anything that doesn't happen with a bike with OEM tires on both ends. If you guys are concluding that the front tire is "plowing" because it follows a larger radius around a circle than the rear tire, you simply haven't thought about the geometry of it. As others have said, any vehicle, car, bicycle, truck, etc., that steers with only the front wheel(s) will have the front wheel follow a larger radius than the rear. Also, in case you haven't noticed, BOTH tires were leaving black trails on the asphalt. This is not because the tire is slipping (skidding), but is simply a function of the deformation and return to original shape of the rubber as it rolls under against the pavement. The more the tire flexes, the more rubber is abraded as it is forced into its fully weighted position, then is released back to its original shape as weight and other forces are released. You will notice your tires leave a mark even when being pushed around in your garage.
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ValkISDan
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 04:14:54 PM » |
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The video Big Al posted doesn't show anything that doesn't happen with a bike with OEM tires on both ends. If you guys are concluding that the front tire is "plowing" because it follows a larger radius around a circle than the rear tire, you simply haven't thought about the geometry of it. As others have said, any vehicle, car, bicycle, truck, etc., that steers with only the front wheel(s) will have the front wheel follow a larger radius than the rear. Also, in case you haven't noticed, BOTH tires were leaving black trails on the asphalt. This is not because the tire is slipping (skidding), but is simply a function of the deformation and return to original shape of the rubber as it rolls under against the pavement. The more the tire flexes, the more rubber is abraded as it is forced into its fully weighted position, then is released back to its original shape as weight and other forces are released. You will notice your tires leave a mark even when being pushed around in your garage.
Yep, what he said |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16771
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2015, 04:23:14 PM » |
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The video Big Al posted doesn't show anything that doesn't happen with a bike with OEM tires on both ends. If you guys are concluding that the front tire is "plowing" because it follows a larger radius around a circle than the rear tire, you simply haven't thought about the geometry of it. As others have said, any vehicle, car, bicycle, truck, etc., that steers with only the front wheel(s) will have the front wheel follow a larger radius than the rear. Also, in case you haven't noticed, BOTH tires were leaving black trails on the asphalt. This is not because the tire is slipping (skidding), but is simply a function of the deformation and return to original shape of the rubber as it rolls under against the pavement. The more the tire flexes, the more rubber is abraded as it is forced into its fully weighted position, then is released back to its original shape as weight and other forces are released. You will notice your tires leave a mark even when being pushed around in your garage.
Yep, what he said Indeed what Gryphon Rider said is quite correct. Additionally, if you tracked a two wheeled vehicle at significant speed you would find the two wheels, whatever tire was mounted, running very close to the same line as the directional change is brought about by lean rather than redirecting the front tire. At lower speeds, those at which directional change is brought about by redirection the front tire, you will always see varied lines between front and rear. As in many situations, the evidence is only as good as the ability of the viewer to properly interpret that evidence.  |
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Alien
Member
Posts: 1403
Ride Safe, Be Kind
Earth
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2015, 06:48:47 AM » |
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Has there ever been a motorcycle accident where running darkside was found to be a contributing factor? Personally, I run MC tires on the Mothership but until someone can show me hard data proving that a CT causes or contributes in any way to motorcycle accidents, I'm not jumping on the CT=firey crash bandwagon.
Ride Safe,
Alien
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2015, 07:07:09 AM » |
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Has there ever been a motorcycle accident where running darkside was found to be a contributing factor? Personally, I run MC tires on the Mothership but until someone can show me hard data proving that a CT causes or contributes in any way to motorcycle accidents, I'm not jumping on the CT=firey crash bandwagon.
Ride Safe,
Alien
The evidence seems to always be consumed in the fire. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Rio Wil
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2015, 08:45:13 AM » |
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2015, 10:43:21 AM » |
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you are correct,, when Bev and I crashed we hit a dog and down we went,,my hospital bill alone was close to 80 grand,, 15 grand in damage to the bike,, and Bev got off light, hers was only about 6 grand,,,none of that would have ever happened if it hadnt been for them dam tires,, if i wouldnt have had tires i wouldnt have been riding,,, |
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