Alzheimer's & driving

[Jersey mike]

Hello all,

Has anyone ever had to take away the keys and car of their parent(s)?  My father-in-law is at a point this needs to happen.

Last week my wife was in the car with him and they got to a red light. He stopped put his left blinker on and proceeded to try to go through the light. When my wife stopped him, he flew off the handle about a left on red is perfectly legal and he's been doing it his whole life. Now I know in some city settings a left on red is legal but this was not the case, we don't live in the city or an area where a left on red would apply.

He's been seeing a doctor for his Alzheimer's and she says there is nothing she can do, he's safe to drive, no more dangerous than a new teen driver and as long as he can find his way home he's ok.

My wife works from home, twice a week she works at he parents house but it's more like baby sitting , doing household chores and going to the store or running "errands" with he dad.

She has tried to talk to him about his driving, about he might cause an accident and his response is "that's why I have insurance". He's become belligerent and argumentative over every topic.

His daily cognitive issues are getting worse, today he couldn't understand why the key would not open the rear hatch, it was the house key, there are only 2 keys on the key ring, the car key is a big black key with the Honda "H" on it.

I could go on with more but it gets redundant and depressing. This is a good man, I love him like my own father and it's causing major issues between me and my wife. I been through the "What if" scenario over and over, she understands the problem better than most but just can't seem to pull the trigger on taking away the cars and / or his license.

Well if anyone has some experience going through something like this input would be appreciated.

Mike

[Jess from VA]

I do not have experience with this.

But contact and discussion with his family Dr (or specialist) should be useful.  So could a call to DMV (for general information).  If he is unsafe driving, and should not be doing it, it might be worked so his loss of privileges is blamed on the Dr and/or DMV, and not family (you).  

The family Dr may claim privilege and privacy (as he should),  but stick to your guns and tell him you are not trying to violate the Dr/patient privilege, but you are trying to protect the safety and security of dad-in-law and the public at large, and if something bad happens and he refused to help, you will be glad to notify his state licensing authority, the local DA/cops, and the insurance companies.  (Always start out nice, and use threats only as needed)

A quick search showed a lot of info on this subject.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/caregivers/in-depth/alzheimers/art-20044924

http://www.alz.org/documents_custom/statements/Driving_and_Dementia.pdf

http://www.alz.org/georgia/in_my_community_16195.asp

http://www.nia.nih.gov/alzheimers/features/driving-and-dementia-health-professionals-can-play-important-role  

[DK]

Frank Broyles, the former Arkansas football coach and AD published a really good book on this very subject based on his personal care of his wife, Barbara over a period of about eight years before she died from Altheimers.

Proceeds were donated to charity, I believe the Altheimers Foundation.

The book has been widely praised.

[Patrick]

I finally had to break down and take the keys from my father.  It was my first experience with Alzheimers so it takes awhile to figure things out.
He was starting to drive poorly and dangerously. He would go the Legion and VFW every day, I received a call that he was lost and needed me to come get him. I went to the lady's home and my father was sitting there having a cup of coffee raving about having to be in this strange lady's home. He was on his way home from the VFW when this happened.
I just told him it was time for him to stop driving and give up his keys. He just looked and handed them over. I thought I would be in for a heck of a battle, he was one obstinate man.
I know others that have had to do the same. There comes a time when it has to be done.

[hubcapsc]

Well if anyone has some experience going through something like this input would be appreciated.

There was a day I had to take my mama's keys from her. I wrote down what had
happened when I got home, and ran across it not long ago... it was not pleasant.

The whole thing will be hard for you and your family. Try to do your best is all you
can do. And pray.

-Mike

[Hook#3287]

My dad had his fathers car brought in for service and never returned it.  Sneaky, but my grandfather eventually forgot he had a car.

Terrible thing that disease.

I've got a good friend and riding buddy that's in the beginning throws of it.  He's got an older sister that is pretty much gone.  I had to help him put his bike back together cause he couldn't remember or figure it out.  He still rides ok, just slower.   He's taking about selling it.

It's tough to watch your friend or loved one go slowly away.

[Michvalk]

My father used the excuse that they use the car for the in-home helpers to use for groceries and other errands. When my mother went to the hospital for health issues, he disappeared, in a fairly bad snow storm. We found him 5 days later, frozen to death in a snowbank. He had had a heart attack, trying to get the car out of the snow. He was more than 120 miles from home. I'm pretty sure he was on his way to see Mom in the hospital. He was in beginning stages of the disease, and still fairly lucid, and showed no serious issues. Just the stress of my mother being in the hospital, I guess. I had fought with them about the car, as my mother could no longer drive either, but, relented. Dad drove over a million miles for a trucking company, local, and I mistakenly thought everything would be OK. I was wrong.

[solo1]

As one who is 87 years old and a motornut, I also have this in the back of my mind. 

From personal experience, I know that I forget things like "What did i come into this room for?"  . I can't help but think that my kids are keeping an eye on things.  It would be easy for some to 'make a case" based on something that they're looking for because of their parent's age.  Most younger persons don't realize that there is a lessening of short term memory as we age. I see it all the time when i talk to seniors my age or younger. That, in itself, does not make them dangerous to drive.  So far, I've not had any adverse feedback from the city when I sit on the Board of works and safety, so I must be making sense.

However, from the posts here, it seems that there is a case for taking away the license.  Not knowing or recognizing objects,  repeated problems which don't make sense, etc.   BUT be careful and do not 'rush to judgement"   

Wayne, solo1

[Hooter]

I had to and hated it. It takes away their freedom and sometimes their self worth. It was necessary just to keep my dad from killing himself, someone else, or both. It isn't pleasant thats for sure and I found out that he had about 5 sets of keys. So he and his truck would come up missing. I finally got all the keys. I also took the coil wire off his truck in case I didn't get everything (keys). He became depressed and sat around a bunch until my brothers and I got things in order so we could take him here and there. We all worked days so that was a problem. Daytime he was mostly at home unless someone else picked him up. (friend)
   It puts a burden on all the family to take them here or there. The phone calls became an issue to. He would call a dozen times a day saying he needed to absolutely be some place. My Mother had passed away so there was no one other than family and friends to make sure he could get places. It has to be a family decision due to the family responsibility and it changes everything.
   It's a good idea to let family friends know what is going on as well. They may become involved to. I remember my dad telling me he hated me for what I did. He passed away a couple of years later.

[Alien]

Sadly, I have been through this.  There is no easy way to take someone's driving priveleges without insulting their sense of independence.  At the end of the day, you have to act in his best interest the same way you would with a child.  It won't be easy and it might be downright ugly, but if it has to be done, it has to be done.  When I did it, after a respectful discussion, my grandmother agreed that it was time.  She gave me her keys.  I came by after work and the car was gone--she had spare keys!  I ended up mechanically disabling the car.

One thing that can ease the situation is to make sure that the loss of driving priveleges does not mean a lack of freedom.  Whether it is friends, family, dial a ride or whatever, he will still need to go out at will and not be imprisioned in his home.

The belligerence is a stage of the disease that lasts for about 1-2 years, no getting around that.  At some point, you will have to take over paying of his bills, doing his taxes and other financial issues.  At that point, you should expect an even greater level of resistance.  When that time comes, keep a spreadsheet of exactly what you are doing money wise, so that when he gets angry with you (he will) and accuses you of stealing (he will), you can show him where every penny has gone.

It's an awful disease.  My advice to you is to cherish the good days.

Ride Safe,

Alien

[Challenger]

We were so lucky in the aspect that when my wife had to take her mom to get a new drivers lic.  on the way there, Mom stated that she just wasn't sure she should drive anymore. When they got to the DMV she opted to get an Il. ID card instead of a lic.  What a relief that we have to worry about one less thing.

[0leman]

Several years back my Mom fell and broke both elbows (she was 93 at the time, now pushing 97).  I thought at the time that may do her in, boy was I wrong.  She is mentally alert and could drive.  I convinced her to not drive once she was able to go home, she still lives alone.   She has several friends at her call to take her to store, church and a Pantry for folks needing food.  I pushed her slowing reaction times for not to drive anymore.   Yes, the car is still in her garage, it gets used every so often by friends.   It was a tough road to go down but it has to be done. 

I don't envy you trying to take the keys away.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Man after reading your guys stories it makes me realize how lucky I have been with my parents. Hopefully that will hold true with my inlaws also. My FIL doesn't have Alzheimer's but his driving skills have deteriorated in the last few years.

[Grumpy]

Makes me think of my next door neighbor, he had a couple minor incidents with his driving. A few months ago he drove off the road into a field. The state trooper that stopped, saw the previous events and made a suggestion to him, go to the dmv and surrender your license and I will for go writing you a ticket for failing to maintain control of your vehicle.  Thank fully he complied and is no longer driving and has moved in with his son, which they had tried to do for several years. Some times a helpful officer is all it takes.

[Karen]

Enlist the aid of the Doctor, have them give a medical excuse (low blood pressure, they could black out). You need to not be on their bad list. Eventually they forget, but let the doctor take the heat. No way do I condone taking away driving privileges for age alone; some people have great minds forever (Wayne comes to mind). Cases of Dementia, or Alzheimer's, are different, and should be handled once the  diagnosis is in place.

[houstone]

We got our Dad to agree to an assessment from a 3rd party.  That came back negative and he gave in.  He was still mostly aware, so that helped, but it was still sad for all of us. 
Good luck,
Jeff

[solo1]

I'm not sure that compliment is deserved, Karen, but thank you.

Deviating some from the subject of seniors loss of driving skills, but along similar thoughts (loss of communicating) i watched a documentary recently on Netflix. called "Alive Inside" by Micheal Rossato-Bennett.

It is a story about how a simple Ipod and headphones can give the gift of music to seniors who have advanced Dementia or Alzheimer disease.  The transformation from vegetarian to new awakenings on the part of Victims is very touching.  At 87 years old I can speak my piece and say it brought tears to my eyes.  Bringing back a loved one from the depths of Dementia (you know what i'm talking about...........Nursing homes with patients slumped over in wheelchairs, drooling) without drugs is amazing!!!!!

Watch It.  Netflix or buy it on Amazon or.... No, i'm not selling it.

wayne, solo1

[Jersey mike]

Hello all,

I'd like to take a minute and thank everyone for taking a few minutes to reply, I know it's a very personal issue and there is no single correct course of action.  This is not something I would not wish on anyone.

My wife is on the front lines with this almost every day and my patience has been worn thin but I know I need to be there to support her and be the one she vents to. it breaks my heart to see my wife have to go through this with her dad, the man who was her biggest supporter growing up. The stories I have been told about trips they took together when she played club and college soccer. He was always there for her.

Before I got married I heard all the typical horror stories about in-laws and I have to say I guess I got lucky because aside from my mother-in-law worrying too much, they have never given me one problem.

Her father is not the man I met over 20 years ago. He cannot write out a check, remember a conversation from one minute to the next, or even shop for groceries with a list. Last week the supermarket check out clerk told my wife her dad went into the store 4 times in about a 20 minute span and each time walked out with 2 boxes of chocolate ice cream bars, his favorite snack, but never knew he was just in the store.

As I said in my original post, this time has come for him to stop driving, before he hurts someone. That's something I won't be able to live with, if push comes to shove I'll play the bad guy, with luck he'll forget it ever happened. We've already taken away his F-150 about 7 months ago because he came home one day w/ a big long stripe from the passenger door to the rear tire and didn't know how it happened.

Sorry to ramble on and again THANK YOU, your time is greatly appreciated.

Mike

[cookiedough]

Hang in there and I know it's tough.  Had to take my mom (has alzheimers/dimensia/hallucinations) out of her house for her own safety until she got on the right meds to control her hallucinations seeing people thinking people were breaking in and spying on her, even her calling the local cops a few times.  I tricked her into going in to her regular medical dr. and before bringing her in, talked to her regular dr. to get a psychiatric appt. with the shrink dr. same day right after regular drs. appt. who could prescribe meds to get rid of all the bad thoughts.  It worked doing it this way and that way NOT blaming me (the family) but was DRS. orders, NOT mine, but in the meantime had to temporily put her into the psych ward of the local hospital with a bunch of older folks 2-10x's worse than mom was.  That is when we also found out she had alzheimers as well hiding it from us as well not even 68 years old yet.  Man, that was super tough as well.  Talk about your double whammy,  I was crying over all of this at once.  

Psych dr. would not let her go home after release from psyh ward had to put her into assisted living for a few months until we felt it was ready to go home after cleaning up the house (pack rat had so much crap in that house had to burn/dumpster a lot of it) so she could walk around safer. Her closets are still full of old clothes she wore from the 1970's or even earlier.  

Hardest part was telling her she could NOT go back home until better, broke my heart.  

Another thing you need to do is tell his neighbors if friends what is going on.  If they are life long friends like our neighbors are to my parents, they will probably be more than willing to help and they did several times for us and continue to take her recyclables downtown to recycling center every 2 weeks or so and snowblow the sidewalk in the winter.  

So far, so good, but her short term memory loss is not good.  Just was there today to visit/mow her yard, and she asked me the same question 3x's in a row all within 5 minutes.  It use to bother me when she did that, but nothing you can do so just keep answering her same questions, not like she would remember what I said though.  

You may end up having to also get an agency specializing in home visits 3-4x's per week to help out with chores in home and errands running around locally and if for nothing else, if they get along, for the company/companionship.  WE did that and my mom enjoys I think when they visit for 30 minutes per day, especially when the lady brings her 3-4 year old daughter and visits with her and talks.  Boredom is horrible if left all alone as we age.  For me now,  I enjoy being alone for a change but am sure once older with no kids, etc., will become bored as well.  Mom also enjoys search a word books keeping her busy a few hours per day I buy for her.  Meals on wheels in your area is another good idea we do since she doesn't cook much anymore.

As far as driving, have not had that issue since my Dad knew when it was time to relinquish the keys in his early 70's about 3-4 years before he died.  Surprised at the end the last few years he wanted me to drive which was a VERY good thing.  My mom never had a drivers license ever so she is a stay at home mom/parent all her life taking care of my Dad who was clumsy (3 spinal cord surgeries).  

I suggest go the Dr. route and have the Dr. explain to him about dimensia and driving don't mix and maybe he will listen to the Dr. somewhat relieving you so he doesn't get mad at just you.  If his yearly physical is coming up,  might be a good idea to discuss with Dr. first and make sure it is discussed in his next Dr's visit.  It might sink in, it might not??  You can ONLY try things and trying is the key vs. just doing nothing.  Do something, try something, you have to!!!

Good luck, alzheimers and dimensia is a bitch not just for the patient, but I think just as bad for the family.   My problem is not driving, but keeping my mom safe and home alone as long as possible and keeping her busy since she doesn't want to go anywhere (stayed at home all her life not a social person with any friends, just her life was taking care of my Dad the past 15+years of his life forced to retire from his job after 33 years at only age 55 when I graduate high school.  I knew depression for mom was going to set in right after Dad died, but it came much sooner and far more severe than we ever thought it could.  

She really thanks me for coming over every 1-2 weeks if even for 1-2 hours of mowing her yard and filling up her pill boxes of which the agency we hired makes sure she takes so she doesn't slip back into weird thoughts.  Loneliness all alone can make the mind wander if no hobbies and not kept busy or have much to do.  

Another thing I might add is does your wife have other relatives for support or suggestions on running by stuff with them?  In my case it is just my older brother and although we get along somewhat (tolerate each other but don't do much together anymore), it is his wife I don't care for much.  She stuck her nose in where it didn't belong once and I told them both off thru all of this-got my blood boiling and trust me, I have a temper that doesn't forget.  Family support is nice, but only if constructive and not fighting over what to do. 

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Most have already covered the main points and how difficult it is. Going through this with my mother in law. Fortunate for us when she started showing early signs of the disease and was having these black out episodes my father in law talked to her about harming someone else or herself and she agreed to give up the keys about 2 years ago.  We make sure we are available to take her wherever she needs whenever she needs. Hate seeing this happening to such a sweet person. Wish you the best in dealing with things in your family as I know at least at some level what you have to do. 

[Patrick]

Alzheimers and autism are on the increase. I'd sure like to know why. I have my thoughts, but, apparently no one really knows why.
Alzheimers is a terrible disease and I feel for any one that has to deal with it. My father died from it 15 years ago and then my mother from a broken heart 4 years later.

[Robert]

Alzheimers and autism are on the increase. I'd sure like to know why. I have my thoughts, but, apparently no one really knows why.
Alzheimers is a terrible disease and I feel for any one that has to deal with it. My father died from it 15 years ago and then my mother from a broken heart 4 years later.

Awareness, understanding and research about them is making diagnosis more complete in these areas, that is the reason to the uptick in stats. Also not accepting old age as a classification for any of these so people seek treatment more.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Alzheimers and autism are on the increase. I'd sure like to know why. I have my thoughts, but, apparently no one really knows why.
Alzheimers is a terrible disease and I feel for any one that has to deal with it. My father died from it 15 years ago and then my mother from a broken heart 4 years later.

Awareness, understanding and research about them is making diagnosis more complete in these areas, that is the reason to the uptick in stats. Also not accepting old age as a classification for any of these so people seek treatment more.

While these contirbute to the uptick, I feel there is more to the increase. It's not just more diagnosed. There are more and more people being afflicted with it and has got to be more to it. JMO

[Anthony]

Been there with my father in law,
when we figured out it was really not safe for him to ride,
we first locked up the car keys, but he found them somehow, & went for ' a trip '.
result : scratches on 1 side of the car, but he did not remember what had happened.
did he hit a road sign, a bike or a car?

tried the doctor route, but he would not believe him : 'the dr is teaming up with you !'

locked up the keys better, long enough for him not to care anymore about taking a ride.

meanwhile got him on different medications, which made him less stubborn and hostile, but turns him almost into a pet that does can not leave your side, and can not be left alone.

quickly after that sold the car.
he did not care anymore, or forgot he ever had a car.

my mother in law now has to take care for him 24/7, instead of worrying about him.
luckily she is there for him.

there is no good outcome, but with the right meds, the process can be slowed down, when started on the beginning, which is unfortunately when nobody recognizes all the signs.

if you care for him/her, it does not matter who takes the heat and makes the bad decision in his place when they need to be taken.


if he/she is not letting go of their car yet:
make sure there is a big sign in the car (with the car documents) and in their wallet, with his/her personal information, and contact info to reach a contact person.
just in case they get lost, and bystanders can understand how the give the best help.

a complete stranger once recognised him in being lost at some gas station, and drove in front of him to show him directions to his house, for 1/2 hour, just to get him home, but in his own street he still drove by his own house 5 times without recognizing it.

it is an awful disease, and everyone involved hates every step of it.
wishing you all the strength in this dark issue.

Anthony

[cookiedough]

My grandpa did that late in his life in the 70's driving around aimlessly in another town not knowing where he was.  He had to get rescued by the town police to get him home safely a few times.  Pretty scary stuff.  He was diabetic though and gave himself his own shots, guessing that was it more so than alzheimers.

Has anyone ever noticed as we age, even in my 40's,  we forget where we put stuff near weekly like pieces of papers or vehicle keys and 1-3 days later, even weeks, they show up right where you put them last?  I even misplaced my perfect sized (used it often) bungee cord strap for near 1 year and walked by it this spring probably right where I left it 1 year ago in the cluttered basement-pissed me off I knew it was in the basement somewhere.  Makes me happy they give you 2 sets of vehicle keys and I always make a spare set for the cycle/scooter and house, have had to use them several times until the original set magically reappears.   

As far as meds, my mom is on 10mg of Namenda 2x's daily to help slow the process down supposedly.  Not so sure it helps much, but better than taking nothing I guess. 

I don't know if alzheimers is just more well known now and diagnosed better/more often vs. just stating old age is kicking in.  Hard to really tell IMO.  Sure seems to be more and more cases of it though the past several years.  Maybe the next generation (kids in school now) will be better off being smarter supposedly?  Not so sure though, some lack the common sense that older age/experience provides. 

[WNGD]

Don't count on it being easier in the next generation since most of them are diagnosed with some combination of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder or wose, clinical depression....

What no one has suggested here is a bit of a preemptive strike. My Dad is 90 next week and did 99% of the driving with Mom although she is licensed and drives herself when necessary. Maybe 10 years ago, we had an important conversation. BEFORE it's an issue, we had a talk about having to voluntarily give up your driver's license before you hurt someone and also the fact that you  seldom recognize the issue in yourself and the need to accept someone else's vision when you don't see it yourself. It's easier to agree that your son or daughter will be right, when it's not an issue yet. I hope that makes sense.

There came a time a few years ago when he was still a competent driver but started hugging the shoulder more. I Noted but it was better than hugging the center line. His reaction time started to slow but still not dangerously so.

He had been having random balance issues and fell without hurting himself seriously, several times.
Before a doctor's appointment, I spoke with his doctor about my concerns and the result of his appointment was 90 days off driving to see how his head bump worked out. His doctor suggested it was time to consider voluntarily giving up his license before he hurt himself or someone else. In any event he would have to be re-tested.

During that 90 days, he swung from "I'm going to keep my license" to "I'm going to keep my license but just for emergencies" right! to finally "you know, I don't think I need to drive any longer"
I congratulated him on the right decision and I think he just wanted it to be his

It would have been hard but I would have had to insist he stop driving. In the subsequent year, his balance issues have gotten worse, he uses a walker mostly and his reaction times as far as emergency gas to brake would be nil. He can be a bit forgetful but no Alzheimers that I'm aware of.

I feel we dodged a bullet and Mom can still drive him to our place for Sunday dinner, the bank etc. I just moved them into an assisted living facility last week, more like a 5 star boutique hotel that was another tough argument due to one living room/bedroom but now they love it - tons of new friends and excellent meals takes a load off Mom who is 85 and in generally excellent health.

That's a long rant to basically say: have the conversation early before its necessary and very few recognize their own deteriorating skills (and neither will we!) and enlist the doctor's help as the bad guy.