A letter to Justice Kennedy

[Chrisj CMA]

Chris, my personal religious philosophy is a little different.  In Matthew 10, vs 14 Jesus said, "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town."   I will testify about my Faith only if some one asks.

It's not evangelism but it sure is easier to live with.  I ignore the common phrase "Shoving religion down our throats"

In this age I have shaken the dust from my feet.

s1, my statement has noting to do with evangelism.  Just plain and  simple, the only thing that can save man from himself is God.  The founders knew that, despite  being of varied religions, they were very careful to honor the true God in setting up how this nation would run, the laws that would govern its people and it has been profitable for a couple hundred years.  The last few years, not so much.  The more we back away from godly principles the deeper we fall into the consequences of rejecting God.  Im not shoving anything down anyones throat. Its the opposite that is the problem.   The reason this immorality is so widespread is that Godly men have stood by and done nothing too long.

[solo1]

Chris, please don't take this the wrong way. That was my personal opinion.

Evangelism means to exhort, educate, witness and convert.  It's been my experience on this or any forum that any form of quoting the Bible, except to other believers, results in nothing but pushback, not worth it to me. Again, IMHO.

That's all on this subject for me.

[Chrisj CMA]

Chris, please don't take this the wrong way. That was my personal opinion.

Evangelism means to exhort, educate, witness and convert.  It's been my experience on this or any forum that any form of quoting the Bible, except to other believers, results in nothing but pushback, not worth it to me. Again, IMHO.

That's all on this subject for me.

ok, I wont take it the wrong way (I hope)   

[Alien]

I absolutely understand and respect that this ruling goes against what Christians believe is God's law.  However, the thing that some (and only some) Christians don't seem to understand is that people with different faiths/beliefs feel just as strongly in their hearts that their beliefs are correct.  No one is changing anyone else's mind on this topic.  Not going to happen.  One thing that Christians need to stop and consider is that their faith is in no way being threatened.  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

Although I am in complete polar disagreement with the Christian viewpoint on this issue, I do respect those that hold those views and their right to express them.  It is never my intention to show disrespect toward anyone's religious beliefs, whether I share them or not.  

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

[Master Blaster]

Does anyone else see the connection with this and whats happening in our schools, this gender natural thing that they are pushing??  What we are seeing is a full frontal assault on our way of life.  Social engineering on all fronts.

[Chrisj CMA]

I absolutely understand and respect that this ruling goes against what Christians believe is God's law.  However, the thing that some (and only some) Christians don't seem to understand is that people with different faiths/beliefs feel just as strongly in their hearts that their beliefs are correct.  No one is changing anyone else's mind on this topic.  Not going to happen.  One thing that Christians need to stop and consider is that their faith is in no way being threatened.  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

Although I am in complete polar disagreement with the Christian viewpoint on this issue, I do respect those that hold those views and their right to express them.  It is never my intention to show disrespect toward anyone's religious beliefs, whether I share them or not.  

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

You illustrate my point perfectly.  You have every right to reject God.  Look around and you see the consequences everywhere is all I am saying.  At this point it is not even a matter of opinion, only those that don't want to see it will disagree.  That's all for me too.

BTW. If you noticed, I didn't try to pressure you or anyone to do anything

[Alien]

I absolutely understand and respect that this ruling goes against what Christians believe is God's law.  However, the thing that some (and only some) Christians don't seem to understand is that people with different faiths/beliefs feel just as strongly in their hearts that their beliefs are correct.  No one is changing anyone else's mind on this topic.  Not going to happen.  One thing that Christians need to stop and consider is that their faith is in no way being threatened.  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

Although I am in complete polar disagreement with the Christian viewpoint on this issue, I do respect those that hold those views and their right to express them.  It is never my intention to show disrespect toward anyone's religious beliefs, whether I share them or not.  

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

You illustrate my point perfectly.  You have every right to reject God.  Look around and you see the consequences everywhere is all I am saying.  At this point it is not even a matter of opinion, only those that don't want to see it will disagree.  That's all for me too.

BTW. If you noticed, I didn't try to pressure you or anyone to do anything

You assume that I reject God because I disagree with you.  I don't reject God.  I reject the divisiveness of organized religion. 

[mike72903]

You are all entitled to your beliefs.  However, you are NOT entitled to force others to conform to those beliefs.  Nothing that the Supreme Court did was unconstitutional in any way.  Times change, suck it up.

Alien

The quoted story of Lot was a real revelation.  While homosexuality is bad, the lives of my daughters have little value and it's perfectly acceptable for me to sell or barter them away as a commodity.  They are going to be really disappointed.  But hey, they're only livestock.  Maybe I can barter one to pay off the remaining mortgage.
Agree with Alien.  To try and base a crowded society of millions based on rules established by a sparse nomadic society living near extinction, when life was little more than a struggle for survival, messy and short cannot work.  Times change, suck it up

[scooperhsd]

There are 2 3rd rail topics on most any internet forum - politics and religion.  If you have to discuss them, please keep it civil and not personal.

That said - I am not much of an organized religion fan myself - but I'm not going to go off and put them down either.  And nobody is forcing anybody to get into a homosexual relationship / marriage that they do not want to be in.

That said, I'm happily married to my female spouse and have no intentions of leaving her (28 years in August for us).

[Robert]

Interesting Ci but there is no understanding of how our country and society was formed. As for Lot he knew they were homo so women would not interest them he also knew the angelic nature of the men so again I don't think you really understand.

   If we toss out the Constitution, and we have for 3 percent of the population by changeing the definition of marriage then what are we going to base each persons rights on? When the Constitution and this country was formed there was a phrase "God given rights" that would not allow the government to usurp power it was not given. If all rights come from the government then your rights can be taken away at the governments whim. But if they are God given rights then no man can take away those rights. That is what is changing today, government is the supplier. Now when they tell you that you have no rights I wonder if someone will tell you, suck it up. Who's going to decide if things are correct or good for everyone rules change at the whim of who's in the government. This is part of the reason this decision about gay marriage is so bad because it was supposed to be Congress and the people that decided it not the courts. They like the current government took authority they did not have. They did not establish marriage and technically they cannot define it either. But we go along and are lead by the nose by these people. If you think that the government will not do bad things do you realize that in 1910 there was only income tax on 2 percent of the population. Now we are debt slaves to the government and really don't own anything. So even if you do not fear God the men who wrote the Constitution and first came to this country did. They structured things to give the citizens the rights that they left their country to have. The did not want anyone to take those rights away knowing the debaucery of man. We see it today in every illegal executive order an example of the trampling of the Constitution and the rights the Founding Fathers wanted to instill in each citizen. It would have been great if you and others had understood these ideals and considered them important enough to die for. This country was ruled for 150 years by only the May Flower compact. In 200 more we have lost most all the rights given to us by these great men because most dont understand what they are giving up or the correct procedure to decide things. 

Colt Ford - Answer to No One ft. JJ Lawhorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnSbBuf9f4

We are like the frog being boiled in the water. Since he was put in the water when it was cold he doesn't feel the water getting hotter and hotter till hes dead.

[Oss]

I have not read the whole opinion yet but have read parts

What makes it interesting to me is the nature of the dissents and what they had to say about the
group that created the majority opinion

although the bible condemns the behavior of sodom  it is also clear that choice belongs to free men and women

That the many states disagree means a person can leave a state and do as is allowed in that state

To me the 10th amendment says marriage laws are a state issue not a federal issue as it is not something specifically given to the federal government by the people or the states.

Creating a federal right has for right or wrong been deemed necessary to avoid due process and equal protection problems,  this I believe is the loophole the court uses as it has on so many issues before

It greatly troubles me that a religious group may be forced to suffer a fine penalty or other
tax or loss of tax free status for following its tenets.  If this happens the next SCOTUS may well
swing the other way      What religion will feel the heat first?

This issue is not final except to allow men to marry men and women to marry women so as to have the same rights and men and women who marry if I understand the briefs I have seen so far

[BF]

I absolutely understand and respect that this ruling goes against what Christians believe is God's law.  However, the thing that some (and only some) Christians don't seem to understand is that people with different faiths/beliefs feel just as strongly in their hearts that their beliefs are correct.  No one is changing anyone else's mind on this topic.  Not going to happen.  One thing that Christians need to stop and consider is that their faith is in no way being threatened.  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

Although I am in complete polar disagreement with the Christian viewpoint on this issue, I do respect those that hold those views and their right to express them.  It is never my intention to show disrespect toward anyone's religious beliefs, whether I share them or not.  

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

So, telling people to "suck it" is respecting their opinions.  I see now why you're so damn screwed up.  That's my opinion...so you can go suck it.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

I absolutely understand and respect that this ruling goes against what Christians believe is God's law.  However, the thing that some (and only some) Christians don't seem to understand is that people with different faiths/beliefs feel just as strongly in their hearts that their beliefs are correct.  No one is changing anyone else's mind on this topic.  Not going to happen.  One thing that Christians need to stop and consider is that their faith is in no way being threatened.  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

Although I am in complete polar disagreement with the Christian viewpoint on this issue, I do respect those that hold those views and their right to express them.  It is never my intention to show disrespect toward anyone's religious beliefs, whether I share them or not.  

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

So, telling people to "suck it" is respecting their opinions.  I see now why you're so damn screwed up.  That's my opinion...so you can go suck it.  

BF, you know damn well the terms "suck it up" and "suck it" are completely different.

[Willow]

...  They will not be forced to act against their beliefs and marry someone of the same sex.  Isn't it enough you live your faith?  Why do you insist that others live it too?

I don't think anyone is in fear of being forced to marry someone of their own gender, but as to the question of being forced to act against one's faith you may want to consider the several businesses that have been sued and charged with discrimination for not agreeing to be a prt of a homosexual wedding.

As to the trailing two questions, does it occur to you that you're asking that of the wrong group?

A big issue with the Supreme Court decision was the blatant devaluing the result of the voters in certain states by declaring the Constitution to guarantee something that it absolutely does not.

...  The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Let's hold off a few years before we decide who is unimaginably stupid.  I'll get back to you on that one.  Did you leave out polygamy intentionally?  I'm pretty sure that's the next natural step.  Of course we have long failed to restrict women from marrying animals.  

As to an argument of how marriage between one man and one woman is strictly basing itself on a single, or a few, religion's stance, can someone point out to me a significant historical religion that recognized marriage as valid between two men or two women?

I'm actually against the idea of government at all getting involved in deciding who is or who is not married except that it begins to complicate such things as taxation, ownership, and inheritance.  Our lives are more complicated than they need to be, aren't they?  

cursed, Meathead.  cursed.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Willow, you are bound and determined to learn me some of that cursed English. 

[Serk]

As to an argument of how marriage between one man and one woman is strictly basing itself on a single, or a few, religion's stance, can someone point out to me a significant historical religion that recognized marriage as valid between two men or two women?

Some interesting reading here, interesting to me at least, your interest in it may or may not be there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

[Bighead]

I am not judge or jury here but if you believe in GOD and his teachings you certainly know this is wrong.
There are no what if's or but's in the religion of Christianity.

[98valk]

Like the Days of Noah and Lot

Matthew 24:37-39 ...'But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.'

Also, what about the 'days of Lot'? ....

Luke 17:28-30 ...'Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.'

So what was it like in Noah's day, before he entered into the ark and in Lot's day before God destroyed Sodom? ...

IN NOAH's DAY - Genesis 6:5,11,12 ...'And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.'

IN LOT's DAY - Jude 1:7 ...'Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.'

So the earth in the days of Noah was full of people who rejected God and walked after their own flesh and served their own interests. And the earth was full of violence. And what about during Lot's day in Sodom? God's Word says that the people of Sodom had given themselves over to sexual fornication and 'strange flesh', which is homosexuality. So Jesus is saying that the world in the end times would 'mirror' what it was like in the days of Noah and Lot. Do we have a world like that today? Absolutely!

Not only do we live in a world full of violence and sexual immorality, including homosexuality. These things have become the 'norm' with violence and sexual immorality being turned into ENTERTAINMENT!! The world is now ENTERTAINED by the very things that God DESTROYED the world and Sodom for in Noah's and Lot's day!

Since 2001, 14 countries have fully legalized homosexual marriage, Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, Sweden, New Zealand, Uraguay, France, with parts of North and South America doing the same. And the list is growing all the time. And yet what did God's Word say in Jude 1:7? That Sodom was set as an example to us! And what did God do to the people of Sodom? He destroyed them with fire!

Things were so bad back in Noah's day that God even repented of making mankind on earth Genesis 6:6 ...'And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.' ... We cannot imagine the anguish of our loving Heavenly Father when He looked down upon the earth and saw no one (except Noah) living a Godly life. It was so bad that God said ... Genesis 6:13 ...'The end of all flesh is come before me.' ... God will only bare with people's wicked ways for so long, before Judgment comes upon them. And we are living in a day that is exactly like the days of Noah and Lot!

[Oss]

1st promise to Noah after his sacrifice is accepted by the Lord

 “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

“As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease.”




So far so good I suppose, but the lesson is to each of us to live our lives
with respect for the Lord's words and respect for each other.

Perhaps it is more difficult for Wickedness to thrive where there is respect
for ourselves and others

I leave the definition of evil to each of you   To me one who wants me dead simply
because I exist, that is the definition of evil and I reserve my right to send him to hell 1st

[3fan4life]

The one argument surrounding this issue that I will gleefully show blatant disrespect for is the "Now that gays can marry, next it will be pedophiles marrying children, siblings marrying each other, men marrying animals, etc."  That argument is poorly thought out, invalid and unimaginably stupid.

Ride Safe,

Alien

You can argue all that you want.  But, This will be the next front in this battle.

[Alien]

No...it really won't.  Marriage is defined as a union between two consenting adults.  Here's how what you're worried about won't happen:

Bestiality:  Bestiality is illegal.  Also, Animals cannot give legal consent

Pedophiles marrying children:  Pedophilia is illegal.  Also, Children are not adults and cannot give legal consent.

Siblings marrying each other:  Incest is illegal.

Ride Safe,

Alien

[MP]

No...it really won't.  Marriage is defined as a union between two consenting adults.  Here's how what you're worried about won't happen:

Bestiality:  Bestiality is illegal.  Also, Animals cannot give legal consent

Pedophiles marrying children:  Pedophilia is illegal.  Also, Children are not adults and cannot give legal consent.

Siblings marrying each other:  Incest is illegal.

Ride Safe,

Alien

Marriage WAS defined as between a man and a woman.  SCOTUS just changed that.  Nothing prevents them from changing it again.

Marriage between same sex, marriage between people of different races USED to be illegal, just as in your examples above.  They are NO LONGER illegal.  There is NOTHING to prevent the laws from changing AGAIN.

It is easy to say something will NEVER happen, because it is illegal TODAY.  NOTHING prevents the law from being changed, and suddenly the illegal that will NEVER HAPPEN, is suddenly legal.

MP

[musclehead]

You are all entitled to your beliefs.  However, you are NOT entitled to force others to conform to those beliefs.  Nothing that the Supreme Court did was unconstitutional in any way.  Times change, suck it up.

Alien

then by your definition 'they' are not entitled to force us to conform to their beliefs. it's not a one way street.

there is nothing in the constitution that covers marriage, gay or conventional.  it should fall to states rights as there is nothing specifically outlined in it.

[Alien]

[/quote]

then by your definition 'they' are not entitled to force us to conform to their beliefs. it's not a one way street.

there is nothing in the constitution that covers marriage, gay or conventional.  it should fall to states rights as there is nothing specifically outlined in it.
[/quote]

Absolutely!  I agree 100%.  No one has the right to force anyone else to conform to, live by or accept their beliefs/ideology.  I also agree with you on the state's rights issue.

Ride Safe,

Alien