Flags the next step

[dreamaker]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

[The emperor has no clothes]

1) women's right to vote
2) civil rights
3) emancipation
Would be my top 3

[The emperor has no clothes]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

57, but it feels more like 87

[Serk]

1) women's right to vote
2) civil rights
3) emancipation
Would be my top 3

Those were all 50 - 150 years ago... I was thinking more "Last 20 years" evidently...

[Serk]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

57, but it feels more like 87

Proof that with age comes wisdom isn't always the case, seeing as you're quite a bit my elder... 

[dreamaker]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

57, but it feels more like 87

Your still a young kid, that explains allot. LOL

[The emperor has no clothes]

1) women's right to vote
2) civil rights
3) emancipation
Would be my top 3

Those were all 50 - 150 years ago... I was thinking more "Last 20 years" evidently...

Proof that youth only sees so far ? Seriously though maybe that's where the descrepancy lies. 

[dreamaker]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

57, but it feels more like 87

Proof that with age comes wisdom isn't always the case, seeing as you're quite a bit my elder... 

Wisdom can come with age, if you kept it your pants, and paid attention along the way.  One of my hobbies was people watching, "What made them tick, why do they move"  and I am fair with my observations. The truth is in front of you, you just have to pay attention, no magic involved.

[G-Man]

Although I am a supporter of gay rights, I am disturbed by the idea of businesses being forced to do anything.  I firmly believe that a private enterprise should have the right to refuse service to anyone.  At that point, public opinion will dictate whether or not they will remain in business, not the state.

I don't believe that a business should have the right to refuse service to just anyone,  but I definitely do agree that the business should have the right to avoid participation in something that goes against the owner's religious beliefs.  There is no real comparison between the "gay wedding" and refusing blacks or christians, or jews, or whatever.  I don't believe that any one these are against a certain religion.   I may be wrong, I am no religion scholar.   However, homosexuality is.  

Hey, why not just give a waver to a business who doesn't wish to participate in gay weddings?  This list would include caterers, photographers, florists, bands/DJs, bakers, limos, tux renters, dress stores, etc.  

Then we could let the market take it's course.  I'm sure there are plenty of bakers out there who do want their business and would be glad to take the job.  Aaaaaaaaaand, you don't have to worry about what you'll get from someone who's being forced to take the job that they don't want to do, and who doesn't want your repeat business.  

[Gavin_Sons]

i support gay marriage, i support the idea that they deserve to be as miserable as the rest of us straight married people. 

I believe if you own a business you should be able to pick and choose who you do work for and who you don't. If a gay couple came into my bakery and wanted a gay day cake, i would have to decline because it is against my beliefs. And i'll stick to those beliefs until the day i die.

[Serk]

Meathead,
 I am curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how old are you? My reasoning is that different generations have different views and opinions. We tend to judge other by our own actions and experiences. "You can't understand and explain pain, if you haven't experienced it" Its about brainstorming the issue.

57, but it feels more like 87

Proof that with age comes wisdom isn't always the case, seeing as you're quite a bit my elder... 

Wisdom can come with age, if you kept it your pants, and paid attention along the way.  One of my hobbies was people watching, "What made them tick, why do they move"  and I am fair with my observations. The truth is in front of you, you just have to pay attention, no magic involved.

I respect age...

...when it's bottled! 

[Willow]

What we seem to come down to is that some people have more rights today than they did yesterday (however long ago you choose to define yesterday as).  It almost appears that granting previously ungranted rights (freedoms) to someone will by definition diminish (restrict) rights or freedoms to others.  Whether you view the freedoms as increasing or decreasing will depend upon which side of that line you stand.

I am ready to concede to meathead that he has more freedom today than he did some two hundred years ago.  I might even go so far as to acknowledge that he has increasing rights today as opposed to a few short decades ago.

There are a lot of us on the other side of that line.  Most of us on that side are concerned not only with the whittling away of our current rights but with the direction those changes are taking us. 

I personally believe that the emancipation of the slaves was a good thing when its time had come.  I'm not so certain of granting the right to vote to women.  I'm pretty negative about the restrictions of the right to bear arms.  I do believe that all citizens disregarding differences of race, religion, and gender should be treated with equal rights and respect.  I'm concerned about the definition of the separation of the church and state changing from what it once was as the state will not interfere with religion to its more present tone of we will not allow religious beliefs to speak to the state.

I'm pretty sure that meathead and I stand on opposing sides of several lines but I like his choice in motorcycles.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't disagree with anything you just stated Willow. Especially the motorcycles 

[dreamaker]

Far a business, the way I see it is simple! Business is business!!   I have a product you want, you pay me, you now own it,  Simple!!  It is none of our business about ones sexual orientation, or if they like wearing women’s underwear, or vise versa, who the pray to, and so on.  If you make it personal, than it is not business.  I am not a judge, we are not judges, so we don’t have the right to judge others that are different than us, that is the right and the job of a higher power , if you believe in, not ours. Treat people like the way we want to be treated.

[oZ]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

[signart]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

That was good said.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

That was good said.

Just goes to prove Churchill wasn't always 100% correct. I'd bet about all of the black "citizens" of the south didn't have "great pride" for that flag (and still don't). Of course one could argue all the "citizens" did have pride as per secession declarations blacks where not equal so couldn't have even been "citizens".

From the famous Cornerstone speech by Alexander Stephens:

“Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

[The emperor has no clothes]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

That was good said.

Just goes to prove Churchill wasn't always 100% correct. I'd bet about all of the black "citizens" of the south didn't have "great pride" for that flag (and still don't). Of course one could argue all the "citizens" did have pride as per secession declarations blacks where not equal so couldn't have even been "citizens".

From the famous Cornerstone speech by Alexander Stephens:

“Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

No, that was well said 

[signart]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

That was good said.

Just goes to prove Churchill wasn't always 100% correct. I'd bet about all of the black "citizens" of the south didn't have "great pride" for that flag (and still don't). Of course one could argue all the "citizens" did have pride as per secession declarations blacks where not equal so couldn't have even been "citizens".

From the famous Cornerstone speech by Alexander Stephens:

“Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

The U.S. flag flew over slavery for 85 years prior to the war between the states. The flag in controversy never flew over slavery of any country. It's a battle flag, it never represented slavery. They have it wrong again, they hate the wrong flag. Thousands of black Confederate soldiers, and Cherokee Indians fought under the battle flag of the Southern states. They hate the wrong flag. The U.S. flag is the flag that flew over slavery and flew over the ships that brought them to this country. The U.S. flag flew over the obscene, barbaric history with the American Indians. Is that why we fly the American flag, because we're proud of that? Hating on the wrong flag if hating a flag is justifiable. That's the point of the OP, it's next.
 
Blacks were treated just as poorly or worse in the north before, during, and after the war between the states. Can you imagine the working conditions in those northern factories and the living conditions of the negroes of the time. If Lincoln had lived, being the racist he was, he would have moved to deport the entire black population to the jungles of South America. He did not want to live among the black people, read his words.

If you think the winners of the war, if you call them that, (the north suffered about 75,000 more casualties than the south, despite 3 to 1 odds, but what's 75,000 lives) cared so much about the black race to send a now estimated close to 500,000 lives to their deaths, you need to lay off the Kool-Aid and study history. The truth is hard to swallow for many.

[Bighead]

100% correct preach it brother and educate the unknowing libs don't Want to hear the truth
All caught up in fiction.  ,

[dreamaker]

I am going to put myself out on a limb, I am looking for some clarity here.  Who actually are the people or group that want to exterminate the confederate flag. I have heard refer to liberals, who are liberals, or is that an excuse not to point fingers. We tend to get cryptic in our discussions, I assume that is because some of us feel this board may be monitored by outsiders. So my point is who are the complainers. I am trying to figure something out, may not be right, but I am trying to give it a shot.

[Serk]

I am going to put myself out on a limb, I am looking for some clarity here.  Who actually are the people or group that want to exterminate the confederate flag. I have heard refer to liberals, who are liberals, or is that an excuse not to point fingers. We tend to get cryptic in our discussions, I assume that is because some of us feel this board may be monitored by outsiders. So my point is who are the complainers. I am trying to figure something out, may not be right, but I am trying to give it a shot.

Just my take, but there's a certain group that is working hard to divide this country up and keep each "side" bickering against the other "side". Trying to divide us among white/dark, rich/poor, gay/straight, male/female and any other division they can come up with...

As long as we're busy taking shots at each other, we're not stopping them from raping us I 'spose...

[dreamaker]

I am trying to figure out the common denominator here, could this issue mean something different to people in other parts of the US. To me, at this point, the root is not about the flag. I see it as another thing to criticize, and another elimination of a so called symbol of offending a persons.  Far as the flag, it don't offend me in any way, it is part of history, it is part of the past, and the past is in the past! We learn from the past, we don't live in the past.  But some people choose to live in it, because they constantly demand sympathy, for something we had nothing to do with.

[signart]

I am going to put myself out on a limb, I am looking for some clarity here.  Who actually are the people or group that want to exterminate the confederate flag. I have heard refer to liberals, who are liberals, or is that an excuse not to point fingers. We tend to get cryptic in our discussions, I assume that is because some of us feel this board may be monitored by outsiders. So my point is who are the complainers. I am trying to figure something out, may not be right, but I am trying to give it a shot.

 The racist organization, naacp for one, but mostly politicians on both sides that are whores for votes which equals power and money for all of them. The bBattle Flag which stood peacefully was offered up as the cause and solution to all the black problems by the tearful white republican politicians in S.C.
Now as Oz pointed out,
http://libertynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/vsu-flag-stompers.jpg
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20141010/381746_burn-flag.jpg

Light was shown accidently on something else that will have to be defended.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The flags of the Confederate States of America were very important and a matter of great pride to those citizens living in the Confederacy. They are also a matter of great pride for their descendants as part of their heritage and history.”

Winston Churchill

That was good said.

Just goes to prove Churchill wasn't always 100% correct. I'd bet about all of the black "citizens" of the south didn't have "great pride" for that flag (and still don't). Of course one could argue all the "citizens" did have pride as per secession declarations blacks where not equal so couldn't have even been "citizens".

From the famous Cornerstone speech by Alexander Stephens:

“Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

The U.S. flag flew over slavery for 85 years prior to the war between the states. The flag in controversy never flew over slavery of any country. It's a battle flag, it never represented slavery. They have it wrong again, they hate the wrong flag. Thousands of black Confederate soldiers, and Cherokee Indians fought under the battle flag of the Southern states. They hate the wrong flag. The U.S. flag is the flag that flew over slavery and flew over the ships that brought them to this country. The U.S. flag flew over the obscene, barbaric history with the American Indians. Is that why we fly the American flag, because we're proud of that? Hating on the wrong flag if hating a flag is justifiable. That's the point of the OP, it's next.
 
Blacks were treated just as poorly or worse in the north before, during, and after the war between the states. Can you imagine the working conditions in those northern factories and the living conditions of the negroes of the time. If Lincoln had lived, being the racist he was, he would have moved to deport the entire black population to the jungles of South America. He did not want to live among the black people, read his words.

If you think the winners of the war, if you call them that, (the north suffered about 75,000 more casualties than the south, despite 3 to 1 odds, but what's 75,000 lives) cared so much about the black race to send a now estimated close to 500,000 lives to their deaths, you need to lay off the Kool-Aid and study history. The truth is hard to swallow for many.

It is amazing how bitter some still are over losing the Civil War.

[signart]

..and even more can't get over slavery or a flag flying over a monument, and blame it for all their troubles.

[GiG]

If you think the winners of the war, if you call them that, (the north suffered about 75,000 more casualties than the south, despite 3 to 1 odds, but what's 75,000 lives) cared so much about the black race to send a now estimated close to 500,000 lives to their deaths, you need to lay off the Kool-Aid and study history. The truth is hard to swallow for many.

3 to 1 odds?
I never realized Las Vegas set a line on the Civil War at 3:1 

[signart]

Of course, that's what they do.  3 to 1 is bad odds against any Rebel
Go UNLV! Go Rebels!

[GiG]

Art:
Vegas is not allowed, by law, to make odds on any in-state action including UNLV Running Rebels...
CHEERS
GiG