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dreamaker
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« on: July 20, 2015, 04:16:39 PM » |
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MacDragon
Member
Posts: 1970
My first Valk VRCC# 32095
Middleton, Mass.
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 05:03:08 PM » |
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I read this earlier... what a farce. It should never fly... at least I hope it doesn't.
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 Ride fast and take chances... uh, I mean... ride safe folks. Patriot Guard Riders |
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RP#62
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 05:06:48 PM » |
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Great, that'll encourage those who need mental heath to get it (sarcasm font)
-RP
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 05:13:43 PM » |
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I'm thinking it would be appropriate for some of everyone's SS payments to be used for ammo/guns. Poetic anyway.
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PAVALKER
Member
Posts: 4435
Retired Navy 22YOS, 2014 Valkyrie , VRCC# 27213
Pittsburgh, Pa
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2015, 06:34:04 PM » |
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Surprised.......yes, surprised they didn't or don't try to ban guns from those folks on welfare, SSI, unemployment, in Section 8 Housing etc......since I believe those folks might be more inclined to commit crimes with guns, than old folks on Social Security. Naaaaaahhhhh, they want them to have the means to rob the old folks without resistance....
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John  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 07:29:03 PM » |
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It is for people on Social Security disability, SSD (not Social Security retirement) (and VA disability) who have been found unable to responsibly handle their own money (with appointment of a fiduciary, usually a family member.... someone who receives and distributes their benefits in their behalf). While this is often mental, it is also mental coupled with physical disability and age.
For financial irresponsibility, at least with VA (I do not know about SS), there is a due process system in place (notice, right to hearing, right to submit evidence/argument, right to be represented, a decision applying the evidence to the laws and regs, and then a right to appeal.. probably twice). And in VA, the adjudication process begins with a presumption in favor of not declaring a veteran incompetent of handling his own money that must be rebutted by clear and convincing evidence.
The big problem is they want to do it with no further due process. Just make it automatic, bootstrapping incompetence for money, to incompetence for firearms. And considering that involves a fundamental 2d amendment right, it is just so much BS. Even assuming without conceding that 50-70% of financial incompetents are indeed unsafe with firearms, it is ridiculous to assume that 100% are unsafe with firearms.
Grandad may like to drink and gamble and give his money away to old veteran buddies too freely for his family's liking, but he may still have a very good handle on right and wrong, not be mentally disabled to any serious degree, and still be the best shot in the family (and the only one in the family to have ever been through basic training, and fired a gun in self defense).
There either has to be a 2d complete due process procedure put in place to cover revocation of firearm rights (for each individual), or more practically, when new financial irresponsibility actions are commenced, that procedure will have to include full due process on firearm rights at the same time.
Keep in mind, many truly psychotic or schizophrenic individuals on SSD or VA disability have already committed (and been convicted) of one or more offenses sufficient to already have lost their firearm rights. And those that have not have no business with firearm rights. But that is just the extreme of mental disability. SSD is all or nothing total disability (but may be based on a collection of disabilities), but for VA you may be disabled at anywhere from 0-100% (on the same collection of disabililties).
Just because someone has demonstrated a sufficient history of financial irresponsibility with their benefits to have a fiduciary appointed does not mean they are insane, or don't know right from wrong, or pose a legitimate risk of harm to themselves or others. However, if they do, and it is shown in an individual due process hearing, then (and only then), they should lose their firearm rights.
We 2d amendment advocates have been telling politicians and the media and the G to stop punishing law abiding citizens for the wrongs of criminals, and to stop blaming guns rather than crazy people who use guns. We should support any legitimate effort to keep firearms away from crazy people. But a legitimate effort must include due process of law for each individual. Not for classes of individuals.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 07:38:57 PM by Jess from VA »
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da prez
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 05:22:50 AM » |
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So I am on the dis-ability end due to physical injuries. I bet if I fall into the catch-all, I will never be able to get out in my lifetime.
da prez
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czuch
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 07:05:48 AM » |
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Paint it with a broad brush and done concern yourself with the individual rights.
Thats the common good. For the collective, donchaknow.
Its a grab. Theyre trying everything other than that which would just start the 2nd revolution.
Maybe, if you give up your SS paynments. you can buy back the right.
Kinda like what they said about Veteran's benifits.
Its in place people, support private sales and a box a week.
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Aot of guys with burn marks,gnarly scars and funny twitches ask why I spend so much on safety gear
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Serk
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 07:12:29 AM » |
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The temperature's going up my fellow frogs...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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dreamaker
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 07:13:04 AM » |
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You have to understand something, first, it is called typecasting, this mean one is locked into a certain image or assumed personality. So based on that, anyone on SSD is a whack job, or anyone taking Prozac could be a serial killer, old people have mattresses full of money, and my favorite, all old men are perverts. Correct!! First they deal with SSD and VA people, and if it pans out, then it could be the SSI people, then it will be the SSA. Keep in mind, they are testing the waters right now, they are watching public reaction, and they may back off. You know when someone cries wolf enough, the public tend to ignore the issues, and the attention is not there. That is when they put the hammer down. Correct me if I am wrong and if I recall. Prez Wilson waited till congress was out of session, maybe holiday, and enacted the fed resev act. And the fed resv was born, fed resv has nothing to do with our gov, but sets financial standards and prints our money. Get the idea! So my point is, all these issues that appear to be stupid, may just be strategy, and just trying to wear the public down. SSD maybe the first step. History is our best teacher!!
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FLAVALK
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 07:26:09 AM » |
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There was a discussion on FOX yesterday with a liberal hack who said "If a person on SS is irresponsible with their own lives , how can we trust them with a gun?" The response was that if a similar law was suggested, such as, if a voter cant take care of themselves and their family, then they should not be allowed to vote, the liberals would all go nuts..... Touché
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Live From Sunny Winter Springs Florida via Huntsville Alabama
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2015, 07:27:53 AM » |
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The temperature's going up my fellow frogs...
Most of the frogs are drooling, slack jawed, jock sniffing, social media, reality TV addicts who don't care what's happening. |
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