Beware of cheap oil filters

[Jess Tolbirt]

ok here we go,, a post below reminded me of this so i thought i would start a thread on it.
i put a motorcycle specific filter on my bike from wal mart,, one of them chrome ones,, after about 2000 miles i saw oil under the bike on the floor, i know i shouldn't get excited cause its a Harley but i did anyway,,turns out the oil filter worked its way loose and here is the explanation i got as to why..
 the rubber in the cheap filters is cheap and as it ages  it shrinks ,, with the quality filters the rubber seal is a better quality rubber and when oil hits it , it swells up,,thats why when you put the filter on by hand you need a filter wrench to get it off,,so be ware folks,, i could have cratered an engine because of the 2 dollars i thought i was saving by buying cheap filters,,

[cookiedough]

be more specific than just one of those chrome ones at walmart, what brand/mfg.?

I've been using hi-flo or carquest branded WIX filters both black in color for around 5 bucks each for over 6 years now.  doesn't get much cheaper than that I don't think?

I've heard some bad stories of fram filters though on vehicles.

Boy, this should get the pot stirred up just like what is the best oil to use?

Cheap sometimes doesn't mean no good.  Any oil filter sitting for years/decades on the shelf can have rubber seal issues I suspect.  I had once a dealer OVER tighten their OEM filter adn was so tight it cracked the rubber seal and got another free oil change out of them soon afterwards. 

[mrtappan]

I've used Mobil 1 regular car filters for years on every bike I own.  My Yamaha Roadliner made for cross country trips with cheap motorcycle oil and Mobil 1 car filters.  Never one problem. Even at both intervals to check the valves, not out of spec. 

I've also never bought an oil filter at Walmart either because Autozone is simply closer. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

ok here we go,, a post below reminded me of this so i thought i would start a thread on it.
i put a motorcycle specific filter on my bike from wal mart,, one of them chrome ones,, after about 2000 miles i saw oil under the bike on the floor, i know i shouldn't get excited cause its a Harley but i did anyway,,turns out the oil filter worked its way loose and here is the explanation i got as to why..
 the rubber in the cheap filters is cheap and as it ages  it shrinks ,, with the quality filters the rubber seal is a better quality rubber and when oil hits it , it swells up,,thats why when you put the filter on by hand you need a filter wrench to get it off,,so be ware folks,, i could have cratered an engine because of the 2 dollars i thought i was saving by buying cheap filters,,

Was it the chrome Fram one ? That's the only chrome one I remember from Walmart.

[J.Mencalice]

Operative word: "WalMart".
WalCrap...they sell just that.  Most of their Chinese stuff falls apart in less than a year.  I hate the place and avoid it at every turn.
They are closing stores at night because of all the dregs that hang around them with mostly shoplifting on their minds.
Sam Walton would be ashamed of what became of his business and would disown the family members who have turned it into everything that he was against as an honest employer.

Right, save a couple of bucks and then throw $1500 for a new engine?
Not this boy.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Operative word: "WalMart".
WalCrap...they sell just that.  Most of their Chinese stuff falls apart in less than a year.  I hate the place and avoid it at every turn.
They are closing stores at night because of all the dregs that hang around them with mostly shoplifting on their minds.
Sam Walton would be ashamed of what became of his business and would disown the family members who have turned it into everything that he was against as an honest employer.

Right, save a couple of bucks and then throw $1500 for a new engine?
Not this boy.

I buy my purolators and my Mobil 1 at Walmart. I think it's the same as at other stores. But I know what you mean, I'm not a fan either but I do shop there on occasion.

[Beer van Huet]

We had a fatality in Germany some time ago for this very reason.
Valkyrie Rider with pretty decent mechanical skills bought and installed a cheap oil filter (own brand from a motorcycle wholesale store).
Investigation revealed that the filter fell off his bike on the autobahn depleting his entire oil quantity right in front of his rear tire.
Family discussed a lawsuit but decided not to proceed.
I'm buying OEM Honda oil filters and use the specified torque value with a wrench ever since.

[Pepmyster]

 
I'm buying OEM Honda oil filters and use the specified torque value with a wrench ever since.
[/quote]

 

[Rams]

<<< Wouldn't use a Fram if it was free.

Always do the research and find out the filtration micron count.   K&N filters are made for greater flow/volume but don't filter as well.   Mobil 1 and Puralator Gold filters have lower micron filteration numbers.    Consumer Reports normally has some good information available if you look.

[Hooter]

   There is an old expression that my grandfather stated years ago that I have stuck by. I've heard it for years since then: "The cheap will become the expensive". Harley has nothing to do with it. You know as well as I do the the newer Harleys do not leak any more than any other brand. I have two of em and there isn't a drop of oil on the floor, even uinder my 96 springer. They leak just as much as my Valk does. I still use OEM filters. Ya more expensive than others but have never had a problem.

    I rebuilt a motor for a buddy's "H" and put good money into it. When It was done I sent the motor back to him. Just before 300 miles it detonated. He sent to motor back to me and I pulled it apart. I found the oil pump / lubricating system full of something. It was like "fibre" then made a call back to him asking him about the oil he used along with the filter? He said he was running dyno oil when it lunched with a Fram filter. Fram, that was it. Pieces of filter had plugged the oil system up and it basically burned up.
    I asked him why a Fram? He said it was cheap. I explained what I had found  and I asked him why he put all that into $ into a motor just to run a cheap oil filter? Not much explanation! Same thing happened to a guy on the Road* forum. Newly rebuilt motor ate a Fram filter an did the nasty to his nice rebuild. I wouldn't put a Fram filter on any motorcycle, ever.

[solo1]

I almost always use factory OEM oil filters. On the Vstrom using the advice from the V forum, I used a NAPA, no problem. The Suzy dealer was too far.

The same goes for spark plugs. Factory recommended only. I once deviated from that on a Toyota truck.  I replaced the NKGs with Bosch super duper 'premium' , The plugs actually started misfiring, went back to NKG's,  ok.

[Jess Tolbirt]

not sure of the brand right off hand but its the only chrome ones they sell

[art]

VERY interesting. I've had two vehicles go bad after going to a quick lube for an oil change. One was a GMC pickup, rod bearings suddenly started to knock. It had full oil in the oil pan. Second was a Kia, the oil pump went out. Lots of work to replace the pump. Now I do my own oil change.

[MarkT]

I believe going cheap on oil and the filter is a false economy.  They are important for preserving the much more expensive engine, and are relatively cheap.  Mobil1 for me and Honda filters.  Which have the check valve for oil pressure faster while starting. My bikes always have the best clean oil they can have.  To me it's like your bike's blood.

[Patrick]

I too believe in good oil [ Mobil 1 or Rotella] and filters. We have used Fram since it went in business and have installed about a bazillion of them with no failures. We only use the TG series. As in most things mechanical, there is a right and a wrong way to do things.

[9Ball]

We had a fatality in Germany some time ago for this very reason.
Valkyrie Rider with pretty decent mechanical skills bought and installed a cheap oil filter (own brand from a motorcycle wholesale store).
Investigation revealed that the filter fell off his bike on the autobahn depleting his entire oil quantity right in front of his rear tire.
Family discussed a lawsuit but decided not to proceed.
I'm buying OEM Honda oil filters and use the specified torque value with a wrench ever since.

..and I thought I was the only one using a torque wrench on oil filters and drain plugs...

[Hooter]

I too believe in good oil [ Mobil 1 or Rotella] and filters. We have used Fram since it went in business and have installed about a bazillion of them with no failures. We only use the TG series. As in most things mechanical, there is a right and a wrong way to do things.

I use Fram on my pickups and have for years, never an issue.  Just won't use one on a bike again after the two instances I mentioned. To each  his own.

[Steve K (IA)]

I too believe in good oil [ Mobil 1 or Rotella] and filters. We have used Fram since it went in business and have installed about a bazillion of them with no failures. We only use the TG series. As in most things mechanical, there is a right and a wrong way to do things.

I use Fram on my pickups and have for years, never an issue.  Just won't use one on a bike again after the two instances I mentioned. To each  his own.

I have used the higher end (not cheap) Fram filters forever.  My last car, '94 Maxima I put 230,000 miles on it in 17 years and it was mechanically Solid.  No oil use at all.
Now I have a Titan and continuing with what works.
Oh, and nothing but Valvoline oil in anything that has 4 wheels. 
PS;
Never tried Fram on the Valks.  After the warranties ran out,  I switched from Honda oil and filters to Rotella T6 and cheap SuperTech filters, but now using yellow Purolater filters (painted black)  .

[cookiedough]

I hear Rotella T6 is good stuff in the 4 gallon jug cost of only 20 bucks.  I am starting to use it in the blue synthetic jug 5w-40 for my Can Am ATV's that also recommends 5w-40 synthetic oil after good reviews vs. the Can Am branded quart of oil at over 12 bucks per qt. - that is NUTS.  Even the Can Am ATV branded oil filter is 14-16 bucks each while can get for 1/2 of that in HF152 or KN152 model thru hi flo or K&N with just as good of results, if not better.

Thankfully,  mother Honda does not overprice their Valkyrie oil filters and are good to use but the Honda branded oil is a tad bit higher in price IMO over other just as good oil out there IMO.


As far as Fram,  I never used their oil filters nor ever will.  I have heard one too many horror stories and independent lab tests on certain Frams (you never know nowadays if it is good or bad quality with any company to be honest changing designs, etc.) oil filters test poorly.     For example,  I have heard AC Delco oil filters of which I use to use on my GM products all the time are now made in China and poor quality oil filters. 

Some argue that K&N has great flow rate, but poor filtering allowing dirt/dust to pass on thru, especially on their air filters for say ATV's more so where dust is prevalent.  I have 2 ATV's with K&N air filters and so far (knock on wood) no engine issues.  You just never know nowadays, even WIX or Purolator's can be bad??  Like I said, cheap may not be necessarily bad and and pricey oil filters may not be necessarily good. 

 

[3fan4life]

I'm an Amsoil guy through and through.

There are plenty of good oil and filters out there but I am convinced that Amsoil is the best and I want nothing but the best for my fat girls.

I definitely don't believe in using cheap oil or filters on anything that is worth having.

I also recall getting "called" out pretty severely in a similar thread a few years back for my stance against using CHEAP Walmart filters and Oil.

[Jess Tolbirt]

I'm an Amsoil guy through and through.

There are plenty of good oil and filters out there but I am convinced that Amsoil is the best and I want nothing but the best for my fat girls.

I definitely don't believe in using cheap oil or filters on anything that is worth having.

I also recall getting "called" out pretty severely in a similar thread a few years back for my stance against using CHEAP Walmart filters and Oil.

i was one of those that called you out on the filters after i contacted fram (signal filter) and got some info from them,, seems times have changed for me, i will run factory filters from now on,,i dont believe the mavis beacon act will save us any more for using something not specifically stated for something...

[fudgie]

Fram mc filters for 75,000 miles plus. No prob.

[Patrick]

I'm an Amsoil guy through and through.

There are plenty of good oil and filters out there but I am convinced that Amsoil is the best and I want nothing but the best for my fat girls.

I definitely don't believe in using cheap oil or filters on anything that is worth having.

I also recall getting "called" out pretty severely in a similar thread a few years back for my stance against using CHEAP Walmart filters and Oil.

i was one of those that called you out on the filters after i contacted fram (signal filter) and got some info from them,, seems times have changed for me, i will run factory filters from now on,,i dont believe the mavis beacon act will save us any more for using something not specifically stated for something...

What kind of info did you ask for or receive ?


I've read what I could from them regarding their testing and why they build the product the way they do.

[DK]

I often cut the filter open when I change the oil. You can learn a lot from what you find both as to the quality of the filter and the interesting tidbits you find when you expand the filtration media.

I use Honda filters and IMHO, they are well made. I also use Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. It's more expensive than the cheap stuff but spread over 6,000 miles not that much.

I use a Fram as an intake filter / muffler for my air compressor. Why Fram? Because it does not have a one-way check valve.

Dan

[BradValk48237]

I order the Honda filters online.... about 1/2 the price than at the dealer... I think I got 5 at a time....

But that was a while ago.....

B

[Jess Tolbirt]

I often cut the filter open when I change the oil. You can learn a lot from what you find both as to the quality of the filter and the interesting tidbits you find when you expand the filtration media.

I use Honda filters and IMHO, they are well made. I also use Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. It's more expensive than the cheap stuff but spread over 6,000 miles not that much.

I use a Fram as an intake filter / muffler for my air compressor. Why Fram? Because it does not have a one-way check valve.

Dan

i am pretty sure that most all filters now days have check valves but i have been wrong before..

[Jess Tolbirt]

I'm an Amsoil guy through and through.

There are plenty of good oil and filters out there but I am convinced that Amsoil is the best and I want nothing but the best for my fat girls.

I definitely don't believe in using cheap oil or filters on anything that is worth having.

I also recall getting "called" out pretty severely in a similar thread a few years back for my stance against using CHEAP Walmart filters and Oil.

i was one of those that called you out on the filters after i contacted fram (signal filter) and got some info from them,, seems times have changed for me, i will run factory filters from now on,,i dont believe the mavis beacon act will save us any more for using something not specifically stated for something...

What kind of info did you ask for or receive ?


I've read what I could from them regarding their testing and why they build the product the way they do.

i sent them an email got quite a good bit of info from them about the quality and the way they build them..i was told by honda that if i didnt use their filters that would void my warranty,, well they told me if honda sues me for using their product to let them know and we would nail honda to the wall, that was all about the mavis beacon act..but now days thhe way things aregoing i dont know if i would hae a leg to stand on if they said well, you dont have our filter on your bike so we will not warranty it,, almost as bad as harley and pulling trailers and carring flags

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm an Amsoil guy through and through.

There are plenty of good oil and filters out there but I am convinced that Amsoil is the best and I want nothing but the best for my fat girls.

I definitely don't believe in using cheap oil or filters on anything that is worth having.

I also recall getting "called" out pretty severely in a similar thread a few years back for my stance against using CHEAP Walmart filters and Oil.

i was one of those that called you out on the filters after i contacted fram (signal filter) and got some info from them,, seems times have changed for me, i will run factory filters from now on,,i dont believe the mavis beacon act will save us any more for using something not specifically stated for something...

What kind of info did you ask for or receive ?


I've read what I could from them regarding their testing and why they build the product the way they do.

i sent them an email got quite a good bit of info from them about the quality and the way they build them..i was told by honda that if i didnt use their filters that would void my warranty,, well they told me if honda sues me for using their product to let them know and we would nail honda to the wall, that was all about the mavis beacon act..but now days thhe way things aregoing i dont know if i would hae a leg to stand on if they said well, you dont have our filter on your bike so we will not warranty it,, almost as bad as harley and pulling trailers and carring flags

I've never heard of a Mavis Beacon Act. Are you referring to the Davis Bacon Act ?

[MarkT]

Sounds like you are referring to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.  As I understand it, basically says in this context that you can use any consumables you want to w/o voiding the warranty - or they have to provide the consumable free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

[Willow]

If anyone believes that either Honda or Walmart manufactures oil filters I have this bridge for sale ...   

I do think it's a good idea to pay attention to the quality of the oil filter you're using.

[Jess Tolbirt]

Sounds like you are referring to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.  As I understand it, basically says in this context that you can use any consumables you want to w/o voiding the warranty - or they have to provide the consumable free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

yea that's it!! I was thinking of the wrong law suit

[Hooter]

Is it a misnoamer to believe that there are a 50 manufacturers of oil filters? Or, is it like batteries? IF (and the word is IF) I remember right there are only like  3-5 battery manufacturers in the U.S.? They might say Hippo on the battery but in reality are made by Interstate? (Just an example) Not sure how many acutal filter manufacturers there are here and never checked into that at all.

[Jess Tolbirt]

its a misnoamer to think there are 5 battery manufactures when in fact there are hundreds.. i am posting a link to the info rather than the info itself because of the long list:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm

[Rams]

I often cut the filter open when I change the oil. You can learn a lot from what you find both as to the quality of the filter and the interesting tidbits you find when you expand the filtration media.

I use Honda filters and IMHO, they are well made. I also use Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. It's more expensive than the cheap stuff but spread over 6,000 miles not that much.

I use a Fram as an intake filter / muffler for my air compressor. Why Fram? Because it does not have a one-way check valve.

Dan

i am pretty sure that most all filters now days have check valves but i have been wrong before..

I believe you are correct but, the issue is, what's that back flow preventer check valve made of.   Fram used to be made from paper.

Is it a misnoamer to believe that there are a 50 manufacturers of oil filters? Or, is it like batteries? IF (and the word is IF) I remember right there are only like  3-5 battery manufacturers in the U.S.? They might say Hippo on the battery but in reality are made by Interstate? (Just an example) Not sure how many acutal filter manufacturers there are here and never checked into that at all.

Actually, Johnson Controls is (I believe) the largest battery manufacturer in the US.   Couldn't begin to tell you how many different brands of batteries they build.   Or, if Johnson Controls subs out some of it's battery manufacturing process.

its a misnoamer to think there are 5 battery manufactures when in fact there are hundreds.. i am posting a link to the info rather than the info itself because of the long list:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm

Most of the batteries sold in the US for cages are made right here (at least for now).    While the site you posted does list a lot of battery manufacturers, the vast majority are not within US boundaries.     Changes to EPA regulations over the last few years have driven up the cost of manufacturing batteries.   Won't surprise me if there are no battery manufacturers left in the US within the next ten years.    The price of batteries has gone through the roof to almost double from five years ago.    Additionally, the list of battery manufacturers doesn't tell us who owns who.    Wouldn't surprise me if the real answer is many are owned by the same entities and only manufactured under different corporations names for tax and liability reasons.

[czuch]

Honda O/F and Royal Purple oil.
I tried the Mobil-1 and she felt sluggish and worn out. The gears clunked and I wasnt happy.
Researched RP and was sold. Snapped her right up and ran like new. Pricey but thats OK.

[Jess Tolbirt]

I run nothing but royal purple now days and i even found a wix filter for the bike and the truck,, todays oil change for my bike cost me 100 bucs for 7 qts of oil and one filter,,

[Rams]

Honda O/F and Royal Purple oil.
I tried the Mobil-1 and she felt sluggish and worn out. The gears clunked and I wasnt happy.
Researched RP and was sold. Snapped her right up and ran like new. Pricey but thats OK.

Interesting and I'm not doubting your results but.................

I always use a quality filter, used to use Mobil 1 oil but, found a real deal on Royal Purple MC oil and bought a bunch of it.    Now, she clinks more when shifting than before.    Just something I've noticed.    Both are high quality oils, not sure my results are any better or worse than yours.    

[Mr Whiskey]

I use the Purolator Pure One PL14610 on the Valk, but have to use the shorter PL14612 on the Wing to fit inside the cowl with the belly pan. Never a problem with either, change oil & filter every 5k miles, (it's jus' easier to remember that way) & I always rattle can them black with high heat grill paint The only reason I don't go 8 or 10k miles between oil changes (oil always comes out lookin' pretty much like it did when it went in) is I believe your oil looses approximately 50% of its viscosity in the first 1500 miles. I consider 5k to be the upper limit, even for synthetic oil.
These links were posted here (many moons ago) when I started looking for a better filter & I found them very informative so........ here ya go.............
(Oh, & I only run Rotella T6, in everything!!)
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html

[Patrick]

Doesn't anyone use a beer can for a filter cover any more ?  Its always good for a few questions and laughs.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Doesn't anyone use a beer can for a filter cover any more ?  Its always good for a few questions and laughs.

I do. Some people actually believe it's my emergency beer for crossing the desert.