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« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2015, 08:56:47 AM » |
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There are probably many things we could be doing to address this problem, including more "good guys with guns". But we as a society seem impotent to do anything.
Not all of us. Check my belt and pocket next time we ride. There are many of us in our polite "society" that have made the decision to try to protect ourselves and those around us (you included my friend) should the need arise. Funny how these nuts always seem to go where they are in the least danger of running into one of "us". [/quote] And PETA never shows at bike rallies where there is more cow hide being worn and sold than anywhere! |
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G-Man
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« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2015, 09:02:23 AM » |
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Lots of posts indicating that media and games play a role.
While the number of mass shootings seem to be on a rise, let's remember that it is still a few dozen out of dozens of millions who commit these crimes. The numbers are just too low to support that idea.
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indybobm
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2015, 09:13:38 AM » |
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Lots of posts indicating that media and games play a role.
While the number of mass shootings seem to be on a rise, let's remember that it is still a few dozen out of dozens of millions who commit these crimes. The numbers are just too low to support that idea.
Not saying that Movies, TV Shows, and Video Games affect everyone. It only has to affect 1 in 100,000. For what ever reason those few are lost, see no meaning in life, or are just angry. Any idea that I had. What if some of these people want to commit suicide but do not have the courage to do it. They do something so horrendous that they do not leave themselves another alternative other than ending their life. |
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So many roads, so little time
VRCC # 5258
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G-Man
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« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2015, 09:40:11 AM » |
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Lots of posts indicating that media and games play a role.
While the number of mass shootings seem to be on a rise, let's remember that it is still a few dozen out of dozens of millions who commit these crimes. The numbers are just too low to support that idea.
Not saying that Movies, TV Shows, and Video Games affect everyone. It only has to affect 1 in 100,000. For what ever reason those few are lost, see no meaning in life, or are just angry. Any idea that I had. What if some of these people want to commit suicide but do not have the courage to do it. They do something so horrendous that they do not leave themselves another alternative other than ending their life. We're not even talking 1 in a 100 thousand. We're talking 1 in hundred million. Remember, these games are played, and movies are seen worldwide by people of all walks of life, with different economic, family, religious, educational, sexual preference, political affiliation, beliefs. Like blaming Ozzy for one kid's suicide after selling millions of albums. The numbers just don't support it. I also see absolutely NO WAY of getting out in front of that 1 in a hundred million person. Can't report every gun owner who is overheard saying they hate someone, or certain people should be dead, etc. But, like clockwork, sides are drawn and nothing gets done. Obama knows this, but makes his obligatory statement each time to force the divide to show that the right and the NRA are the bad guys while the left allows the innocent to die in the cities with numbers that exceed school shooting by the thousands. |
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old2soon
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« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2015, 10:01:31 AM » |
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A person on a MISSION is as close to near impossible to stop as might be imagined. Their ideology may or may not be known. This most recent doer-has there been a GOOD RELIABLE determination of his ideology? NOT that knowing will change anything that has transpired. In fact knowing the most recent-Oregon-doers ideology probably won't help in the next mass murder. BUT when the next mass murder happens we already know what WILL happen and sadly-what WON'T happen. I notice on my M S N home page it's not on page one today! RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Romeo
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J.A.B.O.A.
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« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2015, 10:28:38 AM » |
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that was 12 minutes of my life wasted. |
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DarkSideR
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To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2015, 12:42:38 PM » |
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that was 12 minutes of my life wasted. Agreed. I don't understand why people listen to foreigners on domestic topics. Absurdity! Plus there are still millions of guns in Australia. Story time. While up at my parents cabin I was being a good responsible gun owner and practicing up on my skills. My kids got interested and also wanted to shoot. My Dad brought out his fathers WWII service gun for the kids to learn on. How cool is that? We taught my kids gun safety because we valued life, we gave them a goal to achieve, and they shot many rounds. Later that day my Dad came to me and said "did you notice what happened out there?". He said, "once the gun was placed in their hands they didn't become evil, or sinister. They didn't kill anyone." No, the time was spent bonding, smiles abound, goals achieved. The value of human life taught. The discipline of handling a gun learned. My children are not allowed to watch violent movies nor play 1st person shooter video games. The more external influence you allow access to your kids, the less influence you have as a parent on your kids. I as a parent am doing my part to make sure my kids live responsible lives contributing too, and not destroying society. And that is something no government can or should do. |
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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2015, 01:37:02 PM » |
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I played with guns at a single digit age. I played 'violent' video games at a young age. I came from a single parent household at a single digit age. Didn't go to church much (few times a yr). I watched violent movies at a young age. I never wanted to shoot up anything.  |
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Willow
Administrator
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Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2015, 01:45:15 PM » |
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Mass shootings (Defined as an event in which 4 or more people were killed by an individual with a firearm) have been remarkably steady for at least the last 35 years... We're averaging about 20 a year. If you take into account the fact that the US population has increased by 40% since the late 1970's we've actually seen a per-capita DECREASE in such activities.  Source - http://posnetres.blogspot.com/2014/02/are-mass-shootings-on-rise-in-united.htmlQuit buying the media narrative that these horrible events are increasing in frequency. Without going thru each event individually for the last 40 years it's hard to determine the differences between then and now. But my experience tells me we didn't have troubled young men armed to the teeth massacring 6 year old kids. There are probably many things we could be doing to address this problem, including more "good guys with guns". But we as a society seem impotent to do anything. I found this exchange very interesting. I think Serk made a very valid point that many of us are allowing the professional media to say something to use that isn't true, that the incidence of mass shootings is increasing over the past many years. I interpreted the response of my friend, meathead, to be, "I don't believe you and no matter how much proof you shove in my face I will continue to believe what I have chosen to believe." I think a lot of us have been that way from time to time. I'm going to give you my tuppence and then I'll move away from this subject. Some of us have pointed at a participant. We've talked about the move away from absolute moral values and the breakdown of the family. They're related. Over the past many years, more than sixty-five, we have moved regularly as a culture away from recognition and accountability to a supreme God and replaced those values with the new age promotion of the acceptance that everyone is himself a god and the the center of his own universe. One's own idea of right and wrong, if such a distinction even exists, is taught to be what is really important to oneself. Honestly, for the vast majority of us it doesn't lead us to commit hideous heinous acts of violence, but as has been pointed out, in a population of many, many millions it only takes a few to get our attention. For what it's worth, I agree with some of the gun control nuts that if all multishot firearms could be removed from the hands of the public these acts would be reduced. Surely those who have decided to murder would continue to murder, but without the firepower accorded by revolvers and automatic pistols the numbers would be lower. Unfortunately I don't believe we can remove access to those multishot weapons entirely from the public. Any attempts to do so will continue to result in a diminishing of the weapons in the hands of law abiding citizens while having little or no impact on the number in the hands of truly evil individuals. Thus my position will be that the best answer is easing the restrictions and allowing more good folks access to the weaponry that is already in circulation amongst the bad guys. I still believe there are more good guys than there are bad guys in this country. I do not believe that movies, video games, and music cause these awry individuals to go awry. I believe that the movies, video games and music are the symptoms of where the culture is. I believe that where the culture has a direct participation in how many and how much the anti-social individuals develop their desires. I believe in a legal and swiftly applied death penalty for those who have demonstrated that they are unable or unwilling to abide by the laws that protect the life and well being of good people. And just so you can see how well rounded I am I will tell you that I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows. ... I don't think we will ever be able to eliminate evil acts until all the evil people have been removed from the world. I believe there are steps we can take to shorten the duration of certain evil acts and I believe we should do so. |
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 01:53:51 PM by Willow »
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2015, 01:50:10 PM » |
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I played with guns at a single digit age. I played 'violent' video games at a young age. I came from a single parent household at a single digit age. Didn't go to church much (few times a yr). I watched violent movies at a young age. I never wanted to shoot up anything. Come on man, we ALL have wanted to shoot up.... certain things. It's just that most of us reasonably refrain from acting on those impulses. |
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 01:52:05 PM by Jess from VA »
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DarkSideR
Member
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To be good, and to do good, is all we have to do.
Pueblo, Colorado
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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2015, 01:51:48 PM » |
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I played with guns at a single digit age. I played 'violent' video games at a young age. I came from a single parent household at a single digit age. Didn't go to church much (few times a yr). I watched violent movies at a young age. I never wanted to shoot up anything. Good thing my post did say it was the definitive way to prevent shootings. But it sure is a good way. |
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Valkorado
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Posts: 10514
VRCC DS 0242
Gunnison, Colorado (7,703') Here there be twisties.
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« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2015, 02:09:36 PM » |
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Agreed. I don't understand why people listen to foreigners on domestic topics.
+1. I also question our participation in the UN. |
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Have you ever noticed when you're feeling really good, there's always a pigeon that'll come sh!t on your hood? - John Prine 97 Tourer "Silver Bullet" 01 Interstate "Ruby"  |
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MP
Member
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1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2015, 03:26:29 PM » |
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And dont forget the many 24 hour news stations.
In the early 70's, my mom, a librarian, had her assistant move to western montana. A couple years later, she and a couple students were killed in a school shooting.
I heard it ONCE on the national news, and a two paragraph write up in our local paper.
Now, it would be 24 hour a day coverage for days, and in the news for weeks.
I think because we hear it so much more, we think it is happening more than it is.
In a nation of 330 million, it is quite rare, in fact.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2015, 03:28:36 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2015, 03:37:31 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2015, 03:53:09 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2015, 04:03:10 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" |
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Bighead
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2015, 04:11:30 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! Only your Goverment wants to take away ALL our Guns. |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2015, 04:12:34 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2015, 04:13:43 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie Yes I do  |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2015, 04:18:07 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie Yes I do Me too, if you were closer Id ride with you and I bet wed agree with a lot more stuff |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2015, 04:33:44 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie Yes I do Me too, if you were closer Id ride with you and I bet wed agree with a lot more stuff How could we not ? After all we are ex-Navy dudes  |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2015, 04:44:19 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie Yes I do Me too, if you were closer Id ride with you and I bet wed agree with a lot more stuff How could we not ? After all we are ex-Navy dudes Lol. I was AirForce, but we worked with some squids....hehe |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2015, 04:56:53 PM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going back to the 1800's. That is not reality.
When will the anti gun grabbers admit it's not the guns, its the degenerat holding the gun that is the problem.
Until the United States of America turns back to God...evil will prevail.
Take away all the guns and some fool will show up with a chainsaw.
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! You wanna bet! However, I was talking hypothetically. But you knew that already. Well then hypothetically , why not allow rocket launchers ? Or better yet we could all have concealed carry nuclear weapons. Dismissing common sense gun control measures does nobody any good. "So what would more laws accomplish ?" We may never know because the response ALWAYS seems to be to any idea "They are coming to take your guns" Sounds like you need a good long ride on a Valkyrie Yes I do Me too, if you were closer Id ride with you and I bet wed agree with a lot more stuff How could we not ? After all we are ex-Navy dudes Lol. I was AirForce, but we worked with some squids....hehe  OK I take it all back Sorry about that. Keeping track of everybody's service is evidently too much for my little brain.  |
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musclehead
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« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2015, 04:03:07 AM » |
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Well stated Alien. I think until we figure what is driving these young men we are doomed for more.
BF, There were people with guns there.
this guy left us clues as to why he went on a rampage, fame and in his mind glory. infamy is a better term, for once the media is doing something right by not putting his name up in lights on every story and web page. he wrote about the fact that if you kill a bunch of people you get your name remembered. much like the morons that run out on the field during professional sporting games, once they stopped showing said idiots they pretty much quit it. no sense getting arrested and not making the highlight film. I remember a story I read in science magazine about people that have genetic markers that make them do what ever they can to be famous. when in fits of despair and depression if they can't be famous, they will be infamous. |
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2015, 04:53:00 AM » |
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Well stated Alien. I think until we figure what is driving these young men we are doomed for more.
BF, There were people with guns there.
this guy left us clues as to why he went on a rampage, fame and in his mind glory. infamy is a better term, for once the media is doing something right by not putting his name up in lights on every story and web page. he wrote about the fact that if you kill a bunch of people you get your name remembered. much like the morons that run out on the field during professional sporting games, once they stopped showing said idiots they pretty much quit it. no sense getting arrested and not making the highlight film. I remember a story I read in science magazine about people that have genetic markers that make them do what ever they can to be famous. when in fits of despair and depression if they can't be famous, they will be infamous. I agree with keeping the killers name quiet. It's hard to understand that this infamy is what drives some of these guys but it seems to. |
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2015, 05:20:29 AM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! Actually, obama did in his speech right after the shootings. He held up Australia as an example of countries that have changed their laws. What did they do? Banned and confiscated the vast majority of guns! By holding them up, he assuridly voiced his support for simaliar laws. |
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"Ridin' with Cycho" |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2015, 05:22:15 AM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! Actually, obama did in his speech right after the shootings. He held up Australia as an example of countries that have changed their laws. What did they do? Banned and confiscated the vast majority of guns! By holding them up, he assuridly voiced his support for simaliar laws. Total BULLSHIT |
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2015, 05:40:03 AM » |
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look how many people Timothy McVeigh killed and he did not have a single gun!
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musclehead
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« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2015, 06:05:42 AM » |
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I played with guns at a single digit age. I played 'violent' video games at a young age. I came from a single parent household at a single digit age. Didn't go to church much (few times a yr). I watched violent movies at a young age. I never wanted to shoot up anything. me too, plus I watched all those violent Warner Bros cartoons with Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy right in the face with a shotgun. |
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2015, 06:09:46 AM » |
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I watched the 3 stooges hit each other with whatever was available. Never tried it on my brothers but I was tempted |
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Serk
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« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2015, 06:15:02 AM » |
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To say that one more gun law, one more gun ban will help in any way is beyond ignorant. To think that any "multi-shot" weapon is the problem demonstrates a total lack of a grasp of reality. You cannot turn back progress, to eliminate multi-shot weapons would mean going
Believe it or not but it is already illegal to commit mass murder. So what would more laws accomplish?
NOBODY IS SUGGESTING TAKING AWAY ALL THE GUNS !!! Actually, obama did in his speech right after the shootings. He held up Australia as an example of countries that have changed their laws. What did they do? Banned and confiscated the vast majority of guns! By holding them up, he assuridly voiced his support for simaliar laws. Total BULLSHIT Quote from Obama's (pbuh) speech: "We know that other countries, in response to one mass shooting, have been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. Friends of ours, allies of ours -- Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours. So we know there are ways to prevent it. " Both of his examples are nations that have implemented near total gun bans with mass confiscation. I think it's pretty clear where he'd like to see us go when those are the kinds of places he holds up as inspiration. Sources: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/10/01/statement-president-shootings-umpqua-community-college-roseburg-oregon |
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« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 08:11:48 AM by Serk »
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Wizzard
Member
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Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2015, 06:23:05 AM » |
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If those countries are so great then he can make us happy and move there. |
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Xtracho
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Posts: 1303
The Bosses
Florida's Emerald Coast
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« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2015, 06:29:13 AM » |
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The notion that removing "multishot" weapons from the firearms landscape will somehow reduce these incidents is just simply untrue and a simplistic attempt at understanding the dynamics of a mass shooting event.
The one driving factor that allows these murderers to exact the heaviest carnage is not the weapon, firepower, or magazine capacity.
The factor that allows these wackos to kill so many is simply....TIME. It would be naive on its face to assume that these people woke one morning and decided that they would leave their home and kill multiple innocents. No, these are planned for the most part. And where else does one of these killers know he will have the TIME to kill as many as he can? Gun Free Zones.
Last week in Oregon, this sicko had 6 minutes to kill and maime so many people.
At 12:30 a.m. the shooter entered the Aurora, CO theater and began his assault. He was not apprehended by police unti 12:45 a.m.
IN 2007, the Virginia Tech shooter was able to make two separate attacks over the course of 2 hours. Although accounts vary, it is estimated that he had a total of 9 minutes during that 2 hour period to squeeze off 170+ rounds and kill 32 people. It should also be noted that the shooter chained the exits at the first shooting site. Again, planning.
In the Sandy Hook attacks, the shooter had 4.5 minutes, then another 5 minutes before police entered the building.
These are just a few examples. If one chooses to research further they will find that the shooters all had TIME on their side. Knowing that there would be no armed resistance to their carnage in so-called gun free zones.
Evil exists, in whatever form you want to make of it. Mentally disturbed, socially disconnected, or just simply wanting to kill. Parsing it into "what can we do to prevent it" is an exercise in futility reserved for those that clamor for answers that are not there.
To remove the advantage of TIME from the equation....the one factor that gives these shooters a huge advantage....the abolishing of gun free zones is mandatory. It's not brain surgery.
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Mark
"To live you must be willing to die" - Amir Vahedi
My father gets smarter each day he is gone.
In the stable:
'84 GW Aspencade
'47 Indian Chief
'98 Valkyrie
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2015, 06:32:08 AM » |
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Serk, what he said is nowhere near "I want laws to take away your guns" . I understand you guys have felt that for the past 7 years, but its still not the case. This is partly why I think it's hopeless to get anywhere with this issue.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2015, 07:50:45 AM » |
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Excellent analysis Xtracho. Time is a very relevant issue in all these cases. There is no question the far left (including Zero) would love to get as close to the near total confiscation of all lawful firearms as England, Australia, and other countries. It will never be possible in this country to achieve that in one or two sweeping laws. It has always been about chipping around the edges, and it is important to note that the so called gun show loophole, and banning all private sales without federal paper, and regulating all transfers has almost nothing to do with cutting down on crime and everything to do with a national licensing and registration scheme (only on law abiding citizens), which will always be the single essential step necessary to begin any form of confiscation. Ask the Nazis and the Communists; that's how they did it. Our constitution gives every free man the right to keep and bear arms, so that is simply off the table without a Constitutional convention. So long as it is clear on it's face that these new (now getting old) attempts to document and regulate all sales is squarely aimed at ONLY essentially abiding gun owners (criminals won't follow these laws, just like they don't follow current laws), all such legislation should be resisted and defeated with righteous wrath. When and if they ever come up with any new law aimed squarely at criminals and not law abiding gun owners, then we can have a rational discussion about it. But since we already have some 10,000 Federal and State gun laws on the books that cover every imaginable criminal use, acquisition, possession, and manufacture of firearms, it's pretty hard to argue that any new laws are either reasonable or necessary. It is the same lefties arguing for ever increasing legal restrictions on firearms, that appoint liberal judges and elect liberal prosecutors, who routinely fail to enforce the good laws already on the books and hand out the kind of criminal sentences that multiple/recidivist offenders deserve. Look at the success of NRA Project Exile in Richmond VA, how it got amazing results, using existing laws to go after violent felons. It got used in a few other cities, but mostly was ignored by the Democratic machines in most violent cities (since it's not popular with their voting base). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ExileHowever, most of these mad dog school/church/workplace shooters do not have any (significant) past criminal records of note. Thus we have the perpetual wringing of hands about how this could have all been prevented if only we had some new more restrictive gun laws. Which of course is a lie. Each time a leftie is asked how his new restrictive scheme would prevent more crime, he is unable to answer (well, he answers with the usual vague generalities and bullshit all of his ilk spew for sound bites). |
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G-Man
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« Reply #77 on: October 06, 2015, 08:18:09 AM » |
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Serk, what he said is nowhere near "I want laws to take away your guns" . I understand you guys have felt that for the past 7 years, but its still not the case. This is partly why I think it's hopeless to get anywhere with this issue.
The "He's Gonna Tak'em Away" thought process stems from the FACT that immediately after EVERY mass shooting like this, Obama and others on the left politicize it by lamenting that SOMETHING needs to be done. And, since nothing short of the removal of all weapons from society will have any effect, and Obama and others on the left make continually make comparisons to other countries that have banned guns,........... well, ............ He's the great community divider. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2015, 08:25:05 AM » |
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Serk, what he said is nowhere near "I want laws to take away your guns" . I understand you guys have felt that for the past 7 years, but its still not the case. This is partly why I think it's hopeless to get anywhere with this issue.
The "He's Gonna Tak'em Away" thought process stems from the FACT that immediately after EVERY mass shooting like this, Obama and others on the left politicize it by lamenting that SOMETHING needs to be done. And, since nothing short of the removal of all weapons from society will have any effect, and Obama and others on the left make continually make comparisons to other countries that have banned guns,........... well, ............ He's the great community divider. You only have 1 more year. Your nightmare is almost over  |
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Serk
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« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2015, 08:28:18 AM » |
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You only have 1 more year. Your nightmare is almost over Actually, we have  days left, but who's counting?  |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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