Trophy Hunting

[The emperor has no clothes]

A recent thread on the Tech Board got me thinking about hunting. I have hunted, fished, and trapped most of my life. Probably 90% or better of the hunting and fishing was for the meat. But I have killed Brown Bears and other animals for the the mount. All of the trapping was just for the skins. Some of the fishing was to try to get a bigger fish than I had previously caught, although all were consumed. None of this was done because I would have starved otherwise but because I enjoyed it. I have never done or would never consider a "canned hunt". To me that's not really hunting but just killing. All of my hunting, fishing, trapping have been on legal animals that are not endangered. And are highly regulated. Now here is my question. And this is not to stir trouble but to see how others view this activity. Do you guys see trophy hunting and fishing, and trapping animals for their skins immoral ?

[Patrick]

Absolutely !

Its been said I'm an immoral person. I have mounts [ animal and fish] hanging in many rooms. I eat what I get, [including the Muskrats trapped when younger.]

That said, I have no use for folks that would shoot Cecil.

[dreamaker]

I am not a gun person, but I don't see any problem with hunting as long as you eat what you kill.  But to kill for unnecessary reasons or pleasure, I think is sad.  I am not a tree hugger, but I try and respect all types of  life.

[musclehead]

not entirely, when a somewhat rich dentist goes to Africa and kills a lion he is paying a boatload of money for the hunt, some of which goes to local villages for wells and other infrastructure.

I wouldn't eat a lion (they would over there) but I'm not into it for a trophy, although I have a couple of mounted deer heads. primarily the hunt was for freezer filler.

[RDAbull]

I have hunted and fished all of my life.  I eat the meat or fish or fowl but that is not the main reason I go.  I go because it is a good way to get out with my friends, enjoy nature and try to emulate my forefathers NEED to have the game to survive.  That said I have never mounted any kind of trophy and really don't want them in my house.  Many of my hunting/fishing mates dens are full of them and that is great for them, just not my taste.  IMHO, canned hunts are an insult to those of us who love nature.

[hubcapsc]

I am pro-hunting, even though I don't hunt.

I don't like the idea of spring traps...

-Mike

[Serk]

not entirely, when a somewhat rich dentist goes to Africa and kills a lion he is paying a boatload of money for the hunt, some of which goes to local villages for wells and other infrastructure.

I wouldn't eat a lion (they would over there) but I'm not into it for a trophy, although I have a couple of mounted deer heads. primarily the hunt was for freezer filler.

What he said... Even though I am a gun guy, I don't hunt, have never hunted and have no interest in it.  BUT I see nothing immoral about someone who wants to, even for trophy purposes, if done responsibly...

These big game trophy hunters are injecting a TON of money into the local economies when they go get their trophies...

[Patrick]

not entirely, when a somewhat rich dentist goes to Africa and kills a lion he is paying a boatload of money for the hunt, some of which goes to local villages for wells and other infrastructure.

I wouldn't eat a lion (they would over there) but I'm not into it for a trophy, although I have a couple of mounted deer heads. primarily the hunt was for freezer filler.

That could be, but, I'd be interested in knowing how much of that money paid to shoot Cecile went to help the local village. As I understand, the dentist paid $50K+ for that.

[Dark]

I had a trap line as a kid, muskrat for the money
Grew up hunting bird and rabbit. Hunt deer now with bow & rifle.
I've never had anything mounted, never will, not my thing. It has always been meat or money for me and the enjoyment of being outdoors along a river or in the fields and woods.
I'm not opposed to trophy hunting, to each his own.

[Jess from VA]

I'm with Serk, I'm not a big hunter though a big firearm fan.  My firearms are mostly for minute of bad guy, not minute of duck, deer or bunnywabit.

I did hunt in my youth, and enjoyed it greatly for the quiet time in the woods and fieldcraft, but I did not like hauling a big deer for miles out of the woods at all, and never gained a taste for most wild game(y) food.  So I quit hunting.  Well, almost quit, but who the hell mounts trophy squirrels?  

Growing up, we always went down to WVa for Thanksgiving, and us three little kids would be put up in granddad's spare (gun) room chock full of giant deer mounts, and they scared us so bad (gleaming amber glass eyes in the dark) mom covered them with towels.  I loved the guns (but touching them meant a paddling).  Granddad also had a world class lifetime collection of Indian artifacts, stone axes, hatchets, skinning tools, arrowheads and bone fishhooks.  

[Patrick]

I'm with Serk, I'm not a big hunter though a big firearm fan.  My firearms are mostly for minute of bad guy, not minute of duck, deer or bunnywabit.

I did hunt in my youth, and enjoyed it greatly for the quiet time in the woods and fieldcraft, but I did not like hauling a big deer for miles out of the woods at all, and never gained a taste for most wild game(y) food.  So I quit hunting.  Well, almost quit, but who the hell mounts trophy squirrels?  

Growing up, we always went down to WVa for Thanksgiving, and us three little kids would be put up in granddad's spare (gun) room chock full of giant deer mounts, and they scared us so bad (gleaming amber glass eyes in the dark) mom covered them with towels.  I loved the guns (but touching them meant a paddling).  Granddad also had a world class lifetime collection of Indian artifacts, stone axes, hatchets, skinning tools, arrowheads and bone fishhooks.  

Who mounts squirrels ?  I do !  Have a couple sticking their heads out of tree whorls with acorns in their little hands. Most folks get a kick out of them.

[solo1]

One of the things that I miss is hunting.  Too much arthritis to make it enjoyable anymore.

I started with squirrels (22).  i graduated to white tails in Michigan with a recurve bow and wood arrows, then a compound with aluminum arrows.  I've hunted mulies in Wyoming with a 7mm mag, back to deer hunting In Indiana with a bow, muzzleloader, .44 mag Super Blackhawk pistol, fishing was for bass, no trapping.

I have never 'canned' hunt and don't believe in it. All my hunting was done in open country.

 Trophy hunting, can't see it but no problem, trapping no problem either.

[hubcapsc]

I had a trap line as a kid, muskrat for the money

So I hate for stuff to suffer until the next day till you get back to
check the traps... but what could you do different?

Would it work to live trap muskrats and then shoot them when
you come back the next day and and find one in your trap?

It's one thing to dislike the suffering that a spring trap can cause,
and another thing to come up with an alternative.

I've spring-trapped squirrels (cute flying squirrels) in my attic -
the alternative is for me to finish the eaves, but that's
not going to happen anytime sooner than next summer, if then.
When it is wintertime and I hear squirrels running around in the
attic when I'm trying to sleep, spring traps or submitting to squirrels being
there are about the only two things I can think of...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

I'm no expert, but hauling a line of lightweight spring traps on your back is doable, but hauling a line of live traps is too heavy, bulky and expensive. 

But even in a small live trap, I watched a guy go thru a whole clip of 22 ammo trying to hit a dodging squirrel at nearly point blank (suppressed pistol).  I backed clear off worried about a ricochet.  Guy was no amateur, an ex fed swat team leader.

I'm not a fan of animal suffering either, and a lot of animals are tough enough to chew off their own leg and then the suffering goes on a long time.

[Willow]

Eating what we kill makes us feel justified in what we do.  It's not the most important factor.  We have eliminated or severely diminished the populations of predators in the wild.  Wisely so, in some cases.  We really don't want them eating our young.  Hunters, trophy or meat, serve the purpose no longer fulfilled by the natural hunters.

I have no problem with trophy hunters when they are taking over-populated nuisance species.  It doesn't make the best of sense to me that trophy hunters take the biggest and best which is the other side of the spectrum from the natural hunters but I don't know a way to redirect that.

I have bad feelings about domestic dogs that run wild and kill game but leave it lying in the fields uneaten.

I guess I do have some conflicts in my logic and feelings.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks for the responses. I think I probably have some conflicts in my logic and feelings also. Like I say most of the animals I've hunted and fished were for food. But I've hunted just for a nice trophy also. Almost all of the animals I've trapped were just for money. I can understand someone's opposition to that. I would hope those in opposition to that understand that it's not about killing. I have killed many animals and have never enjoyed seeing them die. I don't know many anti-hunters but the ones I have conversed with think that hunters enjoy killing .

[Bighead]

I hunted all my life until the last few years ,just don't have time anymore. Never Trophy hunted never mounted anything on the wall.
I still fish and love fishing and don't eat what I catch but I also release what I catch. Only way I would mount a fish is if it were a record of some sort. If I catch a large fish the camera will serve as a mount and the fish is released to swim free.

[MarcusS]

First hunting I ever did was protecting our garden from ground hogs and other critters. It was a full time job.  And yes we ate the groundhogs. My uncles that grew up in the depression loved them. My grandfather taught me to clean when I was 6 years old. We used every means we could think of to kill those critters.  Traps, Carbide gas , shotguns and rifles.  I later became an NRA instructor for the Boy scouts and have even taken bachelor parties on hog hunts and given the gift of firearm sports to hundreds of youth and young parents.  

Being predator or prey is a choice. Blasting prairie dogs or chipmunks for sport is on the line of most what people consider ethical sport. I like the idea that we have a population that is not afraid to pull the trigger when needed. We have a large advantage over any other population in the world.

Outsmarting a wise old prey species is a challenge. I love open range hunting.  My favorite gun is by the front door right now as this Saturday is the opening of Gun deer season in Texas.

In 2010, Texas sold 1,245,532 deer hunting licenses. Those hunters took 576,209 whitetails.

25 years ago I met a local commercial trapper and started to make some runs with him. Two years ago he died and the areas he trapped are now having disease issues due to the overpopulation. If we take out the predators, we should work to keep the prey in check just to keep them healthy.  I actually have a live trap in my back yard and it works to help keep the coons and possum out of my attic.

Next time you run into a person that wants to take away your rights ask them why our founders found it so important to specifically defy that that right shall never be infringed. BATF has been walking all over that.  If you have ever seen absolute idiots with guns at your local gun range you may support more laws. Jacking with ammo is definitely infringing on our rights.

Black powder was so scarce during the revolution that Thomas Jefferson commissioned a Frenchman named Dupont to bring the manufacturing to America. If the people do not have ball and powder they are subjects.

[msb]

Never been a hunter, never really had any interest in shooting animals for sport and never was required to do so for food. That being said, I have no problem with the sport of hunting legally or with those that do (my eldest daughter and her husband up in Northern BC are avid hunters). I am and always have been however, and avid fisherman. As a kid fishing for food every day was a way of life. Most of my adult years have been spent fly fishing... mostly for trout in the thousands of lakes and streams in BC, Alberta, Idaho, and Montana primarilly. Have always been an outdoor enthusiast and fly fishing is right up there with motorcycle riding as a total escape and form of relaxation for me. In BC, all stream fishing is catch and release only with single barbless hook, so I rarely keep fish (the odd one caught in a lake that is too badly damaged gets kept and eaten). I will never give up fly fishing, although sometimes I do wonder how different it really is from hunting animals on land. Maybe because most times you don't see the fish you're hooking, or that fish generally aren't  given names in movies and stories or have nice soft furry coats is why fishing isn't as objectionable to those that are fiercely opposed to hunting of all kinds. In reality, there is no difference. The way I look at it, as long as hunting and fishing is done legally and with respect to nature and the animals, fish and their habitats, it will always be an accepted pastime or necessity for humans.

[cookiedough]

Stack em and whack em as Ted Nugent would say.

I think he is a tad bit over zealous in terms of his hunting philosophy, but his main points are hitting the nail on the head so to speak. 

I'm not a huge fan of 'trophy' hunting, but if some of that money goes back into the local communities to help the locals survive,  I can see the point as long as NO endangered animals are harmed like rhinos or elephants, etc.    I'll NEVER do it, but then again, I don't have 5-30K or more laying around ready to blow. 

Like said previously,  why do 'trophy' hunters pass up a mediocre or above average animal just to hold off on a true wall hanger is not my cup of tea and don't believe in doing that, but to each their own.    I've shot bambies before but no spots still (LOL), and see NO need to hold off on waiting for that 10 point buck to arrive which 99% chance won't happen in the 7-10 day hunting season.   I always say back when laughed at for shooting that small doe that the meat is more tender anyways being so young and you can't eat the horns.   In most deer hunting states I think you shoot one doe and you can go back and get more tags so why wait??  You paid your 20+ bucks in hunting license, might as well fill the freezer.   Back in the day growing up,  I would be anal and calculate how much ground hamburger money we would save vs. buying in a grocery store the hamburger.  At now over 3 bucks per lb. easily for 80/20,  I bet that savings on ground deer meat (beef or pork fat added of course)  for hamburger is cost justified even more so now. 

[Robert]

Profit hunting not ok unless enough population. Killing animals for ivory or skins not ok. Skins hunting where the skins are used and the meat eaten ok.Trophy hunting why? Having a dead animal on your wall to me is creepy. Staging a hunt is for trophy is low and cowardly. If you hunt then hunt with all the chances that come with it and enjoy it for the hunt.

I have never had a problem with hunting for food and although most really don't need it, it reminds us of where we come from, gives many lessons on life and death. Teaches anatomy and how to skin and care for the meat we eat and kill.

We as people have become insensitive on what life is and what food is and where it comes from and what it takes to get it to the table. Maybe if kids would know this it would give them a different perspective on life.

Animals are for the eco system and our use and pleasure hunting done with respect and caring for life is not a problem. Excess regulation by government is not the answer either.  

I have often thought if you need a trophy, do the hunt but with a gun mounted camera. Instead of that a shot take a picture and hang it on the wall. I value life, in all forms, take any life with respect for life and weight the need.

[Patrick]

Didn't bring it up as it wasn't part of the OP, but, when it comes to eating game. I like it. Venison, I don't like steaks, just roasts and ground stuff for sausage. But, the best is putting it in a can. Canned venison is the best.

As far as 'canned' hunts. I'm against them too. And I see no reason for shooting something just for the sake of shooting it or a somewhat endangered or rare species.

Fish. I love to fish. Don't care if I ever see another Lake Trout though. Well, I'll still catch them, but, I won't eat another one.

[solo1]

I value the memories of hunting back in the late Forties.   At that time, I was bow hunting in Michigan.

Very few bowhunters then.  The first week of October was almost always typical Fall days, the smell of fallen leaves, the quiet, I would not normally see any hunter on public land for about a mile or more from where I hunted.

Looking back, my memories are strongest about the beauty of the Michigan woods in the Fall, NOT the memories of eating venison. There were many times that I would fall asleep sitting in the woods, I guess that I was a poor 'hunter'.

Jes my .02

Wayne

[The emperor has no clothes]

I value the memories of hunting back in the late Forties.   At that time, I was bow hunting in Michigan.

Very few bowhunters then.  The first week of October was almost always typical Fall days, the smell of fallen leaves, the quiet, I would not normally see any hunter on public land for about a mile or more from where I hunted.

Looking back, my memories are strongest about the beauty of the Michigan woods in the Fall, NOT the memories of eating venison. There were many times that I would fall asleep sitting in the woods, I guess that I was a poor 'hunter'.

Jes my .02

Wayne

I fell asleep one time. When I woke up a Grizzly sow and 3 little cubs were on the hill straight across from me. I sat there quietly watching them play and the mom eat berries for an hour or so. Then they started to work there way towards me and I lost sight of them. Figured it was time to move on then. One of my favorite memories of bears. 

[0leman]

The 23 years I lived in Wyoming were full of hunting antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk. (I have lived in 8 different states, hunted the most in WY).   Never did get a moose permit.  I Hunted 19 of  those years, removed 18 elk, and a lots of deer and antelope.  When we moved there, hunting filled the freezer.  As the kids grew up and left home and I got more in the paycheck, hunting to fill the freezer was not as important.  That's why I stopped hunting. 

Trophy animals usually are not the best tasting, I have found that the Females of the species taste the best.  Though I didn't really trophy hunt, did get a couple 6 point bulls. 

Since I worked in the woods, hunting was not the same for me as most folks.  I got to see critters daily and enjoy what most folks only saw during hunting seasons.  I have walked up on elk eating, raced antelope on remote dirt roads, and seen many new borns  in the spring.  Wouldn't trade my life for any other.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The 23 years I lived in Wyoming were full of hunting antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk. (I have lived in 8 different states, hunted the most in WY).   Never did get a moose permit.  I Hunted 19 of  those years, removed 18 elk, and a lots of deer and antelope.  When we moved there, hunting filled the freezer.  As the kids grew up and left home and I got more in the paycheck, hunting to fill the freezer was not as important.  That's why I stopped hunting. 

Trophy animals usually are not the best tasting, I have found that the Females of the species taste the best.  Though I didn't really trophy hunt, did get a couple 6 point bulls. 

Since I worked in the woods, hunting was not the same for me as most folks.  I got to see critters daily and enjoy what most folks only saw during hunting seasons.  I have walked up on elk eating, raced antelope on remote dirt roads, and seen many new borns  in the spring.  Wouldn't trade my life for any other.

Sounds pretty good to me. 

[RDAbull]

The 23 years I lived in Wyoming were full of hunting antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk. (I have lived in 8 different states, hunted the most in WY).   Never did get a moose permit.  I Hunted 19 of  those years, removed 18 elk, and a lots of deer and antelope.  When we moved there, hunting filled the freezer.  As the kids grew up and left home and I got more in the paycheck, hunting to fill the freezer was not as important.  That's why I stopped hunting. 

Trophy animals usually are not the best tasting, I have found that the Females of the species taste the best.  Though I didn't really trophy hunt, did get a couple 6 point bulls. 

Since I worked in the woods, hunting was not the same for me as most folks.  I got to see critters daily and enjoy what most folks only saw during hunting seasons.  I have walked up on elk eating, raced antelope on remote dirt roads, and seen many new borns  in the spring.  Wouldn't trade my life for any other.

Plus, you got to live in Klamath Falls.  What a great town!

[msb]

Nice original post Meathead. A lot of great and very interesting replies. Once this working thing nuisance is out of the way, I will have no trouble filling up my days riding the Valk and finding new remote fishing spots.