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DirtyDan
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« on: November 24, 2015, 06:38:04 AM » |
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Serk
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 06:53:20 AM » |
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Turkey is a member of NATO. By treaty an attack on Turkey would be an attack on all NATO members.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who DO study history are doomed to watching it being repeated.
I desperately hope I'm wrong.
(Archduke Franz Ferdinand ring a bell?)
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 07:39:20 AM » |
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Turkey is a member of NATO. By treaty an attack on Turkey would be an attack on all NATO members.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who DO study history are doomed to watching it being repeated.
I desperately hope I'm wrong.
(Archduke Franz Ferdinand ring a bell?)
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw it this morning. I desperately hope you are wrong also. |
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musclehead
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 07:51:47 AM » |
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I already cracked wise on this topic.... they better watch it! this is not a good week to be a turkey.....  |
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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old2soon
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 08:01:37 AM » |
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And from what I read they executed the pilots after a good ejection.  A televangelist I was watching a piece of Sunday touched on how Bible Prophecy and current events seem to be lining up! IF it is Bible Prophecy-I say IF cause folk have been saying THAT for years-we may well be in the end times. RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 08:03:37 AM » |
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Appropriate isn't it ? With Thursday coming up and all. |
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12766
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 09:19:33 AM » |
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When we sit down for our feast on Thanksgiving amid family and friends I lead us
in prayer for our troops both here and abroad who are not with their families
and that they should return safely as well as prayers for those who did not make it home
We have much to be thankful for, to want to protect and to work towards
God bless America
Lets hope we do not find ourselves amid another world war this week as we the people are not prepared
for it
Oss
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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BudMan
Member
Posts: 628
"Two's in."
Tecumseh OK
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 11:31:34 AM » |
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When we sit down for our feast on Thanksgiving amid family and friends I lead us
in prayer for our troops both here and abroad who are not with their families
and that they should return safely as well as prayers for those who did not make it home
We have much to be thankful for, to want to protect and to work towards
God bless America
Lets hope we do not find ourselves amid another world war this week as we the people are not prepared
for it
Oss
I can assure you, your warriors stand ready, no coment on our civilian leadership. |
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Buddy
Tecumseh OK
MOOT# 263
VRCC # 30158
1948 EL Harley
2013 F6B Delux
"I rarely end up where I was intending to go, but often I end up somewhere that I needed to be,"
Dirk Gently; Holistic Detective
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old2soon
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 12:17:18 PM » |
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When we sit down for our feast on Thanksgiving amid family and friends I lead us
in prayer for our troops both here and abroad who are not with their families
and that they should return safely as well as prayers for those who did not make it home
We have much to be thankful for, to want to protect and to work towards
God bless America
Lets hope we do not find ourselves amid another world war this week as we the people are not prepared
for it
Oss
I can assure you, your warriors stand ready, no coment on our civilian leadership. NO Disrespect BudMan I AGREE on our Warriors standing at the ready.  The problem as I see it IS our civillan leadership. The keep firing the Senior WARRIORS. Wussified leadership DO NOT win wars much less engagements.  RIDE SAFE. And most everyone here KNOWS what letter I WANTED to use!  |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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dreamaker
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 03:15:45 PM » |
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Seems like, they are always looking for some reason, to send good people to battle. While they sit back drinking their single malt, reaping the benefits and not suffering the losses.
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Michvalk
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 03:24:51 PM » |
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Seems like, they are always looking for some reason, to send good people to battle. While they sit back drinking their single malt, reaping the benefits and not suffering the losses.
I haven't heard of any Senator's son or daughter being killed in action, in the recent past. It's easy, if it doesn't concern you..... |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 03:29:16 AM » |
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It appears the Russians did violate the airspace and ignored numerous warnings. The shooting seems justified. But the ground troops shot the pilots in their chutes, that is just plain wrong.
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Serk
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 03:37:23 AM » |
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It appears the Russians did violate the airspace and ignored numerous warnings. The shooting seems justified. But the ground troops shot the pilots in their chutes, that is just plain wrong.
It's looking like a "He said, she said" as to if/when/how long the Russian plane was in Turkish air space... http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/11/25/turkey-warned-russian-jet-10-times--us.html |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5232
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 09:17:20 AM » |
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A televangelist I was watching a piece of Sunday touched on how Bible Prophecy and current events seem to be lining up! IF it is Bible Prophecy-I say IF cause folk have been saying THAT for years-we may well be in the end times. RIDE SAFE. Televangelists and book writers have been lining up world events with Biblical prophecy for centuries (well, the televangelists for decades ). World events have come and gone and THE prophesied Antichrist has not appeared (although many antichrists have), and Christ has not returned. |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 10:02:03 AM » |
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Its now being said that Turkey repeatedly entered Syrian airspace with no retaliation. The Russian pilot said no warnings of any kind were given or received and that they were not in Turkish airspace. I can't imagine the Russians not being on a correct freq. . And apparently there were no fly-bys. I think this could lead to some real problems. |
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 04:19:27 PM » |
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Its now being said that Turkey repeatedly entered Syrian airspace with no retaliation. The Russian pilot said no warnings of any kind were given or received and that they were not in Turkish airspace. I can't imagine the Russians not being on a correct freq. . And apparently there were no fly-bys. I think this could lead to some real problems. US forces are saying they heard the warnings given repeatidly. You think thr russian would admit being warned? |
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 "Ridin' with Cycho" |
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 04:58:16 PM » |
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heard warning given is one thing
warning received is another
do a fly buy
put some tracers over the cockpit
rounds could hit someone on the ground yes
so could the flaming plane wreck
this s%$# is scaring the heck out of me
dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 05:08:12 PM » |
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Its now being said that Turkey repeatedly entered Syrian airspace with no retaliation. The Russian pilot said no warnings of any kind were given or received and that they were not in Turkish airspace. I can't imagine the Russians not being on a correct freq. . And apparently there were no fly-bys. I think this could lead to some real problems. US forces are saying they heard the warnings given repeatidly. You think thr russian would admit being warned? Exactly. I can't imagine they didn't have the correct freqs. loaded. I think they were just again flexing their muscle. I think it was a mistake to not 'fly-by' before pulling the trigger. Time will tell. This could become a bad thing. |
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 05:21:07 PM » |
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The Russians conducting operations in Syria and the Turkey/Syrian border is no secret.
This wasn't like "Oh my God (Allah) the Russians are coming!"
The radar track of the Russian plane has it in Turkish airspace for less than a minute.
The Russian plane posed no threat to Turkey.
As was mentioned, just because they warned them over the radio doesn't mean the warning was received.
NATO and Turkish incursions into Syria will now be met with a less than friendly attitude by the Russian pilots.
To say this was handled poorly is an understatement.
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2015, 06:12:02 PM » |
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The Russians conducting operations in Syria and the Turkey/Syrian border is no secret.
This wasn't like "Oh my God (Allah) the Russians are coming!"
The radar track of the Russian plane has it in Turkish airspace for less than a minute.
The Russian plane posed no threat to Turkey.
As was mentioned, just because they warned them over the radio doesn't mean the warning was received.
NATO and Turkish incursions into Syria will now be met with a less than friendly attitude by the Russian pilots.
To say this was handled poorly is an understatement.
This was handled poorly by several.  To say that the Russian fighter jet posed no threat to them is mistaken. Does one already forget their recent history with other sovereign countries ? The Russians were well aware of what they were doing. They have been doing that for decades. |
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2015, 09:27:06 PM » |
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The Russians conducting operations in Syria and the Turkey/Syrian border is no secret.
This wasn't like "Oh my God (Allah) the Russians are coming!"
The radar track of the Russian plane has it in Turkish airspace for less than a minute.
The Russian plane posed no threat to Turkey.
As was mentioned, just because they warned them over the radio doesn't mean the warning was received.
NATO and Turkish incursions into Syria will now be met with a less than friendly attitude by the Russian pilots.
To say this was handled poorly is an understatement.
This was handled poorly by several. To say that the Russian fighter jet posed no threat to them is mistaken. Does one already forget their recent history with other sovereign countries ? The Russians were well aware of what they were doing. They have been doing that for decades. Sorry, I was unaware of Russia's current air offensives on Turkey. I thought the Russian aircraft was engaged in operations in the Syrian theater. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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RP#62
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2015, 05:48:52 AM » |
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Russia has no problem shooting down civilian airliners in their airspace so they above all should understand the ramifications of intruding in others airspace, especially with warplanes.
-RP
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2015, 06:10:51 AM » |
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that is a good point RP
dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2015, 07:55:50 AM » |
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Russia has no problem shooting down civilian airliners in their airspace so they above all should understand the ramifications of intruding in others airspace, especially with warplanes.
-RP
Let's be fair and honest here. I'm guessing you are referring to the Korean Airliner shootdown. We could discuss the US shootdown of the Iranian commercial aircraft too The point is that tragic errors are made and I'm pretty sure the Soviet Union (at the time it was the Soviet Union) and the US both had a big problem with what they did. With Turkey, this wasn't a misidentification. They knew the aircraft posed no threat to Turkey. The incursion was less than a minute in duration and it is not clear if the shoot down occurred in Turkish air space or if the engagement re-entered Syrian airspace. The capture of one of the crew in Syria would suggest the latter. This wasn't an error on Turkey's part but exceedingly poor judgement. This stunt now has Russia deploying air defense missiles in the theater. A theater that we operate in too. Hope cooler heads prevail. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Serk
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2015, 08:18:12 AM » |
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I'm guessing you are referring to the Korean Airliner shootdown.
We could discuss the US shootdown of the Iranian commercial aircraft too
The Russians (And their proxies) have a more recent history of such things... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17Not that that excuses anything from either side, just saying... |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2015, 08:33:11 AM » |
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The russians are attacking, bombing, ethnic people turkey considers part of them. They have a right to protect them.
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"Ridin' with Cycho" |
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Master Blaster
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2015, 08:34:20 AM » |
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Better go buy a ham, there may be no turkey for Christmas.
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"Nothing screams bad craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape."
Gun controll is not about guns, its about CONTROLL.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2015, 08:40:18 AM » |
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With Turkey, this wasn't a misidentification. They knew the aircraft posed no threat to Turkey.
Let's not forget, flying an armed warplane over another country's sovereign soil is an act of war.
Some countries (unlike ours) still take actions to protect their borders and sovereign territory.
Francis Gary Powers airplane was not armed, but military/CIA reconnaissance. The Ruskies had every right to shoot him down.
Whether this was good or bad judgment remains to be seen.
If they fly one over Seattle or Anchorage do you think we should just file a diplomatic protest?
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 08:42:59 AM by Jess from VA »
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2015, 08:43:36 AM » |
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The russians are attacking, bombing, ethnic people turkey considers part of them. They have a right to protect them.
MP I think I disagree Turkey is Turkey Syria is Syria if Turkey is now actively fighting Russia outside of turkey that is WW3 if Turkey wants to take them in as refuges that's fine with me all nations and people should defend their borders and stay out of others dan |
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12766
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2015, 09:29:44 AM » |
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I have to admit that when I first saw the thread topic I wondered how the turkey got the weapon and ammo We need more gun control if a turkey can shoot down a russian plane How do you fingerprint a turkey anyway  |
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2015, 09:33:17 AM » |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Anthony
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« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2015, 01:49:22 AM » |
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to make it even more surreal : there is no IS in that area.
that Russian SU24 was part of an offense against 'rebels' in Syria, of Turkmenistan origin.
those rebels are only a small group that has had success against fighting IS, but they are also fighting the current Syrian president Assad.
Russia wants to keep Assad, so they are supporting him by fighting all his enemies, not just only against IS.
Russia has already accused Turkey of supporting the Syrian 'rebels', but also of supporting IS (eg by buying its oil)
So yes, I believe Turkey only required a very small excuse to lauch against that fighter ; crossing their border for just a second was all they needed.
but to make it more complex : Turkey also fights the Koerds (remember the PKK), who are living in that same corner of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, ...
if Russia wants to retaliate against the terrorists that bombed a Russian airliner, they did not have to be in that area at all.
During his visit with the French president Hollande, last Friday, Putin has agreed to target IS and Al Qaeda.
I hope this means less support for Assad (who bombs his own civilians), and more war against IS.
Anthony
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