NOT repeat NOT a political post

[old2soon]

Here a while back Volkswagen screwed the pooch with their computer assisted pollution controls. Couple years ago my brother and I took a ride to Texas a bit south of San Antonio in his diesel V dub. Drove the snot out of it and consistently at or above 41 M P G. The "fix" V dub is talking about will drop the M P G into the mid 30s range. So here's my question-IF you burn more fuel to get a given distance aren't you in fact increasing air pollution? I am NOT an automotive engineer I am at best a shade tree mechanic. But just the simple math involved appears we will be adding pollution not decreasing it. Sides-V dubs problems are already political. RIDE SAFE.

[..]

I'm surprised it took so long for their cheating to be revealed.

I'da thought that other auto companies would have been reverse engineering the "miracle" V dub diesel to see how it worked. And finding out there was nothing special about the "miracle" engine.

How many other auto brands have used the same method of cheating?

Do we now trust the onboard computers that tell us when an oil change etc is needed or is that rigged as well making oil changes more or even possibly less frequent?

Do we trust the onboard mpg figures?

Surely they aren't in cahoots???

[MP]

Not necessarily. A 1960's car puts out many times the pollution, yet burns approximately the same fuel.   Within a factor of 2.  Pollution is probably 50-100 times more.

Yet, I am NOT taking our vw Jetta in to get work done, when the fix is ready.  My son, with another vw jetta, went to vw in Phoenix.  Manager there said he heard a complete engine redo.  $7000 per car to "fix" the problem!

Our vw will NOT see the insides of a vw approved service shop again!

[Robert]

If you read this company that discovered this is quite high on the engineering ladder and was probably paid for by the competition.

  Yes you will use more fuel and it will be questionable about the pollution weather it will pollute more or less. You would have to get into the engineering of the problem to fully understand the consequences. It will use more resources but that really doesn't matter they could give a dam if it cost you and me thousands more to keep the cars from polluting. Really the pollution from this is pretty minor on the scope of things. I pretty much laugh at the supposed turmoil at this.

 You mean everyone who bought a VW diesel because it was the very best for the environment or because its a good car with good mileage and doesn't cost an arm and leg to repair.

Modern day cars are 95% clean all this talk of electrics and gas running out is crap. To clean cars the other 5% will take tremendous amount of money from the mfg and from the consumer with the results being very questionable.

[da prez]

Prior to the vw s candle , our emission light came on. We are PO ED at our vw dealer From prior issues. We have an outside shop that is very good and honest. The diagnosed , and replaced the egr valve , and the light came on very soon. We dropped the car -a 2OO9 jetta California green diesel- and told them to keep it for as long as needed. They tried repeatedly to read out the computer. Fast  forward, we get the recall after we got the car back. He was unable to resolve the issue and checked other sources for help.We went back to him and told him to bill us for all his work as we know he did not charge us for everything they did. I will turn these bills into vw when the time arises. When he plugged into the computer , it went into bypass mode.  I found  company in Canada that has an exhaust with out a particulate filter and computer program to run the vw with more milage and performance. Yes , I need a particulate filter that cost about 17OO.OO dollars  or can be cleaned for 7OO.OO. We are doing nothing for now. In the near future , after recall repairs , all vw s will be tested
                                               da prez
         

[WintrSol]

The polluting gas is an oxide of nitrogen; the hotter the combustion gas, and the longer it stays that hot, the more of these oxides are produced. Under the same conditions, you are getting more energy from the fuel, so if you cool the engine down to reduce NOx, you also reduce efficiency, which is why you get fewer mpg. TANSTAAFL!

[dinosnake]

I'm surprised it took so long for their cheating to be revealed.

I'da thought that other auto companies would have been reverse engineering the "miracle" V dub diesel to see how it worked. And finding out there was nothing special about the "miracle" engine.

How many other auto brands have used the same method of cheating?

More than you'd like to admit, actually.

(trying to locate the link to the data, will update)

Ah, here it is!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device

GM and Ford have both, in the past, paid for 'cheating' and other companies push the limits, too.

[GiG]

I'm surprised it took so long for their cheating to be revealed.

I'da thought that other auto companies would have been reverse engineering the "miracle" V dub diesel to see how it worked. And finding out there was nothing special about the "miracle" engine.

How many other auto brands have used the same method of cheating?

More than you'd like to admit, actually.

(trying to locate the link to the data, will update)

Ah, here it is!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device

GM and Ford have both, in the past, paid for 'cheating' and other companies push the limits, too.

Actually, NOT the same actual method, at all.
The actual cases in the past were, whats known in the industry, as "specsmanship", where the manufacturer actually complies with the specification, the way the spec is actually written ie: testing is done with A/C OFF, therfefore it is OK to enrich fuel mixture when A/C is ON, actually.
Complying with the actual specification is NOT actually cheating  

VW actually cheated by having secret software that was hidden from the EPA, actually.

[dinosnake]

Actually, if you re-read the text, sometimes they did cheat by using, what the EPA specifically classifies as a "defeat device", in order to change the test outcome:

"Also in 1996, Ford reached a consent decree to spend $7.9 million to address a defeat device on 60,000 1997 model year Econoline vans which used a 'sophisticated electronic control strategy designed to enhance fuel economy', disabling NOx emissions controls while the vans were driven at highway speeds, a circumstance not occurring during lab testing to verify emissions control compliance." (emphasis mine)

In 1998, the EPA announced fines totaling $83.4 million against seven heavy truck manufacturers, the largest fine to date, which evaded testing by shutting down emissions controls during highway driving while appearing to be in compliance during lab testing. The seven, Caterpillar, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Mack Trucks, Navistar International, Renault Trucks, and Volvo Trucks, also agreed to spend more than $1 billion to correct the problem. (emphasis mine)

Those two are exactly what VW has been caught doing - making the vehicles perform one way during the testing and another way on the road.

[BigMac (SoCal)]

I have heard in California that if you don't get the recall done they will not renew your registration. I don't own one but I have a friend who does. He loves the car but is thinking about trading it in so he doesn't have to deal with it. With that been said I don't see him getting much for a trade in unless the recall is done anyway. Kind of a Catch 22 don't you think.