Flash!! Fox2 News

[dreamaker]

I was just watching Fox2 News Detroit, they have a program called Let it Rip! They get people Pro and Con on issues.  They had our Macomb County Sheriff and some women representing the ACLU on it. My first question is, when you apply to the ACLU do you have to go to the University of Dumbass, or are they just plain Stupid. Many of the police agencies have these vehicles, not sure of the exact term, assault vehicle, armored tank, not sure. Anyways our gov is making these agencies, I know for sure Macomb County Sheriff Dept. to return them to the feds, because people like the ACLU feel, citizens get intimidated by the vehicles and the LEO dress, because it looks military. WHAT THE F**K is going on in this country. Its like F**K YOU good citizen, your are infringing on the criminals RIGHTS! So basically the lady from the ACLU says, the LEO's fashion statement could be traumatizing to the people. Are they Fn Kidding! The LEO don't have the right to protect themselves in an extremely negative and dangerous situation, because it don't look good! What the hell!!  OR Please someone tell me I totally misunderstood everything I heard, and I am Mistaking, Please tell me SO!

[Patrick]

Well, I would just as soon have the bad guys traumatized. Really really traumatized.

[Momz]

I'll answer that.........people are STUPID!!!!

But with that said,...we also need to be vigilant, as law enforcement is (at times) overstepping their bounds.

[baldo]

It's a reaction to the way these vehicles, equipment and military style dress is being used in many cities around the country. I know this is going to chap some butts on here, but in many cases, this equipment has been misused by the police. If you do some Googling, you'll find instances where the MRAP style trucks are being used for traffic stops, for example. Simple noise complaints have these SWAT team assaults, in many cases people are being shot. Wrong address assaults with tragic results, etc. This is all part of the larger issue of bad police shootings.

Now don't go getting all twisted up, this is just an answer to a question. It's too damn early on a Sunday.

[dreamaker]

Couple of things. I was bought up to respect the Police, my father taught me to never lip off to police, no matter how pissy the get with me, and it has paid off. I have never had an altercation with a LEO. Now this is from experience also, keeping in mind we want to live. OK! Being confronted with someone with the same values, is negotiable, But when you are confronted by a person that is absolutely CRAZY and sticks a gun in you face, and they couldn't care less if you or they die. That is a pretty scary moment, now when you add to the mix, that your is your ultimate reward die, is to take out as many as you can in the process, now that is really scary. And now people like the ACLU and others, expect the LEO to enter conditions, basically with less protection and their pants down.  Makes no sense, LOOK! we are human beings and it is no excuse, but we have faults and many of them, nothing is 100%. So basically say, because it is not 100%, it must be at more risk to you, because you may have fault!

[solo1]

My conversation with our Chief of Police is surprising. No more SWAT teams. Looks too much like the military but mainly too slow to call in the SWAT.  His police officers are now trained to assess the situation, call for support, but react immediately.

I, personally, think back to the Waco incident where the AG overstepped her bounds and used the military against the citizens.  Seeing police decked out in full military gear makes me uneasy, even though most are there to protect us.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My conversation with our Chief of Police is surprising. No more SWAT teams. Looks too much like the military but mainly too slow to call in the SWAT.  His police officers are now trained to assess the situation, call for support, but react immediately.

I, personally, think back to the Waco incident where the AG overstepped her bounds and used the military against the citizens.  Seeing police decked out in full military gear makes me uneasy, even though most are there to protect us.

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

[Master Blaster]

My conversation with our Chief of Police is surprising. No more SWAT teams. Looks too much like the military but mainly too slow to call in the SWAT.  His police officers are now trained to assess the situation, call for support, but react immediately.

I, personally, think back to the Waco incident where the AG overstepped her bounds and used the military against the citizens.  Seeing police decked out in full military gear makes me uneasy, even though most are there to protect us.

My thoughts exactly.  There is a line that the police should not cross.  Over that line and they start to think and feel differently.  When the police get too military, the enemy becomes the public.

[fudgie]

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

That's normal tho. Fire and EMS get new stuff we want to use it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

That's normal tho. Fire and EMS get new stuff we want to use it.

I understand. I'm a little more comfortable with you using a new defibrillator on me than the cops swarming me with military equipment because my neighbor complained about my reggae music.

[RP#62]

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

That's normal tho. Fire and EMS get new stuff we want to use it.

I understand. I'm a little more comfortable with you using a new defibrillator on me than the cops swarming me with military equipment because my neighbor complained about my reggae music.

So you're the one.

-RP

[dreamaker]

My conversation with our Chief of Police is surprising. No more SWAT teams. Looks too much like the military but mainly too slow to call in the SWAT.  His police officers are now trained to assess the situation, call for support, but react immediately.

I, personally, think back to the Waco incident where the AG overstepped her bounds and used the military against the citizens.  Seeing police decked out in full military gear makes me uneasy, even though most are there to protect us.

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

I agree with you, they do use it!!!  They get home safely to their families!  We have to keep away from this "What IF or Maybe If" mind set speculations. Don't focus on exceptions or isolated issues, look at the big picture. Let me just talk stupid for a second, Let see!! The people are basically disarmed and the police force to protect them have had their armament removed. Bullets have no conscience.

Something I notice! I have watched many interviews and noted, that you are lower than dirt if you Snitch on anyone, but yet the people demand complete protection.  So with the police getting no cooperation, and gets it wrong, then the people want to hang them out to dry!!!!

[RDAbull]

I agree with this. Plus it seems once they have all this equipment they want to use it.

That's normal tho. Fire and EMS get new stuff we want to use it.

I understand. I'm a little more comfortable with you using a new defibrillator on me than the cops swarming me with military equipment because my neighbor complained about my reggae music.

Boy, I understand that.  I Play My Mozart too loud sometimes also.

I have always been very pro-LEO, 4 generations of them in my background.  Cops should be cops not Marines.  I'm not worried about traumatizing the public but I do worry about overreach of local small forces.

[dreamaker]

Ya! But when you become two legged targets, to the criminals (remember the cops being shot in their car in NY, for one) and no support from the public, what do you expect, this is not Disneyland this is for real.

[fudgie]

To me Id want to be and have the equipment more then a bad guy. We don't know what they have. You notice cops don't carry revolvers very much anymore. As technology advances so should the need for safety. Do you think SWAT medics should wear black and have a vest and knee pads or should they just there reflective vests and polyester pants. 

I cant wait for someone to say the FD are becoming militarized because they use Hummers. 

[solo1]

Brian, anything that the EMS and the fire departments use is to save lives is great.  More power to them if the budget allows.

Again, I feel uneasy to see cops looking like military.  you are absolutely right if you got it, you want to use it.

I trust my Chief of Police, he came up through the ranks with none of the political BS and PC that affects how cops do their jobs in the bigger cities.. He also says that cops should look like COPS, not military.

When cops get the attitude that its "Us against them!"  AND get decked out in military gear, that is not a good combination!   Big cities and the likes of Al Sharpton, that POS,  promote that attitude:   cops are human too.

I'll stay with my small town where the LEO's do their job dressed in blues.

[da prez]

  I am referring to the post about dress. A while back some (terrorist) were on trial in the U.S. and the prosecuters were told to dress in their countries clothing style to make them feel more comfortable in court.  You know , the same way they dress when they behead one of ours.
  I am sure glad that the executioner is wearing a tuxedo so I will not be uneasy during the wait.
  In my opinion the ACLU is a bunch of pansies that are against everything unless they need help because they do not get what they want. We have lost control of this Country because of everyone else's rights.  Go to Mexico , China ,Russia to name a few and demand your rights. G O O D L U C K W I T H T H A T !

                                                         da prez   

[dreamaker]

Its easy for us to compare opinions in the safety of our homes. I am not a LEO, or have been, so do LEO's make mistakes, Yes, are they perfect, No, do they have to make Split Second Decisions that may Change everyone's Lives, Yes. Think about it, we are outsiders, looking into the fish bowl, passing judgment on their safety. How many have you been stopped by LEO and had or got an attitude with them, over your bad choices you made.  Sure there are bad ones out there, but also there are a lot of good ones that want to just go home alive. Intimidation, no common sense, if I see a LEO looking like a storm trooper, first thing comes to mind, "Don't be Stupid"

[old2soon]

Its easy for us to compare opinions in the safety of our homes. I am not a LEO, or have been, so do LEO's make mistakes, Yes, are they perfect, No, do they have to make Split Second Decisions that may Change everyone's Lives, Yes. Think about it, we are outsiders, looking into the fish bowl, passing judgment on their safety. How many have you been stopped by LEO and had or got an attitude with them, over your bad choices you made.  Sure there are bad ones out there, but also there are a lot of good ones that want to just go home alive. Intimidation, no common sense, if I see a LEO looking like a storm trooper, first thing comes to mind, "Don't be Stupid"

          THAT "don't be stupid" part is what most of the brain lacking or brain dead people git WRONG. Last time I was stopped in my cage window down hands out window-BOTH HANDS-and only give them what the ask for-generally the paperwork. As I pulled over and stopped I put it in park turned off the engine and activated the 4-way flashers. When stopped on the M/C engine off hands on handle bars and I DO NOT even remove my helmet til I ask the L E O if I can remove helmet. If I'm packing I let them know. The L E O DID NOT pull you over to see if you want coffee or a donut!  Far as the "military" looking gear goes If it helps get the L E O home SAFELY I personally have no problem with it. I know even in our little Vil our Cops are wearing vests and rip stop clothing. And they do have assault weapons handy. Not ONLY do I live in the buckle of the Bible belt  LOT of meth gits cooked here bouts.  Simple-PAY ATTENTION when the L E O talks to you. RIDE SAFE.

[Chrisj CMA]

It's not out of line or over the top if the cops have similar or better yet a tad better than the bad guys.  If the bad guys have AR-15's than law enforcement needs them and armour that is an appropriate defense period

[Patrick]

" Don't be stupid "  Unfortunately that only goes just so far.  There is a whole lot of stupid going around right now.

If an officer tells me to do something I don't want to do or shouldn't really have to do, I'll still comply. And we'll sort through the problem later.

[old2soon]

" Don't be stupid "  Unfortunately that only goes just so far.  There is a whole lot of stupid going around right now.

If an officer tells me to do something I don't want to do or shouldn't really have to do, I'll still comply. And we'll sort through the problem later.

             PERZACKLY.    RIDE SAFE.

[Moonshot_1]

It's a reaction to the way these vehicles, equipment and military style dress is being used in many cities around the country. I know this is going to chap some butts on here, but in many cases, this equipment has been misused by the police. If you do some Googling, you'll find instances where the MRAP style trucks are being used for traffic stops, for example. Simple noise complaints have these SWAT team assaults, in many cases people are being shot. Wrong address assaults with tragic results, etc. This is all part of the larger issue of bad police shootings.

Now don't go getting all twisted up, this is just an answer to a question. It's too damn early on a Sunday.

How is a "wrong address assault" the problem with MRAP style truck? Bad on board GPS?

[baldo]

It's a reaction to the way these vehicles, equipment and military style dress is being used in many cities around the country. I know this is going to chap some butts on here, but in many cases, this equipment has been misused by the police. If you do some Googling, you'll find instances where the MRAP style trucks are being used for traffic stops, for example. Simple noise complaints have these SWAT team assaults, in many cases people are being shot. Wrong address assaults with tragic results, etc. This is all part of the larger issue of bad police shootings.

Now don't go getting all twisted up, this is just an answer to a question. It's too damn early on a Sunday.

How is a "wrong address assault" the problem with MRAP style truck? Bad on board GPS?

It's all part of the whole picture. Cops geared up like Marines in Iraq or Afghanistan. Sorry, I thought that was clear..... 

[Oss]

We are discussing at least two totally separate issues and good points have been made

law enforcement may have been fed wrong information to execute a Warrant  leading to the deaths of the  innocent  occupants of a dwelling that would be otherwise protected  The purpose of the warrant process is to protect the innocent occupant of a residence.  A Warrant is not to be a rubber stamp, it is to be based on reliable information. Therein the rub.

If an LEO dies at the hand of the occupant defending his or her family on a raid fed by wrong information I feel bad for all concerned the LEO and the occupants both as both lose
If an occupant dies at the hand of the LEO and the address was wrong I likewise feel bad for all concerned as both again lose
A tragedy is just that

Now the other point
If pork politics gives police in bumfuk nebraska a swat vehicle and a few million rounds to go with the auto weapons, night vision gear and grenades to handle a town of 23 we have a problem  A big one.
It is the crazy doling out of pork when what homeland should be doing is protecting the border  Under this and the last administration we must admit pork is doled out so stupidly  What accountability does homeland security have to we the people?

That to me is the bigger question

I think fostering a climate in which all sides of our America can show respect to the other's right to exist must be the start point.  Who can do that I dont know. I am not running This country is not ready to elect a Jew unless he is a black woman  I enjoy my secretary auditions too much to go the Kaitlin Jenner route anyway (thats a joke son)

Perhaps a start point might be locking away criminals whether illegal or legally here who insist on using guns to commit their crimes and not letting them loose on the general population.

just my two cents

[fudgie]

It's not out of line or over the top if the cops have similar or better yet a tad better than the bad guys.  If the bad guys have AR-15's than law enforcement needs them and armour that is an appropriate defense period

+1 

[Pappy!]

Am a staunch conservative that believes that local police departments do not need military vehicles to carry out their job.

[G-Man]

Maybe cops should dress like this:

[Patrick]

Maybe cops should dress like this:

Been to Key West I see.   

[baldo]

Maybe cops should dress like this:

Well, if you like that kind of thing.... Not that there's anything wrong with that....

[Hooter]

We have one in my department and my tactical guys use it in certain situations. It's the same as a swat vehicle. Hostage situations, bank robbery's, bomb scare etc: Any situation that may require the use of that vehicle and it carries the proper tactical equipment. Joe crap the rag man can shoot this thing all he wants to without any damage to the vehicle or injury to the occupants. And yes, it is an intimidating vehicle which it is SUPPOSED TO BE.       ACLU is as bad as the tree huggers, gun rights activist, and PETA.