New Gun control measures

[wiggydotcom]

I believe I heard Obama say if these new Executive Actions enable even one life to be saved, it will be worth it.

I can't help but wonder how many lives could be saved if gun free zones were eliminated(or greatly reduced). It seems that most all the shooting incidences he "cried" over involved gun free zones. How many of those past deaths could have been avoided by an armed law abiding citizen exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?

[Wizzard]

https://www.facebook.com/AM560TheAnswer/photos/a.250711908301721.63709.160864997286413/1064211870285050/?type=3

Gun control will lower  crime rates just like his "obama care" lowered your insurance premiums

Carson said it best "any executive order President Obama signs that regulates firearms transactions will merely regulate the behavior of law abiding citizens. Criminals who commit crimes with guns will continue to operate outside of the law. These actions have everything to do with advancing the President's political agenda and little to do with actually protecting American citizens."

[Wizzard]

Actually I think they need to ban the whole state of Idaho because when you lay it on its side it looks like a gun.

[RP#62]

Actually I think they need to ban the whole state of Idaho because when you lay it on its side it looks like a gun.

 

-RP

[Master Blaster]

What a production,  everything about it was carefully choreographed including the tears, the attendees, the artificial responses, and especially the lies and half truths.  Who really believes that most gun owners are behind him on this, or that he respects and believes in the 2nd amendment.  I could go on, but I am getting a queasy feeling.  How many more times are they going to drag out Giffords as a prop for their agenda???   Really slick and slimy dontcha think.

[Pete]

But some tell us that Oboohooo would never lie to us!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MacDragon]

One of his last statements he made was that it is happening on the streets of Chicago every day...  Doesn't he know that Chicago has the stiffest gun policy in the country besides Washington DC???  Lot of good it's doing there.!!!
Proves it doesn't work.

[Ramie]

It's all PR, he really didn't change much.  All he wants is to make second amendment proponents look like a bunch of extremists to those who are afraid of the sight of a gun.

[Safety Steve]

This is getting to a point that we need to do something about Obama, he need to be taken out of office and tried for treason, he is trying to disarm and ameircan public, this is not right.  He has made this country weak, and the PC of this country is killing us, no we can't pray in our public schools, this is bull crap.
I just can't believe that he lasted this long as our POUS.

[MP]

He cited a number of shooting incidents in his speech.  NONE, not one, of them would have been prevented by what he is implementing.  What a liar.

[..]

READ ALL BEFORE COMMENTING

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Boston – National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed by elements of a Para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.

Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group’s organizers as “criminals,” issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government’s efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons.

Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that “none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily.”

Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government’s plans.

During a tense standoff in the Lexington town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists.

Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.

Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as “ringleaders” of the extremist faction, remain at large.

And this fellow Americans, is how the American Revolution began, April 20, 1775.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It's all PR, he really didn't change much.  All he wants is to make second amendment proponents look like a bunch of extremists to those who are afraid of the sight of a gun.

EXACTLY !!! He hasn't done crap in 7 years. I think Serk might be right. He is a secret lobbyist for the gun industry.

This is getting to a point that we need to do something about Obama, he need to be taken out of office and tried for treason, he is trying to disarm and ameircan public, this is not right.  He has made this country weak, and the PC of this country is killing us, no we can't pray in our public schools, this is bull crap.
I just can't believe that he lasted this long as our POUS.

Obama stopped prayer in schools ?

[Serk]

I think Serk might be right.

January 6th, 2016... Marking this date on my calendar... The day meathead said something correct! 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think Serk might be right.

January 6th, 2016... Marking this date on my calendar... The day meathead said something correct! 

touché my friend, touché 

[Jess from VA]

Very nice post Paul.   

A simple history lesson. 

[CajunRider]

How many of those past deaths could have been avoided by an armed law abiding citizen exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?

Not an exact answer... but it'll give you a good idea of what that number might be. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425802/gun-free-zones-don't-save-lives-right-to-carry-laws-do

[wiggydotcom]

How many of those past deaths could have been avoided by an armed law abiding citizen exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?

Not an exact answer... but it'll give you a good idea of what that number might be. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425802/gun-free-zones-don't-save-lives-right-to-carry-laws-do

CajunRider, thanks for that article. It was very interesting. I do recall another case but can't remember the specifics, where a shooter had already killed multiple victims but when an ordinary citizen either produced a gun--or actually took a shot in the direction of the shooter, the shooter quickly turned the gun on himself and took his own life.

I've seen it many times in YouTube videos(mainly of liquor/convenience store robberies) where the robbers don't like to be shot at themselves. They hightail it pretty quickly.

[G-Man]

It's all PR, he really didn't change much.  All he wants is to make second amendment proponents look like a bunch of extremists to those who are afraid of the sight of a gun.

It's gone past that already.  They're afraid when they HEAR about a gun, they don't even have to see one.

Spent a night at Mark (Mad6Gun) and Twila's house last June on the way to Inzane.  Marc showed me his collection.    Man were they beautiful!  As I was telling this to my brainwashed college senior of a daughter, her head began to shake left and right and her face looked like she was force fed a lemon.  Just from hearing about a gun collection 600 miles away.

[Serk]

It's all PR, he really didn't change much.  All he wants is to make second amendment proponents look like a bunch of extremists to those who are afraid of the sight of a gun.

It's gone past that already.  They're afraid when they HEAR about a gun, they don't even have to see one.

Spent a night at Mark (Mad6Gun) and Twila's house last June on the way to Inzane.  Pistol on the kitchen table and a really nice gunshop in the den.  One by one the rifles and pistols came out, even a Tommy Gun.  Man were they beautiful!  As I was telling this to my brainwashed college senior of a daughter, her head began to shake left and right and her face looked like she was force fed a lemon.  Just from hearing about a gun collection 600 miles away.

Yup... Few years back had some friends visit from Australia, at first she was excited about getting to shoot some guns, but when I started getting them out of the safes to take to the range, as soon as she saw 'em she started crying hysterically... I thought it was a joke at first, it was very... odd...

[Jess from VA]

If you demonize anything early (grade school) and long enough, you can probably program people to fear or hate almost anything. 

[..]

English friend here had another Englishman visit over Christmas. Visitor was retired and worked in Hong Kong and Singapore for the past 25 years. We were sitting talking when an American friend showed us a photo of his new AR15. The visiting Englishman went white and I thought was close to fainting. This because of a photo of as he put it "an assault rifle".

Tried to explain it wasn't a machine gun and that it was black cause that's what the public had been sold as a styling trend. Nope, didn't work it was a deadly assault rifle.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

An NFA trust attorney I know says he is still reading through the 250 some pages of new regs. The main thing he sees so far is the new requirements are probably going to stop electronic filling of Form 1 apps. This part of the king's proclamation takes effect in 180 days. I'm hoping to scrap up $200 and get another form 1 in progress within the next week or two.

[Serk]

An NFA trust attorney I know says he is still reading through the 250 some pages of new regs. The main thing he sees so far is the new requirements are probably going to stop electronic filling of Form 1 apps. This part of the king's proclamation takes effect in 180 days. I'm hoping to scrap up $200 and get another form 1 in progress within the next week or two.

The really ironic bit is that while making trust form 4's and form 1's more onerous (I gotta get the spousal unit to submit fingerprint cards and passport photos, or remove her as a trustee, on any future transfers) but.... from my reading of it, they've removed the (Impossible for many of us to get) CLEO sign off requirement from individual transfers, making THOSE much easier to get.

However, for estate planning purposes the trust transfer is still the preferred method if you don't want your heirs to have to deal with a bunch of ATF crap when you check out...

I'll admit, I've been itching to toss some SBR Form 1's into the queue just because, but I've got time still. Would probably stick to paper form 1's though, I want a real stamp at the end of the process, even if it takes longer to acquire.

[Serk]

Oops.... Seems the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-person-obtain-dealer%E2%80%99s-license-engage-business-only-gun-shows

[Solorider]

Another law to ignore........Question do any of you travel the speed limit ?.......I get to a point in my life when I have to do what I have to do ..........Dam the torpedoes....... Loud
pipes saves life's, A pistol is next

I hope the law suites hold this up until we have a new commander in chief......Trying to stay peaceful.  

 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

English friend here had another Englishman visit over Christmas. Visitor was retired and worked in Hong Kong and Singapore for the past 25 years. We were sitting talking when an American friend showed us a photo of his new AR15. The visiting Englishman went white and I thought was close to fainting. This because of a photo of as he put it "an assault rifle".

Tried to explain it wasn't a machine gun and that it was black cause that's what the public had been sold as a styling trend. Nope, didn't work it was a deadly assault rifle.

One of my nephews who is a university manager (don't know his exact title) came to visit us for Christmas this year. When I was showing him some of our firearms including my hunting AR and a couple of pistols hidden in plain sight he said "this is how Europeans think American's live". I've been giggling about it ever since. 

[Serk]

And of course, this is the Republic of Texas version:

[Jess from VA]

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."  - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."  - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."  - William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms…  "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."  - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."  - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

[MP]

Now you've done it, Jess! Quoting all those right wing terrorists!   

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."  - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."  - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."  - William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms…  "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."  - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."  - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Many thanks for that Jess. I was not familiar with the quote from William Pitt and any day that starts with the words of our Founders is a good day!

[..]

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."  - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."  - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."  - William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms…  "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."  - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."  - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Many thanks for that Jess. I was not familiar with the quote from William Pitt and any day that starts with the words of our Founders is a good day!

Bill Pitt was a Limey.

[CajunRider]

I've done this before...   

Well... not exactly (I was sitting next to my tent)... but Close! 

I have to say I've never pulled off the "Texas Version".  Will have to work on that.    

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."  - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."  - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."  - William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms…  "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."  - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."  - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Many thanks for that Jess. I was not familiar with the quote from William Pitt and any day that starts with the words of our Founders is a good day!

Bill Pitt was a Limey.

Yep. Became Prime Minister at the tender age of 24. I looked him up as soon as I read the post because I wasn't familiar with the name. In-spite of that his words may become my new E mail signature.

[wiggydotcom]

If guns are to blame, this might put the argument a little more into perspective.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

If guns are to blame, this might put the argument a little more into perspective.

That strikes home for me. I come from a family of gun-owners and hunters. Every drawer in the house I grew up in seemed to have a few .22LR rounds floating around in it somewhere. In spite that, no gun deaths in injuries so far, but I've lost a Son and my Dad due to medical misadventures.

[wiggydotcom]

If guns are to blame, this might put the argument a little more into perspective.

That strikes home for me. I come from a family of gun-owners and hunters. Every drawer in the house I grew up in seemed to have a few .22LR rounds floating around in it somewhere. In spite that, no gun deaths in injuries so far, but I've lost a Son and my Dad due to medical misadventures.

Sadly, it happens too often despite most physicians/surgeons being very good. My condolences, Frye. As far as the .22, my Dad took my brother and myself down to Montgomery Wards when I was 12 years old and he allowed us to buy our first guns with our paper route earnings....identical .22 bolt action rifles. I learned gun safety before I could shoot it. After I did, I was shooting my own rifle at that young age. Btw, the rifles were 15 bucks earch...in 1967.